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Offline BP

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Did we land on the moon?
« on: 19/06/2003 19:25:32 »
I have a friend that does not believe we landed on the moon.  He says this because there are no stars in the backgroud of the pictures that were taken while up there on the moon.  Does anyone know why that is?


 

Offline Ians Daddy

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Re: Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #1 on: 19/06/2003 20:03:03 »
As an ex-Navy photographer, I can speculate that it had alot to do with the lighting. Since there must have been an issue with lighting and apature (light allowance) settings, as well as flash issues, the amount of surrounding darkness would cause for a difficult shot. I've heard all the conspiracy theories about us not actually landing on the moon, but staging it in a studio in order to win the "Space Race". My belief is that we indeed landed there and the picture is authentic. The stars were there, we just couldn't see them. It would be like in a film where the subject comes into focus in the foreground after we've been focused on the background, or vice versa. The subject (astronaut) was in focus (foreground) and the stars were not (background).
Then again, it could all have been a hoax and we've all been duped into believing that we were there by a plotting and evil government.
Just a thought.

What's on the dark side of the moon? I've heard that we have clandestine labs for the ultra wealthy powers of the world and that Elvis and Colonel Sanders hang out up there... :)
 

Offline Donnah

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Re: Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #2 on: 20/06/2003 02:22:41 »
quote:
Originally posted by Ians Daddy

What's on the dark side of the moon?


Pink Floyd.
 

Offline Quantumcat

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Re: Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #3 on: 20/06/2003 03:03:28 »
That conspiracy theory is in my opinion something to increase TV channel ratings. Load of balderdash.

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Offline Ians Daddy

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Re: Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #4 on: 20/06/2003 03:20:26 »
Hehehe...I actually visited the dark side of the moon once while listening to Pink Floyd. It was very smokey there and smelled of burning brush. It was quite dark there and I think the surface is covered in a bean-bag like substance. It must have been due to the lack of gravity, but I remember when I returned, I was famished.
 

Offline cuso4

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Re: Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #5 on: 20/06/2003 08:01:43 »
Another weird thing about the photograph was that the USA flag was straight and taut. If there is no atmosphere on the moon, wind shouldn't exist and the flag shouldn't be like the one on the photograph

Angel
 

Offline Jaramillo

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Re: Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #6 on: 20/06/2003 08:23:29 »
When I was a kid I had a doctor that looked just like Colonel Sanders. I hated that guy, he was a sadistic ?#$%^&**((!

quote:
Originally posted by Ians Daddy

As an ex-Navy photographer, I can speculate that it had alot to do with the lighting. Since there must have been an issue with lighting and apature (light allowance) settings, as well as flash issues, the amount of surrounding darkness would cause for a difficult shot. I've heard all the conspiracy theories about us not actually landing on the moon, but staging it in a studio in order to win the "Space Race". My belief is that we indeed landed there and the picture is authentic. The stars were there, we just couldn't see them. It would be like in a film where the subject comes into focus in the foreground after we've been focused on the background, or vice versa. The subject (astronaut) was in focus (foreground) and the stars were not (background).
Then again, it could all have been a hoax and we've all been duped into believing that we were there by a plotting and evil government.
Just a thought.

What's on the dark side of the moon? I've heard that we have clandestine labs for the ultra wealthy powers of the world and that Elvis and Colonel Sanders hang out up there... :)

 

Offline Bin Laden

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Re: Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #7 on: 20/06/2003 09:45:56 »
quote:
Originally posted by Ians Daddy

Hehehe...I actually visited the dark side of the moon once while listening to Pink Floyd. It was very smokey there and smelled of burning brush. It was quite dark there and I think the surface is covered in a bean-bag like substance. It must have been due to the lack of gravity, but I remember when I returned, I was famished.



I have some quality Afghan opiates i can send you if you ever want to go back there... my caves full of the stuff.

Bin.

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Offline Ians Daddy

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Re: Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #8 on: 20/06/2003 10:52:08 »
I appreciate the offer, Mr. Laden, but I gave all that up some years ago. I bet there are some officials in Washington that would love some though. Give 'em a call...They'd be glad to come to your place to pick it up.
 

Offline Nigel

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Re: Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #9 on: 20/06/2003 19:11:57 »
The strange it's-a-hoax fairytale about Project Apollo not actually happening started with a Fox video feature. It caused a lot of amusement and bemusement among my friends in the US, and many did not get around to answering because of these reasons, because they thought it wasn't worth it, or just because they were gobsmacked. Fox did very very well in the US by cooking up this story, and had very high viewer ratings, but it actually was a piece of misleading science fiction. Orson Welles's radio reading of The War of the Worlds caused near-panic in the late 1930s, and some people believed the more recent re-run. I also remember an excellent fictional documentary that reported on how the US and (then) Soviets had set up a collaborative space station on the dark side of the Moon. Same sort of stuff, but with a real event to build on.

Anyway, I suggest the following sites for further information. No need for me to recapitulate what they have to say in this forum.

newbielink:http://www.csicop.org/si/2003-03/commentary.html [nonactive]
newbielink:http://www.asi.org/adb/j/02/noapollo.html [nonactive] newbielink:http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/2001-04-09-ncguest1.htm [nonactive]
newbielink:http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html [nonactive]
newbielink:http://pirlwww.lpl.arizona.edu/~jscotti/NOT_faked/ [nonactive]


 

Offline Quantumcat

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Re: Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #10 on: 21/06/2003 01:06:23 »
angel, the flag would be like that because there is hardly any gravity to pull it down, I think.

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Offline Ians Daddy

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Re: Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #11 on: 21/06/2003 06:00:47 »
I believe the "flag" was more a board than a flag. A poster on a stick. I think they planned for the gravity / air factor. Just a thought.
 

Offline PG

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Re: Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #12 on: 26/06/2003 21:53:39 »
A couple of points

Arthur C. Clarke addressed all these issues in his book "A Fall of Moon Dust", written in the early sixties (?) well before the moon landings. The (very good) book was about a daring rescue of some tourists on the moon. One sub-plot was the TV reporters covering it. In it the reporter, who got the scoop, debated as to whether or not to show the stars in the TV picture. The true picture was was to not show the stars, because to the eye the sunlit moon is so bright you can't see the stars. But viewers expect them, and the camera could be set to pick them up. (Being a good cynical reporter, he did what the public wanted.) The reasoning still applies, except the cameras haven't gotten that good yet. The other thing is that after the rescue (sorry for giving the plot away) when the new tourist bus heads out, they have flags waving on the dock-side, moved by electric motors.

The flag issue was actually a well known one. The folks who put a man on the moon actually knew that there was no wind on the mood (how clever they were) and also that people wanted to see it. If you really look at the picture, there is a horizontal rod on the top of the flag. The flag came with the rod folded down, and they unfolded it on the  moon (also note the wrinkles in the flag from being folded up). Due to the low gravity on the moon, the joint for the rod didn't have to be very strong. If you do want to see the flag wave, go to the NASA web site. One of the downloadable movies is from a automatic camerea left on the moon that took a TV picture of one of the acsents from the moon. The rocket blast of the ascent engine turned the flag around and made it wave. (And yes to send the signal to the camera to look up and watch the ascent stage go up, they had to factor in the three second time delay it took for the signal to get there). And yes, I am old enough to have seen that live on TV.

The bigger point is that poeople would rather believe a big lie than a small one (Hitler actually said that). So the theory is that the moon landing was all staged. OK. And the poeople involved were clever enough to do that, but unfortunately were stupid enough to film it on a set where the wind was blowing. OK. And it was blowing hard engouh to make a flag stand straight, but not enough to blow any dust up. First you cross a probability and credibility barrier. Then you cross an impossibility barrier. Then you cross an ridiculous barrier. And the further you go out in that direction, the more (not less) people are willing to believe it. It's a superiorty thing. The trick is to claim that by reaching a state of stupidity that is almost physically impossible to reach, you can prove that you are smarter than people who actually work for a living. The point is to be so dim as to not to be able to figure out to put a rod on top of the flag so people could see it, but to still be smarter than the entire moon project put together. Well, its sentiment like that that Bush got elected and got his war.

The point of "if they could put a man on the moon..." was that for once in history you had a lot of people all pushing the same way to get something done, and look what a great thing they did. Outside of that,however, most people choose to be ignorant, and push against making things better.

One of the engineering managers at one of the airplane companies that built the command module, when asked why he was so excited about it said "we finally get to build something without guns in it".  Arthur C. Clarke was right in his broader message : the world needs a challenge. There has got to be more to life than watching wars on TV and buying dog food on-line. Without it, we are the exact same people who brought the world the Dark Ages. We need something to build that "doesn't have guns in it". The moon project was actually done for all of the wrong reasons, and NASA has never recovered, but it proved it could be done. It's either that, or burn witches.



 

Offline Ians Daddy

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Re: Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #13 on: 27/06/2003 00:01:20 »
PG,
Very interesting. I'll have to take a look at that book. Maybe they'll make it into a film that won't do it justice.

I say we give the witches guns and send them to the moon and then burn NASA. I'll bet that hinge on that flagpole cost us in excess of $4 million.

I do believe that we should join together to do something positive. However, I don't agree with conquering the universe until you can fix the world until you can fix the nation until you can fix the state until you can fix the town until you can fix the home.

Just a thought.
 

Offline McGee

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Re: Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #14 on: 11/07/2003 23:29:30 »
I read a simple explanation for the star thing.  Think about the landing happening on the "day-side" of the moon.  The sky is not blue because there is no atmosphere.  Regardless of atmosphere, the sun's light is still bright enough to block the view of the stars.  You'd not even be able to see the "dark side" of the earth while on the moon.  How cool would that be?  Be on the moon to observe a lunar eclipse, which I guess would an 'earth eclipse' if you were on the moon.....

McGee

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Offline NakedScientist

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Re: Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #15 on: 01/11/2003 23:15:51 »
This thread addresses the question raised by Bezoar in relation to the moon landings. I refer you specifically to the post by Nigel Hey on the subject.

TNS
 

Offline tweener

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Re: Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #16 on: 04/11/2003 04:19:31 »
There are some really good posts in this thread.  To me, one of the overwhelming arguments saying that we did go to the moon is that there is NO WAY that a coverup of that magnitude could have been kept secret with the thousands of people working on the project.  NO WAY!

Also, I believe that the human race needs a challenge.  We will never fix the problems "at home" (whatever level you want to choose).  There will always be people pushing backward.  There will always be poverty.  There will always be war. But if the top part of the race doesn't move ahead, we have the dark ages again.


----
John
 

Offline Ians Daddy

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Re: Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #17 on: 04/11/2003 05:16:29 »
Very good point, John.
The cars do have to follow the engine.
 

Offline tom

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Re: Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #18 on: 06/11/2003 11:55:09 »
Ask KGB.
 

Offline Brad Guth

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Re: Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #19 on: 29/12/2003 19:47:20 »
There actually is a thin sodium atmosphere near the surface, thus a flag in such low gravity might actually move, especially when considering that the solar weather at the time was anything but minimal.

Unfortunately, that thin sodium atmosphere isn't worth squat as far as fending off any of those pesky micro-meteorites.

Though regarding those missing stars. They were in fact there, and should even have been somewhat difficult to have avoided on even relatively slow film. Keeping in mind that the average lunar surface reflective index was supposedly 11%, mostly dark basalt, whereas some portions of the lunar surface had to have been nearly soot (5% reflective). Thus with a good (nondestructive) digital scan of some of those original negatives and/or transparencies would have pulled out the stars (even of the leader/trailer portions would have recorded the exposure dosage from solar and cosmic plus whatever secondary of hard x-ray issues). Though the 250+ millirems per day of radiation dosage should have rather noticeably damaged most images.
newbielink:http://guthvenus.tripod.com/moon-04.htm [nonactive]
 

Offline Ylide

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Re: Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #20 on: 30/12/2003 00:43:19 »
How is sodium present as a vapor in such a cold atmosphere?  I know sodium vapor is also used in near-absolute-zero experiments and I always kinda wondered how it can be vaporous at low temps where it SHOULD be a solid.



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Offline OmnipotentOne

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Re: Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #21 on: 19/02/2004 00:37:05 »
Speaking on that topic, I read somwhere that Armstrong screwed up his grammer and said "One small step for mankind, and one giant leap for mankind"  Anyone else ever hear of that?
 

Offline neilep

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Re: Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #22 on: 23/02/2004 18:56:40 »
Yep....what he said was 'One  small step for man, one giant leap for mankind'...when he should have said...'one small step for A man, one giant leap for mankind'......I mean tcch!! tcch!!......it's not as if he was under any pressure or anything !!!!!

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Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #23 on: 03/07/2007 22:50:04 »
I have a friend that does not believe we landed on the moon.  He says this because there are no stars in the backgroud of the pictures that were taken while up there on the moon.  Does anyone know why that is?

Quite clearly itīs because they faked the video. and couldīnt add in the stars as it would have been 1. too dificult and 2. Allowed people who understood astrology to prove it was fake.

The reason we dont see stars on the earth during the day is because we have an atmosphere.
The moon doesnīt have an atmosphere, some may contend it has a small one, either way the atmosphere doesnt glow a bright colour during the daytime and block out the stars; like the earths does!

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Offline ukmicky

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Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #24 on: 03/07/2007 22:59:01 »
You think they couldnt fake a sky full off stars. If they wanted to fake a moon landing and thought that they needed stars in the sky that would have been one of the easiest part of the scam to pull off. However if you could see stars then it would be fake.
« Last Edit: 03/07/2007 23:01:46 by ukmicky »
 

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Did we land on the moon?
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