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Author Topic: Could vitamin D kill viruses?  (Read 84141 times)

Offline iko

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Could vitamin D kill viruses?
« Reply #25 on: 03/04/2009 16:14:20 »
...
Having high or repleat levels of Vit D and being deficianet in others will affect any hypothesis that Vit D is the key to immne health.  


No key role or major discovery..."a new weapon to kill the enemies".   :D ;D ;D
I thought we were discussing about a possible contribution, help to our immune defense.
Just that.
"Could vitamin D kill viruses?" is the title/question in this thread.
Sunlight is free, vitamin D3 very cheap, and many people and patients show a deficiency/insufficiency condition.
This is what vitamindcouncil.com is all about.
I enjoy citation cut&paste: good reading (perfect English!), nice pieces of concentrated peer-reviewed science.
Short bits of knowledge to share with others...in seconds.  For a nice and peaceful discussion.

ikoD





Iko if you are going to cite papers, please read them first. Simply posting extract from journals, no matter how well researched is not enough ( for me anyhow)


BTW I read Jorg Reichrath's 2006 article, it's relatively short and concise.
This review is even better and more recent!

Exp Dermatol. 2007 Jul;16(7):618-25.
Vitamin D and the skin: an ancient friend, revisited.
Reichrath J.
Klinik für Dermatologie, Venerologie und Allergologie, Universitätsklinikum des Saarlandes, Homburg/Saar, Germany. hajrei@uniklinik-saarland.de


« Last Edit: 09/05/2009 13:55:47 by iko »
 

Offline Yomi

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Could vitamin D kill viruses?
« Reply #26 on: 04/04/2009 11:58:02 »
no Viruses of some kind have abnormal structures of their body. proteins may be a a good killer of viruses than vitamins i think..
 

Offline Bored chemist

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Could vitamin D kill viruses?
« Reply #27 on: 04/04/2009 18:43:08 »
While talking about the hypothetical influence of low ante-natal levels of vitamin D on the rates of autism surely you ought to menation that the stuff is a known teratogen.

Also, I'm puzzled- standards of ntrition have ben improving over the years- in particular people's consumption of fatty foods and, presumably, fat soluble vitamins has increased- so why is the rate of incidence of autism increasing?
 

Offline iko

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Could vitamin D kill viruses?
« Reply #28 on: 05/04/2009 00:16:49 »
While talking about the hypothetical influence of low ante-natal levels of vitamin D on the rates of autism surely you ought to menation that the stuff is a known teratogen.

Also, I'm puzzled- standards of ntrition have ben improving over the years- in particular people's consumption of fatty foods and, presumably, fat soluble vitamins has increased- so why is the rate of incidence of autism increasing?

Most of the hormone/vitamin-D comes from sunlight exposure, not from the diet.
This is rather peculiar for a cofactor...making the whole issue more complex.





If you go out in the sun for about 10 minutes your skin produces maybe 20,000 IU; the average pill has about 200-400 IU in it, dietary sources are much lower. Skin self limits, but pills don't. But I think the studies seem to say you can take up to about ~20,000 IU without any known long term harm at all. I think about 100,000 IU/day would put you in hospital... eventually.

Only a few food sources (mainly oily fish) give only a few hundred IU per portion, and most foods give none at all. There's only about a dozen common foods that have any significant vitamin D in at all. Eggs, 20 IU, you would have to eat 5 eggs a day to get up to your daily requirement.

Hi wolfekeeper,

I agree with you.
Vitamin D is not a 'real' vitamin, a cofactor that you get from your diet.
It is a steroid hormone, produced by our skin through sunlight exposure.
Difficult to measure (nanograms per mL in the circulating blood), it's coming late as a wonderful agent, able to control the function of over 200 genes.
Recent research results are quite promising, and its anti-infective properties (through antibiotic peptides production) have been defined only 4-5 years ago.
The old cod liver oil given to TB patients in the last century is finally scientifically proven as a treatment support!


« Last Edit: 05/04/2009 00:43:07 by iko »
 

Offline kathforscience

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Could vitamin D kill viruses?
« Reply #29 on: 05/04/2009 17:23:18 »
Also, I'm puzzled- standards of ntrition have ben improving over the years- in particular people's consumption of fatty foods and, presumably, fat soluble vitamins has increased- so why is the rate of incidence of autism increasing?

It could be that we are getting better at recognising autism, not that more people are developing autism. The official numbers go up but the same number of people are affected.
 

Variola

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Could vitamin D kill viruses?
« Reply #30 on: 05/04/2009 20:48:20 »
Quote
It could be that we are getting better at recognising autism, not that more people are developing autism. The official numbers go up but the same number of people are affected.

Definately, also if you follow the mercury linked hypothesis that sparked the scare over MMR jabs, the level of mercury pollution is higher than was previously thought, so that might account for the seeming rise in cases. Plus some disorders are first diagnosed as Autism because they show similar phenotype, but are in fact subsequently rediagnosed as something else.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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Could vitamin D kill viruses?
« Reply #31 on: 05/04/2009 22:13:54 »
I thought that a man with a patent on a new vaccine started the MMR scare ratrher than any concern about mercury.

I accept that the number of diagnosed cases might be due to different diagnosis but doesn't that make it rather hard to pin down anything as the cause for it?

Also (as I pointed out a few posts back) the fact that sunlight is a major contributor to vitamin D productioon will make things complicarted.

But I'd still like you all to explain how come the virus  survived for decades in my sun loving aunt in South Africa. She must have been awash with the stuff- it it kills viruses why didn't it work? If it's because the skin shuts down production at levels too low to kill the viruses then what happenefd to evolution?
An individual with a mutation that led to higher levels of vitamin D (for a given amount of sunshine) ought to be less susceptible to viral disease. That's a very strong evolutionary pressure. Something must have held vitamin D production in check. Perhaps it's because at levels where it's toxic to viruses it's also toxic to people. For example, perhaps the documented teratogenicity was more important than some minor effect on viral disease.
 

Variola

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Could vitamin D kill viruses?
« Reply #32 on: 06/04/2009 16:22:14 »
Quote
I thought that a man with a patent on a new vaccine started the MMR scare ratrher than any concern about mercury.

Well that could have been the 'real' reason! But the supposed concern was that MMR contained Thimerosal as a preservative, which happened to have a slgtly higher mercury content than the single vaccines which contained a different preservative. But since everyone is exposed to small amounts of mercury in the environment and food, assessing the actualy lever of exposure of any individual is impossible.
They recommend that pregnant women limit their intake of deep sea fish like tuna and marlin now due to pollution levels found inside the fish.

Quote
But I'd still like you all to explain how come the virus  survived for decades in my sun loving aunt in South Africa. She must have been awash with the stuff- it it kills viruses why didn't it work? If it's because the skin shuts down production at levels too low to kill the viruses then what happenefd to evolution?

I can't because I don't think that any link between the level of vit D and the ability to fight infwction is anywhere near as linear or simple as people would like it to be.
 

Offline Kevan Gelling

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Could vitamin D kill viruses?
« Reply #33 on: 15/04/2009 14:38:39 »
Thanks for the comments.  I was particularly interested with information from Iko about a similar hypothesis has already been published in a scientific journal (although Iko's posting has since disappeared).

The question was highly speculative; I sent it to the Naked Scientists by email and they choose to post it on the forum.  Interestingly, they said that the topic would be covered in a future programme, although they didn't say whether it would be a programme about vitamin D (yes please) or viruses or something else.

My question really concerned the link between viruses and major diseases.  I suggested vitamin D only as a means to identify which diseases are caused by viruses.  There may be a better way#

#DeRisi Labs have created a "ViroChip" that can identify previously unknown viruses and have used it to find a virus in prostate cancer tumors (incidentally.prostate cancer and vitamin D have been linked - Vitamin D pill for prostate cancer)


 

Offline iko

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Could vitamin D kill viruses?
« Reply #34 on: 16/04/2009 22:17:36 »

Thanks for the comments.  I was particularly interested with information from Iko about a similar hypothesis has already been published in a scientific journal (although Iko's posting has since disappeared).

Hide & seek!
If you are really interested, you may find it easily enough: just search for "vitamin d" right in this forum!  ;)
Enjoy.

ikoD
« Last Edit: 16/04/2009 22:25:15 by iko »
 

Offline iko

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Could vitamin D kill viruses?
« Reply #35 on: 14/05/2009 11:11:18 »
New "hints" for this topic:
TBbacteria are not viruses -I know- but intracellular germs, difficult to eradicate.
Obviously "further studies" are needed...

Vitamin D as Adjunctive Therapy in Refractory Pulmonary Tuberculosis: A Case Report.



Yamshchikov AV, Oladele A, Leonard MK Jr, Blumberg HM, Ziegler TR, Tangpricha V.
From the Division of Infectious Diseases, Department of Medicine, Emory University-School of Medicine, Atlanta, GA; Central Dekalb County Health Center TB Control Program, Dekalb County Board of Health, Georgia Department of Human Resources, Decatur, GA; and Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism, and Lipids, Department of Medicine, Emory University-School of Medicine, Atlanta, GA.

Vitamin D regulates calcium homeostasis in the body and may play a major role in regulating immune responses to tuberculosis (TB). Pilot studies suggest that vitamin D supplementation may improve outcomes in pulmonary TB (PTB), but clinical evidence using vitamin D in TB treatment is limited. We present a case of vitamin D deficiency in a woman with refractory drug-susceptible PTB. Antituberculous therapy and the correction of vitamin D deficiency resulted in clinical and microbiologic improvement at month 13 of her treatment. The basis for vitamin D/TB interactions and a brief literature review are discussed. Data from controlled trials are needed to evaluate the efficacy of vitamin D as adjunctive TB therapy.

South Med J. 2009 May 7. [Epub ahead of print]

 

Offline Kevan Gelling

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Could vitamin D kill viruses?
« Reply #36 on: 23/06/2009 14:17:41 »
golddina, www.vitaminsdeficiency.org is a vitamin shop and uses a lot of unsubstantiated hyperbole (in order to sells it vitamins, I presume).  You should take its declarations with a pinch of salt.
 

Offline wolfekeeper

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Could vitamin D kill viruses?
« Reply #37 on: 23/06/2009 15:04:41 »
While talking about the hypothetical influence of low ante-natal levels of vitamin D on the rates of autism surely you ought to menation that the stuff is a known teratogen.
What is this garbage? Vitamin D isn't a teratogen.

Vitamin *A* is a significant teratogen, and you could fairly easily reach toxicity from vitamin A in cod liver oil etc. Vitamin D just isn't.

Do you really not know the difference between vitamin A and D?
 

Offline Bored chemist

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Could vitamin D kill viruses?
« Reply #38 on: 23/06/2009 19:33:57 »
While talking about the hypothetical influence of low ante-natal levels of vitamin D on the rates of autism surely you ought to menation that the stuff is a known teratogen.
What is this garbage? Vitamin D isn't a teratogen.

Vitamin *A* is a significant teratogen, and you could fairly easily reach toxicity from vitamin A in cod liver oil etc. Vitamin D just isn't.

Do you really not know the difference between vitamin A and D?


I know the difference. I also know a similarity.

"Excess maternal; vitamin D intake or extreme sensitivity to the vitamin has been shown to cause some congenital birth defects. "
from here.
http://www.prn2.usm.my/mainsite/bulletin/sun/1996/sun44.html

Similarly
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=KZcOqBM-wVMC&pg=PA667&lpg=PA667&dq=%22vitamin+d%22+%22birth+defects%22&source=bl&ots=mAX7YwnZ5C&sig=ME9HI4vGAy-35Y2-CLI66j4oL6I&hl=en&ei=fR5BSuWQD8ihjAeyiYCiCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7

says the same sort of thing.

You might want to reappraise your assertion that this is garbage.
 

Offline wolfekeeper

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Could vitamin D kill viruses?
« Reply #39 on: 23/06/2009 20:05:30 »
That's at a dose of 10,000 IU per KILOGRAM (of the mother, so over 500,000 IU)!!!!

The normal RDA is about 200 IU per person!

These are stupendous doses, 2500 pills- about 20 whole bottles of vitamin pills!!!

By comparison, vitamin A, the normal RDA is about 5000 IU, whereas toxicity can start at about 15,000 IU.

From your second link: "However, Forbes (1979) replied editorially to this report that the animal experiments were not germane to the human situation due to the exaggerated doses required to produce the lesions"
« Last Edit: 23/06/2009 20:28:23 by wolfekeeper »
 

Offline Bored chemist

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Could vitamin D kill viruses?
« Reply #40 on: 23/06/2009 22:07:04 »
So, when it comes down to it the stuff is, as I said, teratogenic.
 

Offline wolfekeeper

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Could vitamin D kill viruses?
« Reply #41 on: 23/06/2009 22:26:43 »
Absolutely not, it has no proven, nor practical human teratogenicity.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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Could vitamin D kill viruses?
« Reply #42 on: 24/06/2009 06:53:46 »
Thankfully, proven human teratogens are rare. We try to avoid the experiments that proof would need.
The stuff is teratogenic in other animals.
 

Offline rhade

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Could vitamin D kill viruses?
« Reply #43 on: 24/06/2009 10:12:42 »
I think the very short answer is, if vitamin D did kill viruses, surely it would be widely prescribed for the purpose.
 

Offline wolfekeeper

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Could vitamin D kill viruses?
« Reply #44 on: 24/06/2009 14:02:20 »
I'm sure it has no direct attack on viruses or bacteria at any useful level. Vitamin D is a hormone that controls calcium and phosphate levels in higher organisms blood streams. Bacteria and viruses don't even have blood streams.
 

Offline iko

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Could vitamin D kill viruses?
« Reply #45 on: 25/06/2009 10:28:28 »
I'm sure it has no direct attack on viruses or bacteria at any useful level. Vitamin D is a hormone that controls calcium and phosphate levels in higher organisms blood streams. Bacteria and viruses don't even have blood streams.

...did anybody read about cathelicidin and other antibiotic peptides?   ???
Interestingly enough, it is a rather recent discovery (less than 10yrs).
You might even enjoy some Michael Holick's paper or video:

It's never too late (sometimes)...
If you followed this thread so far,
you deserve to watch this free video:

"The Vitamin D Pandemic and its Health Consequences"

Presented by Michael Holick, PhD, MD, Professor of medicine, physiology and biophysics
and director of the General Clinical Research Center at Boston University Medical Center
Keynote address at the opening ceremony of the 34th European Symposium on Calcified Tissues, Copenhagen 5 May, 2007



« Last Edit: 26/06/2009 11:11:31 by iko »
 

Offline iko

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Offline iko

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Could vitamin D kill viruses?
« Reply #47 on: 05/08/2009 11:30:57 »
Hey, something is 'moving' on D-vitamin-flu connection side...  ;)

Health agency to test link between flu, vitamin D

« Last Edit: 05/08/2009 11:42:52 by iko »
 

Offline Kevan Gelling

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Could vitamin D kill viruses?
« Reply #48 on: 12/08/2009 13:10:31 »
Quote

CONCLUSIONS

The increasing numbers of reports of rickets in Western industrialized nations are related to the practice of exclusive breastfeeding without concomitant vitamin D supplementation in northern latitudes, decreased UV-B exposure (particularly in dark-skinned people), and the excessive use of sunscreen.

Recommendations for vitamin D supplementation in breastfed infants should take into account skin pigmentation and geography.

Recommendations for fortification of commonly used foods with vitamin D are necessary in keeping with various cultural norms of food intake and geography.

Current recommendations of sun exposure and vitamin D supplementation are limited because of a paucity of studies in children, nonuniformity of 25(OH)-D assays used in research studies, and lack of uniformity in the description of normal and abnormal ranges for 25(OH)-D levels in children.

More studies are necessary in children using standard assays to determine safe levels of sun exposure and resultant vitamin D levels, as well as the 25(OH)-D levels below which pathologic changes begin. A low threshold for assessing vitamin D sufficiency in infants, children, and adolescents is recommended given the growing knowledge about effects of vitamin D not only on bone mineral metabolism but also on the immune system and in preventing various kinds of cancer.

Data indicate greater health care costs from diseases related to vitamin D deficiency than from those caused by excessive exposure to UVR, indicating the need for a reexamination of recommendations for sun-avoidant behavior, including the use of sunscreens.
 

Offline Kevan Gelling

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Could vitamin D kill viruses?
« Reply #49 on: 01/09/2009 13:16:22 »
Here are the new stories:

Here are some Vitamin D research links:


Quote

ABSTRACT

Aims To determine if there is a worldwide seasonal pattern in the clinical onset of Type 1 diabetes.

Methods Analysis of the seasonality in diagnosis of Type 1 diabetes was based on the incidence data in 0- to 14-year-old children collected by the World Health Organization Diabetes Mondiale (WHO DiaMond) Project over the period 19901999. One hundred and five centres from 53 countries worldwide provided enough data for the seasonality analysis. The incidence seasonality patterns were also determined for age- and sex-specific groups.

Results Forty-two out of 105 centres exhibited significant seasonality in the incidence of Type 1 diabetes (P < 0.05). The existence of significant seasonal patterns correlated with higher level of incidence and of the average yearly counts. The correlation disappeared after adjustment for latitude. Twenty-eight of those centres had peaks in October to January and 33 had troughs in June to August. Two out of the four centres with significant seasonality in the southern hemisphere demonstrated a different pattern with a peak in July to September and a trough in January to March.

Conclusions The seasonality of the incidence of Type 1 diabetes mellitus in children under 15 years of age is a real phenomenon, as was reported previously and as is now demonstrated by this large standardized study. The seasonality pattern appears to be dependent on the geographical position, at least as far as the northern/southern hemisphere dichotomy is concerned. However, more data are needed on the populations living below the 30th parallel north in order to complete the picture.


The research highlights a seasonal (winter is worse) and a geographical (further away from equator is worse) link to diabetes 1.  In other words when/where sunlight is weaker.

An analysis of the science can be found on the NHS's Behind The Headlines
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Could vitamin D kill viruses?
« Reply #49 on: 01/09/2009 13:16:22 »

 

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