The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: Did we land on the moon?  (Read 202863 times)

Offline Bored chemist

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8667
  • Thanked: 42 times
    • View Profile
Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #225 on: 11/09/2008 19:28:02 »
It started out as a joke at the expense of the 2 populations to lighten up the international diplomatic talks, but it got out of hand.
You know how it is when the victim of a joke really falls for it and you can't resist carrying on. Well, unfortunately once quite a lot of people had died, the politicians on both sides realised they couldn't get away with saying "April fool!" and hoping everyone would just laugh about it so they have to carry it on.
 

Offline Cosmored

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 60
    • View Profile
Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #226 on: 13/09/2008 22:13:33 »
Quote
The retroreflectors on the moon were put there by an act of God.

Unmanned craft with reflectors attached to their sides could have soft-landed on the moon.  Reflectors are not proof that there were people on the moon.  If the Surveyor program was not a hoax, they had the technology to do that. 

Quote
Well, if the Russians were in on it and the Americans too, what about the Chinese?
No, come to think of it  it's easier to say "OK, you are right; everybody on the plannet has been lying to you all along."
If Chinese newspapers were saying Apollo was a hoax, the US press woundn't have reported it.
« Last Edit: 13/09/2008 22:16:02 by Cosmored »
 

paul.fr

  • Guest
Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #227 on: 13/09/2008 23:11:28 »

If Chinese newspapers were saying Apollo was a hoax, the US press woundn't have reported it.

Why?

Again, if this was a hoax and the Russians were in on it, the Chinese knew about it, then what was the point?
why would Russia allow itself to look inferior to the US?
why do you so badly want this to be a hoax?
 

Offline Bored chemist

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8667
  • Thanked: 42 times
    • View Profile
Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #228 on: 14/09/2008 10:34:09 »
The US papers might not have reported it, but you seem not to have noticed that roughly 95% of the world's population doesn't live in the US.


The rest of us would have heard about it- via Japan would be an obvious route for the information to have travelled.
Or are you now saying that not only the Russians and the Americans are in on this but the Chinese, Japanese, UK, Australian... and so on are all part of the conspiracy. It seems a lot of trouble to go to in order to mislead the people of Africa (they seem to be the only ones who haven't had a mention yet).
 

Offline Cosmored

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 60
    • View Profile
Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #229 on: 14/09/2008 16:20:26 »
Quote
why would Russia allow itself to look inferior to the US?
This is from my other post on page 9.
 
Quote
Watch these videos.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=moonfaker++cold+war&search_type=&aq=f

You should read Chomsky's analysis of the cold war.  It's in a book of his called "Deterring Democracy"

He talks about how both the US and the Soviets exagerated about the confrontation they were having in order to scare their respective populations into going along with their policies.  According to Chomsky they were cooperating much more than we knew.

Quote
why do you so badly want this to be a hoax?
If it were to turn out not to be a hoax, I'd be happy about it. The evidence leads to a hoax.
 
I keep posting the same stuff over and over.  You people respond as if I hadn't posted anything. 
 
Look at the first post on this thread and post #23.
http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/51606/1/
 
If you think the evidence doesn't prove they didn't go to the moon, say why.  Somebody post something he or she considers proof that they went and we can discuss whether it's really proof.
 
Quote
The US papers might not have reported it, but you seem not to have noticed that roughly 95% of the world's population doesn't live in the US.


The rest of us would have heard about it- via Japan would be an obvious route for the information to have travelled.
The same people who control the US press seems to control the press in a lot of countries.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Ruling_Elites/BilderbergClub.html
 
In some places everybody thinks the missions were faked.

http://www.nardwuar.com/vs/bill_kaysing/index.html
(excerpt)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, how did the media fall for this?
Well, the media doesn't fall for anything. The media is controlled by the government. The Dutch papers on July 21  said that the moon landing was a hoax, was a fake, and I have been unable to find any of those Dutch papers, although it's well documented that they did publish information, with proof, that the U.S. was spoofing everybody.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Lot's of Americans go abroad and find out things that the press ignores or of which the press gives an upside-down view.  There are lots of Americans who know things about which the government lies or ignores.  If those things don't appear in the mainstream press, it's not a big problem for the government.  Word travels through the grapevine but it doesn't reach everybody.

Here's an example.  Americans learn in school that the US defends freedom and democracy in the world.  Look at the truth. 
http://mtwsfh.blogspot.com/

(Enter "Torture", or "Death squads" in this search engine)
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/htdig/search.html

Lots of Americans know the truth and they protest outside the capital building.  Lots of people still believe the official version though.

Why should it be any different for Apollo?
 

paul.fr

  • Guest
Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #230 on: 14/09/2008 17:28:35 »
Quote
If it were to turn out not to be a hoax, I'd be happy about it. The evidence leads to a hoax.
 
I keep posting the same stuff over and over.  You people respond as if I hadn't posted anything.
 

What evidence? All you ever give are links to youtube and ask us to read a book.


Quote
Well, how did the media fall for this?
Well, the media doesn't fall for anything. The media is controlled by the government. The Dutch papers on July 21  said that the moon landing was a hoax, was a fake, and I have been unable to find any of those Dutch papers, although it's well documented that they did publish information, with proof, that the U.S. was spoofing everybody.

well documented by who? conspiracy theorists?
 

Offline Bored chemist

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8667
  • Thanked: 42 times
    • View Profile
Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #231 on: 14/09/2008 18:39:41 »
From Cosmored
"I keep posting the same stuff over and over. "
Yep, we noticed.
"In some places everybody thinks the missions were faked."
Name one.

I note with mild amusement that you don't believe the official reports because they come from the government (and it's agencies whether closet or overt) but you believe a man who is perfectly openly trying to sell his book.
« Last Edit: 14/09/2008 18:43:39 by Bored chemist »
 

paul.fr

  • Guest
Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #232 on: 15/09/2008 01:18:42 »
Im getting confused now, can we start a list (oh god, not another list) of who was in on the conspiracy?

The Americans (NASA, Gov. Officials)

The Russians. They knew and went along with the hoax, even starting wars and arming persons fighting the Americans just to keep the pretence up.

The Chinese (possibly)

The Dutch knew and reported it in their press.

who am i leaving out?

« Last Edit: 15/09/2008 11:46:20 by Paul. »
 

lyner

  • Guest
Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #233 on: 16/09/2008 14:12:20 »
You missed out the conspiracy theorists of the day who found out about it all and yet, amazingly, kept quiet and suppressed their own evidence.
 

Offline Bored chemist

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8667
  • Thanked: 42 times
    • View Profile
Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #234 on: 16/09/2008 21:55:34 »
And the current ones who can't be bothered to ask someone in Holland to look up a back copy of a newspaper.
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2331
  • KIS Keep It Simple
    • View Profile
Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #235 on: 05/12/2008 14:05:18 »
It is very easy to prove or disprove what one sees on the television. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, though in short supply, especially in 1969. The clarity of the video footage and communication was pretty good too, considering the inadequate cameras used, supported by technology equivalent to a modern day pocket calculator and given the somewhat poor and unreliable coverage from mobile phones today. Some 40 years on with analogue television reception still often marred by weather interference. The photographs, video and reception were reminiscent of a full studio with lighting rather than signals picked up from the moon. Then there are the anomalies in the video footage? Together with the anomalies in the photographic footage that require scrupulous or rigorous inspection to base any conclusion about whether they did or did not land upon the moon. The arguments in the conspiracy video’s are pretty convincing and the arguments against them are pretty sketchy to say the least.

Personally I don’t believe we are capable of landing people on the moon today without radiation causing serious health problems, but there you go.

As for whether we should believe the US Government, let us remember these Words.

“Weapons of Mass Destruction” Or was that last word Distraction? Used to launch a war on a country that did not have an air force or even an effective army. Yet two of the world’s most successful aggressors were able to launch an assault on a relatively unarmed country killing and maiming innocent men women and children with their own weapons of mass destruction and at the same time convincing the rest of the world that their war is a just one.

So let us at least dismiss the arguments that deception on a huge scale is not possible. Judging by the deception from the banks and stock exchange, clearly wholesale deception and fraud is possible even today!
« Last Edit: 05/12/2008 14:06:52 by Andrew K Fletcher »
 

lyner

  • Guest
Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #236 on: 05/12/2008 19:26:45 »
A really poor 'conspiracy:
Quote
“Weapons of Mass Destruction” Or was that last word Distraction? Used to launch a war on a country that did not have an air force or even an effective army. Yet two of the world’s most successful aggressors were able to launch an assault on a relatively unarmed country killing and maiming innocent men women and children with their own weapons of mass destruction and at the same time convincing the rest of the world that their war is a just one.

So let us at least dismiss the arguments that deception on a huge scale is not possible.
How may people did it fool and for how long? Even during the situation it was not believed by many people - even the UN observers.

If radiation would have prevented the moonshots then how have people survived in the space stations for so long?

The 'inadequate cameras' used in the space shot were very expensive, studio quality models which could produce Vogue-quality pictures when the lighting was suitable. There was no shortage of lighting - 120th at f8 would have been about right for a subject in full sunlight - as on Earth. Where is the surprise that there were some excellent shots?

AND, what anomalies? That is to say which ones have still not been explained to all but the  loony few?
 (Don't list them - just read the last few hundred posts for an answer)

« Last Edit: 05/12/2008 22:19:03 by sophiecentaur »
 

Offline Don_1

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6890
  • Thanked: 7 times
  • A stupid comment for every occasion.
    • View Profile
    • Knight Light Haulage
Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #237 on: 06/12/2008 00:51:41 »
Has it ever occured to anyone that this moonlanding conspiracy nonsense just might have been the result of a little Soviet hanky panky?

They were a tad put out by the fact that the Yanks beat them to it.
 

Offline Bored chemist

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8667
  • Thanked: 42 times
    • View Profile
Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #238 on: 06/12/2008 02:06:39 »
"Personally I don’t believe we are capable of landing people on the moon today without radiation causing serious health problems, but there you go"
Yes, but you have a reputation for putting forward odd ideas that don't tally with reallity (like the idea that FMD is widespread, but unrecognised in the UK).
Also you say "is very easy to prove or disprove what one sees on the television. " which I find optimistic.
The courts would love to be able to distinguish a real image from a photoshopped one.
 

lyner

  • Guest
Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #239 on: 06/12/2008 10:21:47 »
Strength of belief in conspiracy theories seems to be inversely proportional to the level of real Science knowledge.
There is a similar relationship involving belief in most other loopy theories.
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2331
  • KIS Keep It Simple
    • View Profile
Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #240 on: 06/12/2008 10:41:58 »
Arrogance and ignorance also appear to correspond to the level of science knowledge. There is a similar relationship involving an un-questioning adherence to accepted literature.
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2331
  • KIS Keep It Simple
    • View Profile
Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #241 on: 06/12/2008 10:58:18 »
What exactly is odd about tallying foot and mouth disease outbreaks with prolonged wet weather lowering the body temperature and circulation in an animal exposed to the elements which leaves them susceptible to infection, when removing the same infected animals to warm dry laboratory conditions cures the disease? It does not flitter away, the animals defences deal with it. This is my point and the fact that veterinary surgeons are knee deep in a quagmire of animal excrement as animals are confined to conditions that would bring down the most healthy of humans to their knees as illustrated in every single outbreak in the UK and many other countries.

You state the disease was successfully eradicated and the UK is disease free, yet farm animals were exposed to the wildlife including the native and imported deer populations. These animals have never been vaccinated. We know they are susceptible to foot and mouth disease and blue tongue. So how did they get rid of the foot and mouth virus? Did they simply avoid the quagmires and kept themselves warm and dry? Just like the laboratory infected farm animals recovered from F&M?


"Personally I don’t believe we are capable of landing people on the moon today without radiation causing serious health problems, but there you go"
Yes, but you have a reputation for putting forward odd ideas that don't tally with reallity (like the idea that FMD is widespread, but unrecognised in the UK).
Also you say "is very easy to prove or disprove what one sees on the television. " which I find optimistic.
The courts would love to be able to distinguish a real image from a photoshopped one.
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2331
  • KIS Keep It Simple
    • View Profile
Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #242 on: 06/12/2008 11:04:17 »
The point that Governments are capable of fraud and deception is proven by those immortal words! You can paint whatever picture you want around it, it does not alter the fact that they did deceive and conspire!

A really poor 'conspiracy:
Quote
“Weapons of Mass Destruction” Or was that last word Distraction? Used to launch a war on a country that did not have an air force or even an effective army. Yet two of the world’s most successful aggressors were able to launch an assault on a relatively unarmed country killing and maiming innocent men women and children with their own weapons of mass destruction and at the same time convincing the rest of the world that their war is a just one.

So let us at least dismiss the arguments that deception on a huge scale is not possible.
How may people did it fool and for how long? Even during the situation it was not believed by many people - even the UN observers.

If radiation would have prevented the moonshots then how have people survived in the space stations for so long?

The 'inadequate cameras' used in the space shot were very expensive, studio quality models which could produce Vogue-quality pictures when the lighting was suitable. There was no shortage of lighting - 120th at f8 would have been about right for a subject in full sunlight - as on Earth. Where is the surprise that there were some excellent shots?

AND, what anomalies? That is to say which ones have still not been explained to all but the  loony few?
 (Don't list them - just read the last few hundred posts for an answer)


 

Offline BenV

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1503
    • View Profile
Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #243 on: 06/12/2008 12:45:19 »
The point that Governments are capable of fraud and deception is proven by those immortal words! You can paint whatever picture you want around it, it does not alter the fact that they did deceive and conspire!

A really poor 'conspiracy:
Quote
“Weapons of Mass Destruction” Or was that last word Distraction? Used to launch a war on a country that did not have an air force or even an effective army. Yet two of the world’s most successful aggressors were able to launch an assault on a relatively unarmed country killing and maiming innocent men women and children with their own weapons of mass destruction and at the same time convincing the rest of the world that their war is a just one.

So let us at least dismiss the arguments that deception on a huge scale is not possible.
How may people did it fool and for how long? Even during the situation it was not believed by many people - even the UN observers.

If radiation would have prevented the moonshots then how have people survived in the space stations for so long?

The 'inadequate cameras' used in the space shot were very expensive, studio quality models which could produce Vogue-quality pictures when the lighting was suitable. There was no shortage of lighting - 120th at f8 would have been about right for a subject in full sunlight - as on Earth. Where is the surprise that there were some excellent shots?

AND, what anomalies? That is to say which ones have still not been explained to all but the  loony few?
 (Don't list them - just read the last few hundred posts for an answer)



I think you may have missed Sophie's point - they failed to deceive, certainly not for very long.  I don't think they managed to convince the rest of the world that their war was just either - just look at France for an example.
 

lyner

  • Guest
Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #244 on: 06/12/2008 17:47:07 »
Arrogance and ignorance also appear to correspond to the level of science knowledge. There is a similar relationship involving an un-questioning adherence to accepted literature.
I try to make a point of verifying things (old or new) in as rigorous a way as possible. Using Maths and the occasional experiment - where possible- tends to verify most of the established stuff and to disprove a lot of the fringe stuff. I try not to rely just on personal feelings where Science is concerned. I also tend to believe most of what people with good track records have to say rather than romantic amateurs. It hasn't turned around and bitten me yet.
« Last Edit: 06/12/2008 17:49:22 by sophiecentaur »
 

Offline Bored chemist

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8667
  • Thanked: 42 times
    • View Profile
Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #245 on: 06/12/2008 22:30:04 »
What exactly is odd about tallying foot and mouth disease outbreaks with prolonged wet weather lowering the body temperature and circulation in an animal exposed to the elements which leaves them susceptible to infection, when removing the same infected animals to warm dry laboratory conditions cures the disease? It does not flitter away, the animals defences deal with it. This is my point and the fact that veterinary surgeons are knee deep in a quagmire of animal excrement as animals are confined to conditions that would bring down the most healthy of humans to their knees as illustrated in every single outbreak in the UK and many other countries.

You state the disease was successfully eradicated and the UK is disease free, yet farm animals were exposed to the wildlife including the native and imported deer populations. These animals have never been vaccinated. We know they are susceptible to foot and mouth disease and blue tongue. So how did they get rid of the foot and mouth virus? Did they simply avoid the quagmires and kept themselves warm and dry? Just like the laboratory infected farm animals recovered from F&M?


"Personally I don’t believe we are capable of landing people on the moon today without radiation causing serious health problems, but there you go"
Yes, but you have a reputation for putting forward odd ideas that don't tally with reallity (like the idea that FMD is widespread, but unrecognised in the UK).
Also you say "is very easy to prove or disprove what one sees on the television. " which I find optimistic.
The courts would love to be able to distinguish a real image from a photoshopped one.


What's odd about it is insisting that the disease is still present in this country even though there are no cases of it.
Incidentally, since we regularly send people into space these days it's plain that we can protect them from the radiation. As I said, your assertion doesn't tally with the facts.
 

Offline Bikerman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #246 on: 06/12/2008 22:55:22 »
Well, we need to be clear that the 'anti' lobby are saying that the Van-Allen belt is the problem and that low-earth orbits are therefore no problem.
They are wrong, of course, but let's get their argument correct.  :)
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2331
  • KIS Keep It Simple
    • View Profile
Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #247 on: 07/12/2008 09:16:10 »
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1295117/in_flight_radiation_on_flight_to_majorca_recorded_on_gammarae_ra/

Apparently, The Van-Allen belt is a huge problem. Manned space flight at low orbit is also a huge problem with radiation passing through the crafts, space suits and bodies of the astronauts. Oddly enough flight at 37 thousand feet also presents some huge problems for regular passengers and crew on long haul and relatively short haul flights.

So I took a scintillating Gamma Ray detector onboard a flight to Mallorca to see if there was any fluctuation in gamma radiation. The results were interesting. Someone argued that the gamma could be a result of collisions with other particles. The equipment used was the Gamma Rae pager, a very reliable monitor for gamma.

Gamma is a small proportion of the radiation that passes through and collides with particles on our planet. So the question arises as to how much radiation is present in low level orbit?

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=14327.0  Link to post on inflight raditation

Andrew K Fletcher
« Last Edit: 07/12/2008 09:19:22 by Andrew K Fletcher »
 

lyner

  • Guest
Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #248 on: 07/12/2008 12:22:56 »
Quote
Apparently, The Van-Allen belt is a huge problem. Manned space flight at low orbit is also a huge problem with radiation passing through the crafts, space suits and bodies of the astronauts.
So does that mean that the radiation situation is or is not comparable for Moon Shots or Low Earth Orbit? And how does months and months of space station exposure compare with a couple of weeks on a Moon trip?
What evidence can you quote about the expected Moon Shot radiation effects?
 

lyner

  • Guest
Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #249 on: 07/12/2008 12:26:17 »
AKF; perhaps you could furnish me with an example of one of the 'Anomalies' to which you referred - as part of a pro-conspiracy argument.
If I explain it away validly, will you acknowledge it?
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Did we land on the moon?
« Reply #249 on: 07/12/2008 12:26:17 »

 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
 
Login
Login with username, password and session length