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Author Topic: Did the Catholic Church execute people for suggesting Earth orbits the Sun?  (Read 20322 times)

roscoe

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I will pay $1000 to anyone who can provide the name of one person executed by the Catholic Church for alleging Earth revolves around the Sun. The 3rd and final revision of my Galileo research can be found here

http://www.firstjesuits.wordpress.com
« Last Edit: 23/04/2009 23:06:11 by chris »

RD

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[Giordano Bruno (born Filippo Bruno) a.k.a. Bruno Nolano]  was declared a heretic and handed over to secular authorities on January 8, 1600 and burned at the stake on February 17 1600 in Campo de' Fiori, a popular Roman square. As a demonstration of mercy, the clerical authorities placed a bag of gunpowder around his neck before they set the fire, to spare Bruno, bringing his suffering to an end quickly. The authorities also nailed his tongue to his jaw to stop him from speaking. Since 1889, there has been a monument to Bruno on the site of his execution.
http://www.biographybase.com/biography/Bruno_Giordano.html

Although his heretical beliefs other than Heliocentrism were sufficient to have him barbecued,
(presumably this is the loophole in your $1000 offer: the heresy which warrented his execution was not solely Heliocentrism).
« Last Edit: 24/04/2009 01:36:59 by RD »

Don_1

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The point is that the Catholic Church did not need to execute anyone for suggesting that the Earth was not the center of the universe. All they had to do, as with Nicolaus Copernicus, was to threaten such 'heretics' with excommunication, in those days, a fait worse than death.

Chemistry4me

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in those days, a fait worse than death.
Fate mate! Second FOG in two days! What's happening!

FOG

dentstudent

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Circuses - a fête worse than death.

Don_1

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in those days, a fait worse than death.
Fate mate! Second FOG in two days! What's happening!

FOG

As I typed it, I looked at it and thought, 'that's not right', then put 'fete' & thought, 'nope, thats a fair'. Then I tried 'fait' (as in the French "fait accompli").

FATE...... Wy didnt it cume inta me haed, prhaps i kneed a cup o cofe or sumat.

Ta four putin me rite C4M...... no fanks to dentals on vis okashun, u done got it rong two. Oh! I cee, its a pun.... struth, i shure do knead sumfing ta get the old gray mater wurking twoday.
« Last Edit: 23/04/2009 08:13:32 by Don_1 »

dentstudent

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no fanks to dentals on vis okashun, u done got it rong two.

Huh? Where did I get it wrong?

Ooooh! Post changer! I'm telling teach that you changed your post post posting!
« Last Edit: 23/04/2009 08:15:55 by dentstudent »

syhprum

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You had to be really determined to get yourself executed heretics were normally given the opportunity to recant.

Bored chemist

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I suspect that this thread is a drive-by trolling.

roscoe

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The point is that the Catholic Church did not need to execute anyone for suggesting that the Earth was not the center of the universe. All they had to do, as with Nicolaus Copernicus, was to threaten such 'heretics' with excommunication, in those days, a fait worse than death.
The point is that the Catholic Church did not need to execute anyone for suggesting that the Earth was not the center of the universe. All they had to do, as with Nicolaus Copernicus, was to threaten such 'heretics' with excommunication, in those days, a fait worse than death.
Catholic Church has never ex-communicated anyone for alledgeing Earth rev around Sun. Did you read original link to wordpress?

RD

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As a demonstration of mercy, the clerical authorities placed a bag of gunpowder around his neck before they set the fire
http://www.biographybase.com/biography/Bruno_Giordano.html

He "went out with a bang" then.

Quote
while his Copernicanism [heliocentrism] was undoubtedly a factor in his excommunication and execution, his theological beliefs were also sufficiently unorthodox to earn him condemnation, and probably played a larger role in the matter than his cosmology.
http://www.biographybase.com/biography/Bruno_Giordano.html

I'll settle for $100.
« Last Edit: 23/04/2009 19:47:08 by RD »

Bored chemist

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Did you read original link to wordpress?
I skimmed through it until I came to this "David Icke has a chapter somewhere on the Photonic Band" at which point it lost any prospect of gaining credibility.

roscoe

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So it's the old kill the messinger routine then. Icke talks of many thousands of things-- a few of which are correct. I suspect the PHYSICAL OBJECT of the Photonic Band to be one of them although it cannot, of course be proven.

Only one article of 'Copernicanism' concerns itself with helio-centrism.

This may be a 'drive-by troll', however it cannot be denied that most people believe the Cath Church executed or at least ex-communicated people who alleged Earth/ Sun and this is a false conception.
« Last Edit: 24/04/2009 01:22:17 by roscoe »

Bored chemist

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"So it's the old kill the messinger routine then."
Very old, for example once the messenger was a man called Brunoand the Catholic church didn't like his message.

"This may be a 'drive-by troll', "
 Sadly it's not.

"however it cannot be denied that most people believe the Cath Church executed or at least ex-communicated people who alleged Earth/ Sun and this is a false conception. "
I deny it on the grounds of the evidence cited above (and BTW, you owe RD his $1000).
« Last Edit: 24/04/2009 06:59:05 by Bored chemist »

Don_1

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I'm not actually sure of what you are trying to prove here, roscoe. Heliocentrism is a fact, that's undeniable.

The Catholic Church did not excommunicate or execute anyone for heliocentric belief. The fact is, we cannot know whether they did or did not on this or any other matter. Some less well known people were exiled or just disappeared off the scene after falling foul of the church. Who knows what happened to them.

The church did deny heliocentrism and did imprison Galileo for his belief in it.

The Catholic church also tried to discredit Jean Francois Champollion in the early 19 century for his work on translating Egyptian hieroglyphs, fearful that translation would prove the Earth to be older than the 6000 years in biblical recconing and equally, if not more so, concerned that it would undermine the authority of the Vatican. It is alledged that the church conspired to destroy the Roseta Stone, and all copies of it, to hinder Champollion's progress and that of Thomas Young, his English rival. It is even suggested that the church were aware of this translation device and had destroyed copies of it many years previous, and now wanted to destroy this 'one that got away'.

Are you merely trying to defend the Catholic Church? You really have no need to do so, we are all aware that Catholic priests are as pure as the driven snow; well except for the odd few paedophiles and other such perverts. Of course such anti-faith habits did not occur in the church's history. Pope Alexander VI did not indulge in such un-Papal deeds, did he?

If you are trying to deny heliocentrism, which I rather doubt, you would be a fool. If you are trying to defend the Catholic Church, nobody hear has criticised it, in fact some here are followers of the Christian faith and are members of the Catholic community. We are all human, and thus subject to human failings. I would suggest you find an anti Catholicism forum and post there.

Vern

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Quote from: Don_1
If you are trying to deny heliocentrism, which I rather doubt, you would be a fool. If you are trying to defend the Catholic Church, nobody hear has criticised it, in fact some here are followers of the Christian faith and are members of the Catholic community. We are all human, and thus subject to human failings. I would suggest you find an anti Catholicism forum and post there.
FOG  ;D ;D

The really amazing thing to me is that with all of the obviously outrageous undertakings of the Catholic Church, it remained so powerful throughout its history. This is not a property of the Church. It is a property of the human population IMHO. :)
« Last Edit: 24/04/2009 13:40:51 by Vern »

Don_1

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Quote from: Don_1
If you are trying to deny heliocentrism, which I rather doubt, you would be a fool. If you are trying to defend the Catholic Church, nobody hear has criticised it, in fact some here are followers of the Christian faith and are members of the Catholic community. We are all human, and thus subject to human failings. I would suggest you find an anti Catholicism forum and post there.
FOG  ;D ;D


Pardon??? Oh yes, I here you. Nuts!!! FOGGED again.

Ophiolite

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Roscoe, may I echo Don1...what are you trying to prove. Your blog seems to focus on some rather low blows, largely unsubstantiated, at Galileo's science and his character. You make a few observations that don't really hold water. (For example, at that time there were no real distinctions between physicists and astronomers. so to classify him as either is faulty. His extensive observations with telescopes of his own design certainly qualify him to be considered as an astronomer of note, contrary to your view.) And of course there is the introduction of the Photon Band nonsense. (Yes, it is nonsense. I'm quite happy to discuss that with you further on a new thread if you wish to start one.)

So, what is it you are trying to say?

roscoe

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'Heliocentrism is a fact...' That is a new one to me as INQ denied the Sun is the center of the Universe and this has proven to be correct. No on knows where( if anywhere) is the center of the Universe in a physical sense. Until someone provides a specific name of someone executed or ex-communicated for saying Earth rev around the Sun, the Church remains innocent. The question is not about helio-centrsm. Galileo was NOT IMPRISONED AT ALL. He was held under a very loose type of house arrest only for a short period of time in 1633. 

Perverts in the Church only arrived with the the schismatical v2 judeo-masonic anti-popes who are in possession of the buildings of Vatican City. Also I would bet that there have been a few phoney accusations tossed about as well. As far as Alex VI, I have been able to rehabilitate his character somewhat as there never were any 'orgies' in his Vatican. Most of the inflammatory accusations against him are a result of the immagination of the heretic Savanarola.
« Last Edit: 26/04/2009 05:14:24 by roscoe »

roscoe

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Wade Rowland's book Galileo's Mistake should be more aptly titled Galileo's Mistakes. In strictly astronomical terms, Galileo had five things WRONG. 1-tides, 2-comets, 3- ellipses, 4-- the ancient Pythagorean ideas that the Sun is stationary and 5--in the center of the Universe. I find it of interest that Galileo concurred with Pythagoras with respect to astronomical and physical theories as well. I would suggest all read Pietro Redondi's Galileo Heretic. 
« Last Edit: 25/04/2009 05:42:00 by roscoe »

roscoe

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Let's be clear about G Bruno-- he is executed 16 yrs b4 the first Galileo indictment. The astronomical controversy had not even erupted yet so 'Copernicanism'( which is more than just helio-centrism) was not even a factor nor is it a 'loophole' in my offer.
« Last Edit: 25/04/2009 00:30:20 by roscoe »

roscoe

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Don-- what is the source of the info on Champillon? your choice of words like alleged and rumored has got me going. It is important because I am aware of the conflict between the Biblical story and the and the idea that the Sun may be revolving around something else in a 26,000 yr orbit. The problem is that no Bona Fide INQ exists in the schismatical, heretical v2 sect.  I highly doubt the Church would be squelching any legitimate search for truth b4 1958.

Has anyone here actually read Copernicus? or at least Bk I? It is noteworthy that this work was unpublished in the English language well into the 20th Cent. It would be interesting to know of a University in the world today that includes this work as part of its curricula, whether it be science or theology. The book is probably the foundation of modern science.

In addition-- Someone has altered the title of my orig post and messed up the point of the post: there is no question whether or not the Cath Church ever executed anyone for alleging Earth around the Sun and until someone comes up with a specific name, there is zero $ in the offer for anyone.

 
« Last Edit: 25/04/2009 07:34:28 by roscoe »

Ophiolite

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Roscoe, there are several errors in your posts that require correction, but I'd like to know you will actually respond to them. Were you planning on replying to my outstanding question anytime soon?

Don_1

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'Heliocentrism is a fact...'

Yes, I did not make myself clear, I admit. Perhaps I should have, but it seemed to me you were more concerned with the defense of the Catholic Church than heliocentrism. So to make my meaning clear, heliocentrism was a fact in its time. That isn't too clear either, but I think most will understand what I am saying. It was nearer the truth than the Catholic Church's idea.

The point is, as I and Ophiolite have asked, what are you trying to achieve? I reiterate, 'If you are trying to defend the Catholic Church, nobody hear has criticised it, in fact some here are followers of the Christian faith and are members of the Catholic community.' You are making an argument where there was no argument.

roscoe

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The point of this post IS to defend the Cath Church against allegations of impropriety in the Galileo case. No one can deny that most of the GDP is under the false impression that the Cath Church persecuted someone who alleged the Earth rev around the Sun. Additionally, lets move to the Earth is flat scenario. The Church has never taught the Earth was flat and most people think we did. This is another misconception. Columbus never had any fear of falling off the flat Earth.

Someone here has criticised the Church with allegations of paedophiles( a very recent v2 phenomenon) and against Alex VI. Another wrong idea is that Galileo was imprisoned.  Please give source on Champollion info. And has no-one here even read Copernicus? This is not surprising and is a consequence of Luther, Calvin, Bacon, Wieshaupt etc.
« Last Edit: 25/04/2009 19:12:12 by roscoe »

 

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