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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Re: gun powder
« Reply #25 on: 25/06/2005 08:08:06 »
Sounds pretty explosive to me Doc
 

Offline simeonie

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Re: gun powder
« Reply #26 on: 25/06/2005 20:29:06 »
ye what has this got to do with gun powder? But is is kinda important.

Chris what you said was a rather large sweeping statement. First of all I used to go to a BIG state school but my parent wanted me to move because of the bad education there and YES it wasn't good because the classes were WAY to big. The school I am at now which is an 'independant' school I really feel stretched at. We are learning the things we need to know to pass our G.C.S.E's and more.

So in some schools the education is not good infact very bad but in others it is very good.

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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Re: gun powder
« Reply #27 on: 26/06/2005 08:38:30 »
When I was at primary school there were 36 kids in my class & over half went on to grammar schools. I was fortunate enough to get into a county grammar school & there were probably 30+ in each of my classes there until I reached the 6th form. We had the highest percentage of Oxbridge candidates of any state school in London & 1 of the highest in the whole country.
Class size is not the issue. What is important is that lessons are free from disruptive behaviour & that teachers know how to teach properly. Luckily I finished my school education before "trendy" teaching methods became the norm.
To my mind the biggest indictment of education over recent years is the number of unis & colleges who need to teach their students basic English & maths. How can anyone have attained university-entrance qualifications without being able to read properly or do simple arithmetic!? How could they study for A levels without the ability to read text books properly? Or what about writing essays? I believe the evidence speaks for itself that standards must have dropped, or people without those basic skills would not have the qualifications to get to university.
And on the subject of basic skills - Synthetic Phonics. What an amazingly innovative idea that is. Who would ever have guessed that children who learn the sounds of letters would be able to read better than those who don't? My primary school must have been way ahead of its time because that's how we were taught in the 50s!
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Re: gun powder
« Reply #28 on: 26/06/2005 10:14:03 »
Funny, that’s exactly how we were taught, and how we taught our own children, and presumably how children have been taught for centuries. How come they stopped it and rediscovered it?

My school was very good at teaching us how to use our hands in order to fill the many jobs in industry in the huge manufacturing area of the West Midlands.

I always remember being asked “What do you want to be when you leave school”? I remember answering, as many others did, saying I would like to be a doctor or a veterinarian, or a reporter, only to be asked again, but with a definite emphasis on manual work, followed by something along the lines of, that’s all well and good but realistically, what would you like to do? Brick laying, mechanic, chippy, plasterer, welder, tool setter? Adding learning a trade is the way forward for you, you will never be short of work once you have a trade under your belt. It’s all well and good going labouring on the building sites initially earning good wages, but when you have learned your trade, then you will earn more than the labourers on the building sites.

The teachers and the career advisors lied through their teeth, encouraging many pupils to ditch their dreams and accept their fate in industry, which thanks to Margaret Thatcher and co, no longer exists in the U.K. having witnessed 7 thousand people a week being dumped in the unemployment cues as more and more factories went to the wall. When I left school, it was possible to walk out of one job and into another on the same day. This was the norm in those days!

I remember driving through Sheffield after the Thatcher fallout and crying with tears falling off my cheeks as I stared at the desolation in horror and disbelief. I cried because I had seen the faces of the devastated people in the West Midlands and understood completely what was happening in Sheffield and other Northern towns and cities alike. We were betrayed by the iron bitch, who was involved in the sales of arms to countries we later went to war against. Now Sheffield boasts of a huge shopping mal, which stands on the same foundations of  factories that provided sustenance for tens of thousands of families. How can a shopping mal replace those lost jobs?

I, and many more people like me will never forget and never forgive these low life political scumbags for what they have done to our once great country.  All that was needed was some assistance to afford companies time to change over to high technology and modern processes, as was definitely the case in other countries. But no, they could not see their hands in front of their faces and decided to turn a blind eye to the plight of so many brilliantly skilled people. I would rather gnaw my own leg off than vote conservative and I tell them exactly that each time they have the audacity to knock on my door!

But what goes around eventually comes around, and there lies the now obvious shortfalls in a high-tech education designed for a manufacturing industry that no longer can exist on our shores due to greedy life sucking politics. After reading this you might think that I would be a Labour supporter and you would be wrong. They are no better than the Tories and are as self serving as any other politician. How we move on from here, I wish I had some answers, I feel we have already gone past the point of no return and sinking too far down in the quick-sands of idio-cratic nonsense.
The energy requirements and tax burdens imposed by these politician parasites prohibits any chance of the re-emergence of manufacturing in the U.K. We are doomed to become the slaves as The Eastern Countries and Africa release their shackles and fulfil the roll of supply and demand that we once did so well.

One could argue, that the environment has improved because there is less pollution due to the absence of heavy industrial processes, but this would not be the case as the problem with pollution remains the same, just the location of the problem is moved.

One example of pollution shift, is the packaging of food by the supermarkets. What was wrong with the paper bag, the glass milk bottle, and news paper wrapped around our fish n chips? Why do we need plastic boxes, bags, cups, milk bottles, fast food wrappings, fizzy drinks bottles. The World has gone bonkers!
[:(!]

quote:
Originally posted by DoctorBeaver

 Synthetic Phonics. What an amazingly innovative idea that is. Who would ever have guessed that children who learn the sounds of letters would be able to read better than those who don't? My primary school must have been way ahead of its time because that's how we were taught in the 50s!

 

Offline simeonie

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Re: gun powder
« Reply #29 on: 26/06/2005 21:44:58 »
ok this is really going off topic. Although yes you are right in some respects but I bet a lot of kids now a days have much vaster knowledge than a lot of kids from "your day". There are a lot more "slow" people though.

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Offline chris

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Re: gun powder
« Reply #30 on: 26/06/2005 22:38:37 »
I think that you're right, there's a lot more for people to know these days compared with 50 years ago. Just take a look at medicine - hospitals once had medics and surgeons, now they have about 30 different medical sub-specialties and surgeons who only operate on aortic aneurysms.

But I doubt that a patient would be entirely enamoured to be given the wrong dose of a drug by any of these doctors because they couldn't add up !

I also sympathise with Simeonie because you're part of that generation that is 'got at' by your predecessors who 'had it much worse'. In medicine I'm the same. I keep hearing from seniors who worked 500 hour-long days, were on call 36 hours a day, never set foot outside the hospital for 3 weeks at a time etc etc. But the fact is, that they genuinely did learn a lot. Junior doctors these days are very ill-prepared for their jobs by medical schools. I should know, I am one. It's just the same with A levels and university entrance. Just as Eth says above, universities are now running remedial classes to teach people adding up so that they can cope with the course. I'm at a loss to explain why this should be necessary, unless standards have dropped.

By the way, Simeonie - and you have my permission to shoot me for this - but "independent" is spelled with an e, and you missed an 'o' off 'too' ;)

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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Re: gun powder
« Reply #31 on: 27/06/2005 05:18:29 »
Andrew - I too am often aghast at the amount of packaging on some goods (although I have to say I'm rather pleased chips are no longer served in newspaper as if I was unfortunate enough as to have a picture of Tony Blair's smug grin on the page it would probably put me off my food!). I recently bought a new computer system with a flat screen. The packaging with the screen was unbelievable. The screen  stands 15" tall & the base is only 10" in diameter: so why is the box large enough to hold a small family car? I can understand the necessity for all the polysterene mouldings and why the screen itself was in an anti-static bag. But was there any need to not only put all the cables in separate plastic bags (3 cables, 3 bags) but also to wrap the connectors on the cables in plastic secured with tape? The instruction manual & warranty were in separate plastic bags as was a wad of advertising literature from the manufacturer. Also, what is the point of the piece of cardboard slipped over the pins on the mains plug? And why the plastic caps on the pins?
 
quote:
I think that you're right, there's a lot more for people to know these days compared with 50 years ago. Just take a look at medicine - hospitals once had medics and surgeons, now they have about 30 different medical sub-specialties and surgeons who only operate on aortic aneurysms.

Chris - that poses an interesting dichotomy... would you rather be operated on by an expert in the field or by someone who is less skilled in it but has a wider range of knowledge & experience who could rectify any other problems that may arise or become apparent during surgery? With finite funds available it is unfeasible to have experts in all fields standing-by just in case.
 
quote:
By the way, Simeonie - and you have my permission to shoot me for this - but "independent" is spelled with an e, and you missed an 'o' off 'too'

Heh, you're like me. Every time I see a spelling or grammatical error I want to correct it. I think it must be genetic with people who are involved with teaching! However, although grammatical and lexical mistakes are often due to laziness, much of the time it is a result of how the person was taught.
(Incidentally, Chris, I can't let you get away with these... "specialties"? Is that a genuine mistake or have you been reading too many American books? Also, you used apostrophes instead of quote marks, and the passive form of "spelled" is "spelt" - "spelled" is the past participle :D )
I remember when my step-daughter was about 8 or 9 years old I read a story she had written in class. The teacher had given her a very good mark even though it was peppered with basic grammatical & spelling errors. At the next open day I queried this with the teacher concerned who replied with words to the effect of, "Don't worry, that'll be sorted out sometime in the future". The school was more concerned merely that she express herself than that she express herself correctly. By the time my step-daughter was 12 she still had had no formal teaching in grammar at school: everything she knew had been learned at home.
There are some modern teaching methods of which I whole-heartedly approve. For instance in history - I'm all in favour of trying to really understand how people lived rather than just learning dates of important events. That should give us much greater insight into problems still encountered in certain parts of the world. However, unfortunately I think my profile signature says it all.

We learn from history that we do not learn from history.
(Georg Hegel)
« Last Edit: 27/06/2005 05:34:21 by DoctorBeaver »
 

Offline rabeldin

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Re: gun powder
« Reply #32 on: 27/06/2005 12:16:44 »
Having  seen electronic manufacturing from the inside, I can explain some of the packaging issues.

Nobody makes the entire product. Every company is a specialist. The monitor screen  was made by a company specializing in glass objects and mounted into its plastic case by another company which packages the assembly in foam and plastic. The cables are made hundreds of miles away and individually packaged in cellophane bags. Everything is shipped to a consolidation point where each bit is put together into one box and loaded onto the delivery truck.

Nobody is totally responsible for anything anymore. We divide and conquer (and assure that any claim will be fought by legions of lawyers).

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Offline chris

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Re: gun powder
« Reply #33 on: 27/06/2005 13:43:25 »
He He, actually, I can justify at least 2 of the mistakes.

Medical specialties are referred to as such across the medical world, including by the British Medical Association :

http://www.bma.org.uk/ap.nsf/Content/BecomingDoctorSpecialties

My posts lack quotes (and used aspostrophe's (that one's intentional ;)) because my 2 key - bearing the quotes - has stopped working (probably dirty underneath). I can generate 2s from the numeric pad, but not the quotes - so I've been resorting to ' instead

Spelled / Spelt - was a cock up !

Chris

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Offline simeonie

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Re: gun powder
« Reply #34 on: 27/06/2005 21:28:33 »
Ye when I am typing I am always doin it really fast and quite often make mistakes. I usually like to correct mistakes.

You know wot anoys me! When someone writes one of the HUGE DOCK OFF messages that take like a year to read through *cough cough!!! Doctor Beaver!!!! Cough cough!!!!!*
 Nah jokin

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Offline simeonie

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Re: gun powder
« Reply #35 on: 27/06/2005 21:31:41 »
Oh and by the way when you got the big packaging for the screen.... I can understand that because they have to take every precausion to make sure it doesnt brake. Coz if it did then it would cause a lot of hastle for the people who make it.

And no one even dare to correct any spellings coz I know there are probably mistakes I am just typing ded fast and careleslly

P.S



Muffins

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Offline rabeldin

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Re: gun powder
« Reply #36 on: 28/06/2005 22:28:49 »
Being a lazy sort, I didn't concoct any explosives as a kid. I just cut into my dad's shotgun shells and took out the black powder. It made a good propellant for a child's tenpin shot from a metal pipe. Of course, in ChemClub, we made our own nitrocellulose propelled rockets and sent them zipping across the room on a guide wire. I remember the bomb we made from left over black powder wrapped in newspaper. It lifted the lid off a 50 gallon trash barrel about 30 ft!

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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Re: gun powder
« Reply #37 on: 29/06/2005 14:49:31 »
quote:
Ye when I am typing I am always doin it really fast

 
quote:
You know wot anoys me

 
quote:
precausion to make sure it doesnt brake. Coz if it did then it would cause a lot of hastle for the people who make it.


 
quote:
And no one even dare to correct any spellings coz I know there are probably mistakes I am just typing ded fast and careleslly

I dare, I dare! heh - Ye, doin, annoys, precausion, ded, careleslly

*runs away in case you're bigger than me* ;)
 

Offline weebrain

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Re: gun powder
« Reply #38 on: 01/08/2005 11:35:18 »
gunpowder:-

75 per cent potassium nitrate (salt peter)
15 per cent charcoal >>> (the 5% was a typo)
10 per cent sulphur

u can buy expensive, high quality chemicals that r kind of hard to find here :-


http://www.kno3.com/ [nofollow]

gud if your mesin around with the cookbook

sir loony
« Last Edit: 11/08/2005 05:26:07 by weebrain »
 

Offline simeonie

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Re: gun powder
« Reply #39 on: 01/08/2005 20:27:43 »
that is the most helpful thing anyone as said and thanks.


:( I wish however that you could make it with just stuff you have round the house

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Re: gun powder
« Reply #40 on: 01/08/2005 23:20:00 »
If you want to make those little banger things you throw on the ground it is very simple. You need iodine crystals (NOT potassium permanganate) and ammonia.

Dissolve the crystals in the ammonia until you cannot get anymore to dissolve then spread the misture out on a paper towel and let it dry for 24 hours. You will be left with crystals which when wrapped in toilet tissue or similar will explode upon impact.

Now the hard bit......... finding iodine crystals as I cannot seem to by them.

Something really cool you can make with potassium permanganate - mis potassium permanganate with glycerin (both can be bought in boots or a local pharmacy for a couple of quid max), apply a little friction and then stand well back. I set fire to my living room doing this and still have the holes in the carpet. It makes a hell of a lot of smoke so STAND BACK AND ONLY DO IT IN A VENTILATED AREA.

Explosives are easy to make but detonating them is the hard bit. I have lots of books on the subject. Actually synthesising explosives is easy, getting hold of the chemicals is VERY hard. Very hard to detonate (how does one make a detonator???)

Live long and Love life

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Offline weebrain

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Re: gun powder
« Reply #41 on: 02/08/2005 02:26:12 »
to detonate powders i wud use a Magnesium Ribbon

but if your detonating something like semtex, a eletric ignitor can be used :-

u can buy them from here (http://www.hobbytron.com/Estes-Model-Rocket-Igniters-(6).html [nofollow])

just connect them to a 6v to 12v supply add a switch or something to it.

sir loony
 

Offline neilep

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Re: gun powder
« Reply #42 on: 02/08/2005 02:55:29 »
quote:
Originally posted by weebrain

to detonate powders i wud use a Magnesium Ribbon

but if your detonating something like semtex, a eletric ignitor can be used :-

u can buy them from here (http://www.hobbytron.com/Estes-Model-Rocket-Igniters-(6).html)

just connect them to a 6v to 12v supply add a switch or something to it.

sir loony



Thanks for your advice on how to detonate Semtex !

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Offline David Sparkman

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Re: gun powder
« Reply #43 on: 04/08/2005 03:53:02 »
Quote
Originally posted by weebrain

gunpowder:-

75 per cent potassium nitrate (salt peter)
5 per cent charcoal
10 per cent sulphur

There are quite a few sources of saltpeter including bat dung, animal and human urine, and tobacco stems.

The old saying "keep your gunpowder dry" was a comment on the fact that saltpeter will dissolve in water. Get your gunpowder wet, and when it drys, most of the saltpeter is gone, and the powder won't work.

Grind the charcoal and sulfur seperatly, and mix these two dry. Dissolve the saltpeter in water and mix wet with the charcoal and sulphur. Spread the paste out on a flat drying surface about 1/2 to one cm thin. When dry, crumble with your hands. Do not crush with a hard instrument unless I have previously purchased an insurance policy on your life:D

David
 

Offline finchbeak

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Re: gun powder
« Reply #44 on: 05/08/2005 02:54:52 »
A few observations:
1) The unnamed individual who re-hijacked this thread back onto the topic of explosives is a spoilsport.
2) Is it just me, or does that gunpowder recipe add up to 90%?

In all seriousness:
3) I have used similar proportions (although mine added up to 100%) with adequate results.  
4) Particle size has a very large effect in this mixture.  I used to grind the components together with a mortar & pestle... until I discovered that even gentle grinding can set the stuff off when it is a fine powder.  I have a good-sized scar on my right hand from the very painful burn that resulted.  Igniting gunpowder is no problem.
5) It burns very intensely, but it doesn't go bang unless it is enclosed in a container.  The smoke created contains a lot of sulfur dioxide, which is very nasty to breathe, as it dissolves in the moisture on the delicate membranes of your respiratory tract and there combines with the water to form sulfurous acid.  You can feel the effects of even a mild SO2 exposure for days.
6) It's actually very easy to get ahold of these chemicals... if you're a chemistry teacher.  I imagine that individual purchasers would be checked up on.

In conclusion -
7) Be very careful with this stuff.  Even experienced people hurt themselves regularly.  I saw a documentary about fireworks where they interviewed people who have spent whole careers assembling the big fireworks displays that cities put on.  All the people in the video were missing a finger or two and at least one of them had big ugly scars.  
8) Here's a relatively safe - and very satisfying - explosion that's easy to make.  You absolutely do need an explosion shield, like a thick piece of plexiglas, though.  Take an empty 2-litre bottle, fill it 1/3 full of water, add a bunch of dry ice (solid CO2), screw the cap on tightly and put the thing behind the shield.  You have to use quite a lot of dry ice - a few hundred grams at least.  The bottle swells ominously for a good minute or two, building palpable suspense.  When it finally blows, the explosion is very impressive.  A nice, deep, resonant BOOM!  The shockwave sets off car alarms.  I don't recommend this in the UK right now, in light of recent events.  The police will almost certainly treat you very unkindly.  However, if you have an adequate shield, this explosion can be carried out very safely.  Great for teaching about gas laws.
« Last Edit: 05/08/2005 02:59:43 by finchbeak »
 

Offline simeonie

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Re: gun powder
« Reply #45 on: 05/08/2005 13:13:54 »
The other 10% is the love of an arsnist

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Offline Simmer

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Re: gun powder
« Reply #46 on: 07/08/2005 22:47:12 »
quote:
by simeonie:- So does anybody know how to make gun powder, dynamite and/or any other exlplosive. Preferabely ones that expload on impact


We used to make nitrogen triiodide at school, explodes on impact or even spontaneously when dry.  

Our best trick was to scatter the crystals over the floor so that it popped and crackled when people walked on it.  Made a hell of a mess of the floor though, one of the decomposition products is iodine!

http://www.armory.com/~spcecdt/pyrotech/ni3_dir.html for the recipe

CAUTION - as I said, it does have a habit of exploding spontaneously when dry, the best bet is to make and use it in situ and confine yourself to a few milligrams :)
 

Offline simeonie

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Re: gun powder
« Reply #47 on: 11/08/2005 10:46:03 »
thanks simmer for that :D

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Offline Steve Vai

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Re: gun powder
« Reply #48 on: 02/09/2005 16:51:14 »
detonators - i have a way, involving household objects.

get a light bulb, break the glass carefully  but not the filament, place the filament in your stuff to be detonated (liquid or powder may be best)

you may go through several light bulbs trying this.

anyway, then connect it up to a battery WITH a swtich (otherwise ur in trouble)

press switch once you are a safe distance away

you can also use alarm clocks to make timed explosions, etc etc, basically supply power to the bulb filament.

i havent tried this, ive not had a chance


where is it best to get saltpeter from, can i get it without buying it from household objects?

"Turkeys killed my family" - Chip, 02/09/2005, 12:49
 

Offline Barnsley

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Re: gun powder
« Reply #49 on: 01/10/2005 19:36:17 »
can any one tell me where i can get a copy of the anarcist or jolly rodgers cook book
 

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Re: gun powder
« Reply #49 on: 01/10/2005 19:36:17 »

 

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