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Author Topic: Gamma Ray Bursters  (Read 6024 times)

Offline chimera

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Gamma Ray Bursters
« on: 30/05/2005 20:41:23 »
Could Gamma Ray Bursters be black holes blowing themselves off through runaway Hawking radiation? Compared to the x-ray deluge outside of a black hole, Hawking radiation is supposed to be negligible almost. What causes and 'feeds' the xrays in the accretion disk though, is not exactly known.

My theory is that virtual particles created at the edge of the black hole are still related to each other, much like the particles used in quantum cryptography.

One of these particles is captured by the black hole, the other shoots of into space, in the form of Hawking radiation.

Well, not really into space. It gets a warm welcome in the form of high energy particles already abundantly in place. Now this leads to a very high probability of a collision of this escaped particle, leading to a forced change of spin.

The particle inside the black hole, although very surprised at this supposedly impossible intrusion, is forced to oblige under quantum rules and also suddenly finds himself in a different situation inside the black hole, possibly setting off another virtual pair creation.

If this effect starts to develop a positive feedback through simply crossing a certain limit, probably to do with size and mass, the Hawking radiation is no longer negligible, but a runaway process stripping the black hole of most of its mass in a very short time.

RFC please



 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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Re: Gamma Ray Bursters
« Reply #1 on: 31/05/2005 14:49:56 »
Interesting. Certainly, it would seem to me, the space around the black hole would be filled to a higher density than elsewhere in space as a result of the gravitational pull of the black hole. That means a particle collision would be more likely.
I like the idea of the particle inside the black hole being "very surprised at this supposedly impossible intrusion" - like goosing a female, eh! heh :D
Now, my questions would be these - would there be any room inside the black hole for the particle to cause the creation of another pair of particles? And if they were created actually inside the black hole, could 1 escape? I thought Hawking radiation was the result of particles being created at the event horizon. Also, as far as I'm aware, it's quantum fluctuations that cause the creation of particle pairs not something caused by an already-existing particle.
« Last Edit: 31/05/2005 14:51:49 by DoctorBeaver »
 

Offline gsmollin

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Re: Gamma Ray Bursters
« Reply #2 on: 31/05/2005 17:33:39 »
Some researchers suspect that the very short GRB radiation could be from primeval black holes that are exploding in this epoch of the universe. Other researchers believe it is large stars going supernovae, or neutron stars collapsing to black holes. The latter could be a "standard candle" GRB event, if it is true.

Some of the difficulty is because there seems to be more than one type of GRB event, just as there is more than one type of supernova. With better gamma ray telescopes, researchers will be able to quantify the energy releases, and may be able to classify them. If some GRB events are exploding black holes, they will occur over a very narrow range of energy, since the black holes will all go critical at the same mass.
 

Offline chimera

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Re: Gamma Ray Bursters
« Reply #3 on: 31/05/2005 20:24:26 »
quote:
Originally posted by DoctorBeaver


I thought Hawking radiation was the result of particles being created at the event horizon. Also, as far as I'm aware, it's quantum fluctuations that cause the creation of particle pairs not something caused by an already-existing particle.




You're correct, it would fall into the event horizon, ofcourse, but that could become a rapidly retreating border in case of a collapse, like a ball of wool unspinning...

and quantum-fluctuations of .. what? energies? other particles? it sounds like it could do the trick allright...
 

Offline chimera

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Re: Gamma Ray Bursters
« Reply #4 on: 31/05/2005 20:26:48 »
quote:
Originally posted by gsmollin

If some GRB events are exploding black holes, they will occur over a very narrow range of energy, since the black holes will all go critical at the same mass.



Couldn't that also be depending on other factors like rotation, or even maybe charge?
 

Offline gsmollin

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Re: Gamma Ray Bursters
« Reply #5 on: 01/06/2005 01:03:47 »
A primordial black hole would have lost its charge and rotation by now.
 

Offline chimera

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Re: Gamma Ray Bursters
« Reply #6 on: 02/06/2005 11:18:24 »
quote:
Originally posted by gsmollin

A primordial black hole would have lost its charge and rotation by now.



And quite possibly some other existential properties.
 

Offline gsmollin

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Re: Gamma Ray Bursters
« Reply #7 on: 02/06/2005 13:58:39 »
quote:
Originally posted by chimera

quote:
Originally posted by gsmollin

A primordial black hole would have lost its charge and rotation by now.



And quite possibly some other existential properties.



Black holes are simple. They have mass, linear momentum, angular momentum, and electric charge. The electric charge cannot be sustained because the field would attract opposite charges. A rotating primeval black hole nearing critical mass would lose rotational momentum by Hawking radiation, and slow to a rotational stop as it neared the critical mass for evaporation.
 

Offline chimera

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Re: Gamma Ray Bursters
« Reply #8 on: 02/06/2005 20:26:27 »
But how can a black hole be 'primordial', or 'primeval' at all? They take to create, and first came an isotropic gas, then galaxies.

Frankly, I think black holes are more 'convenient' than 'simple'... :)
 

Offline gsmollin

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Re: Gamma Ray Bursters
« Reply #9 on: 03/06/2005 05:26:34 »
Well, that depends upon some details in the primordial epoch, and nobody knows for sure if they exist. If there were enough density variation, some of it could collapse into black holes. Remember at this time there was already very high density, so not much variation was a lot of difference. If primordial black holes formed, they could be very small, much much smaller than stellar black holes.

The small holes would be radiating at higher and higher temperatures, and becoming more powerful. At a cetain point, they go critical, and the radiation grows rapidly. The hole's mass vanishes in an explosion.

This is postulated as a source of gamma ray bursters.
 

Offline chimera

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Re: Gamma Ray Bursters
« Reply #10 on: 03/06/2005 12:18:38 »
Maybe sonoluminescence can give us some insights into how such mini-black holes form, especially if the early universe was plasma?

http://www-phys.llnl.gov/N_Div/sonolum/

The living are the dead on holiday.  -- Maurice de Maeterlinck (1862-1949)
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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Re: Gamma Ray Bursters
« Reply #11 on: 03/06/2005 13:38:12 »
Just read that link. Fusion in a bubble, eh?
1 point, though - wouldn't the kind of temperatures they're talking of boil the water around the bubble? Surely that would have an effect on the passage of the sound wave.
 

Offline gsmollin

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Re: Gamma Ray Bursters
« Reply #12 on: 03/06/2005 13:48:22 »
The shock wave has to converge precisely on the fuel, and cause an implosion. The water is boiling, in a sense, similar to cavitation, but very precisely controlled. Any asymmetry in the collapse of the shock wave will reduce the energy imparted to the fuel, and no fusion. This is all very similar to the methods used to compress plutonium triggers, and compress and heat the tritium in a thermonuclear device. Its known as "inertially confined plasma", and it amounts to a microscopic hydrogen bomb. Most researchers have been using lasers to compress small glass spheres filled with tritium, but this new approach is very intriguing, if only because the laser research has not produced a break-even energy release despite at least 10-15 years of work.
 

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Re: Gamma Ray Bursters
« Reply #12 on: 03/06/2005 13:48:22 »

 

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