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Offline gray 1985

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my creation, the butterfly effect and maths
« on: 17/05/2009 09:20:22 »
Hi, (this question will require someone with strong maths skills)

Im curious as to what the likelihood of my creation is?

This is to say that if we go back through my biological decedents, everything they ever did had to be done that specific way or else the chaos theory would have prevented my personal creation. this is an ever growing web the further back in time we get, these webs had to ‘overlap with other’s over the course of history where by any interference that occurred is exactly what had to happen in order for my creation to occur. Put simply, pretty much everything from the start of time had to occur EXACTLY as it did or else the butterfly effect would have produced a completely different set of circumstance that would have not resulted in me. Consider the specific sperm that had to meet the respected eggs down your biological path, each one had to be the correct one every single time since beginning of sexual reproductive life. Before this every cell had to reproduce exactly how they did. Before life the formation of the planets and exact weather systems had to occur as they did, even as far back as the big bang ultimately were deciding factors

I’m not a mathematician but I firmly believe that this number is essentially infinity - 1


 

Offline Chemistry4me

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« Reply #1 on: 17/05/2009 09:30:59 »
So you're saying that the probablity of your creation is - 1?
 

Offline gray 1985

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« Reply #2 on: 17/05/2009 10:18:33 »
I think all things filtered in since the beginning of the universe, i.e from the big bang, that had to blast atoms out into the universe exactly as it did. Then we needed the formation of out galaxy/ solar system exactly as it did exactly when it did or the chaos theory would have prevented the precise conditions for our biological evolution to either you or I. Just consider every animal interaction since the 1st life had to do so or else the end product though possibly similar could never have been you or I personally. I used the expression infinity – 1, because I have no idea the actual figure and my theory is that the possibilities that could have happened since the big bang are infinite. Please I’d like to hear your thoughts.
 

Offline Chemistry4me

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« Reply #3 on: 17/05/2009 10:26:08 »
Well I do not know what you are actually asking. What are you looking for exactly?
 

Offline Karen W.

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« Reply #4 on: 17/05/2009 10:44:35 »
I see what your saying and there had to be a set progression as if not even the slightest of changes would basically changed the outcome of life itself etc...Everything had to have had its place as if it had been laid out in a perfect plan and every step executed to perfection to complete the succession of life on eath and our universe. Is that what you mean......? 

Any one single change in the layout could and would have changed everything hat has ever been and and every mountain hill bug etc....
 

Offline gray 1985

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« Reply #5 on: 17/05/2009 10:54:47 »
Sorry I’ll try and put it a little less hazy

For you or I to be here, talking to each other there has had to be a network of random yet precise occurrences that have happened constantly, since time began! I’m looking for an actual figure of what the approximate value of this chance is?

My ‘infinity-1’, represents the chaos theory in respect to us being here (the one value is you or I), it basically says that any other slight change would produce a different end result. I talk about the big bang because the slightest anomaly or fluctuation would have had devastating consequences and ultimately a different end result, this carried through to life begging and all the slight events that unfolded beteen the big bang and 1st life, then the web of life and how every action since 1st life had to follow this precise yet random path to us, and thus the possibilities are infinite. Hence where I got infinity – 1.
 

Offline gray 1985

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« Reply #6 on: 17/05/2009 10:55:35 »
yes karen nail on the head
 

Offline Karen W.

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« Reply #7 on: 17/05/2009 11:13:40 »
I do not know the maths behind it but I do agree and understand what you are saying!
 

Offline gray 1985

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« Reply #8 on: 17/05/2009 11:15:34 »
I guess a better equation may be

X =    1 /  n<00


Where by;

X is the probability of your creation
n < oo is a given number of immense magnitude though probably less than infinity
 

Offline gray 1985

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« Reply #9 on: 17/05/2009 11:24:00 »
Can anyone good at maths tell me if this equation works (in theory)?
 

Offline gray 1985

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« Reply #10 on: 17/05/2009 12:04:00 »
oh and infinity - 1 (meant to mean infinity to 1, not minus one)
 

Offline Chemistry4me

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« Reply #11 on: 17/05/2009 12:05:44 »
Ohhhhhhhhhhhh.....
Could have said that earlier mate!! :D
 

Offline gray 1985

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« Reply #12 on: 17/05/2009 12:08:27 »
lol sorry boss, I wasn’t thinking from the flip side, could you tell me if the re-vamped equation works for this theoretical model?
 

Offline Chemistry4me

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« Reply #13 on: 17/05/2009 12:15:44 »
What did you say 'n' was again?
 

Offline gray 1985

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« Reply #14 on: 17/05/2009 12:22:22 »
the n<00 is meant to read ‘n less than infinity’,

 where ‘n’ is a theoretical number of immense magnitude less than infinity, though when I think about it now, it should possibly read less than or equal too infinity.
 

Offline _Stefan_

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« Reply #15 on: 17/05/2009 17:15:41 »
Consider the fact that it didn't have to be you that was born, or that all those events that led to you didn't have to occur that way. So there's nothing "precise" about the history, it just looks that way post-hoc
 

Offline gray 1985

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« Reply #16 on: 17/05/2009 18:16:23 »
What I actually mean by precise is, that every event has occurred through a process of random chance which in the end created me, so when I use the word precise I’m using it in a selfish context. As in, it was the ‘precise’ conditions to create me (I understand there was nothing special about it, like I said random chance).

I must not have made my self clear as it is the concept that it didn’t have to be me that makes this such a fascinating topic, the “infinite*” other possibilities that could have occurred,

*my argument is that there really where an infinite number of possibilities.
 

Offline Don_1

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my creation, the butterfly effect and maths
« Reply #17 on: 18/05/2009 08:46:15 »
1000 generations ago, one of your ancestors could have been in the wrong place at the wrong time, or a disturbed during copulation, so the entire ancestral line would have changed from that point. You would not be here, one of your parents would not have existed,one of your grandparents would not have existed, one of your great grandparents would not have existed etc. etc. I would say that the chances of any of us being here are >∞ - 1 (if such were possible). It is not just the circumstances of your ancestors which have determined the outcome of your ancestral line, it is also the circumstances of others. Had one of my ancestors been different and married someone from your ancestral line instead of your ancestor, neither of us would be here.

I don't think mathematics can account for pure chance.
 

Offline gray 1985

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« Reply #18 on: 18/05/2009 09:31:21 »
Yeah that’s the point I’m trying to make (I said webs overlapping) what I actually meant were interactions between ancestral line (not just from a sexual reproductive point of view) everything they did has consequences, and ultimately anything they ever did, if done differently would have prevented my creation, chaos wouldn’t allow it!

As for the mathematics, I’m more curious then anything else, i.e. has some truly awesome mathematician/scientist sat and worked out a figure as to the estimated outcomes with all variables included. And if not then;

The theoretical equation for any organism in existence must therefore (re-vamped) be

X = 1/∞ (x is the probability of existence)

As in, we are ‘the one’ in what is, a universe of infinite possibilities (like I say earlier think of all the random event also required in creating our planet, solar system galaxy since the big bang)

As there are ultimately infinite possibilities of what could have happened, even in speaking to you now we are in some way shape and form influencing the future.take a moment to think, just reading this sentence will slow what you down which carries its own ‘domino effect’, the ‘alternate consequences’ of what could have happened we will never be aware, and ultimately any posobility that could have occurred would have been faced with equally abundant crisis points.
 

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my creation, the butterfly effect and maths
« Reply #18 on: 18/05/2009 09:31:21 »

 

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