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Offline witsend

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« Reply #100 on: 12/06/2009 22:10:10 »
Golly Vern.  Thanks for the info.  Can't get over that I now know someone who lives in the dreaded alley.  I love watching tornedos from the safe distance of Africa.  We never get them here.  A force of nature.  I keep tapes on them made by storm chasers.  Love the excitement - but they're massively destructive.  I've seen pictures of whole towns blown away.  Could never work out why people live in wooden houses when they're so vulnerable.  Glad to hear you've got brick.  But they can also lose the odd roof, wall windows - whatever.

If I lived there I'd build the main house below ground level.  With a cement roof!!  Glad all's well.  I'll post again tomorrow.  Hope you'll be around.  It's definitely my bed time.
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #101 on: 12/06/2009 22:21:34 »
Tornadoes are not bad as long as you get out of their way.

This is a  link about Cabot We get our share of tornadoes. The last to actually hit our town was in 1976. My wife and I were both at work and came home to destruction. But our house was spared. Our six kids were in school. It missed the school by less than a block.

Quote from: the link
A devastating tornado hit downtown Cabot during the afternoon of March 29, 1976, killing five people and destroying multiple buildings. During the rebuilding of the city, it was decided to build a new city hall, municipal courtroom, library (since relocated), and police station on the site of the debris-filled dividing point between the east and west sections of Main Street, creating City Plaza. Arkansas Highway 89, which follows the same path as West Main Street in Cabot, was redirected around City Plaza along one block of Second Street, to continue its path along Pine Street just south of the Cabot High School campus.
 

Offline jerrygg38

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« Reply #102 on: 13/06/2009 00:29:41 »
Golly Vern.  Thanks for the info.  Can't get over that I now know someone who lives in the dreaded alley.  I love watching tornedos from the safe distance of Africa.  We never get them here.  A force of nature.  I keep tapes on them made by storm chasers.  Love the excitement - but they're massively destructive.  I've seen pictures of whole towns blown away.  Could never work out why people live in wooden houses when they're so vulnerable.  Glad to hear you've got brick.  But they can also lose the odd roof, wall windows - whatever.

If I lived there I'd build the main house below ground level.  With a cement roof!!  Glad all's well.  I'll post again tomorrow.  Hope you'll be around.  It's definitely my bed time.

I have to worry about tornados also. When I lived in New York it was hurracaines. In Virginia Beach one Hurricain stood over our house for over a day. It kept circuling.
  Another one knocked down 15 trees. Now in Cary North Carolina I don't have to worry about hurricaines but we occassionally get some tornados.
If things get bad we can run into a little room under the stairs in the middle of the house. However it has been over 20 years since a bad tornado did any damage. A few weeks ago one touched down in Cary but did no damage. In general once the storms pass over the mountains, they are weak. The tornados seem to like the flat land best. I am at 500 foot elevation.

  Once in Connecticut I was in the middle of a tornado. It was strange. I pulled into a parking lot and the tornado hit. My rental car was rocked up and down slightly. The water on the ground flowed upward into the air. It was over in a few minutes. My hotel had no lights when I got their. They said I could cancel the reservation. But where to go. So I found the room using my cigarette lighter.
  All night long I slept fearing what would happen if the motel caught fire. How would I escape in the pitch dark. No exit lights were working and my lighter had little fuel.
  Finally I woke up in the daylight. To my surprize there was an exit door in the room to the terrace. We were only a few feet off the ground. I could have walked right out the door to safety if the motel was on fire.
  Anyway often up north and in Cary we get F1 tornado's. Some are even F 0.5 even though they usually just specify F1. So you can be in a tornado and have little damage. The house roof could blow off. Windows broken but no real danger to many people. Of course in Tornado alley, they get some pretty bad stuff. Houses should all be built with an internal safe room good for 200 miles per hour.
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #103 on: 13/06/2009 01:39:26 »
They depict tornados on this TV newscast with little yellowish curls

I think you are seeing the radar image of a hook echo.
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #104 on: 13/06/2009 05:12:30 »
Yeah; hook echoes show up, but the news cast enhances the reported sightings with the yellow graphic curly things. It is helpful. We can know where the knot of the storm is and follow its progress.
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #105 on: 13/06/2009 12:34:01 »
Quote from: witsend
Vern.  Just to recap. The interaction between the 2 zippon composite and the field is proposed as the 'driving force' so to speak of the photon's path which would then radiate outwards in the neutral field of that curved framework of the primary magnetic field.  In effect, all the photon's two composites would then do is systematically swap places with each other.  No real expenditure of energy.  Just a closed system.  The actual electromagnetic interaction comes when it is moved, not courtesy it's own energy but courtesy the the energy from the field that then rejects one half of the photon's composite.
I first thought that the 2c might be needed to alternate movement so that the composite movement comes out to c, but this does not seem to be so. Then that gets me back to wondering howcome 2c?
 

Offline witsend

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« Reply #106 on: 13/06/2009 13:22:51 »
Hi Vern.  Delighted to see you're there.  I'm going to read through the thread and answer your last post. Glad to see that all survived your storms.  I read up about Cabot's destruction - 30 odd years back?  That's scarey.  It must have crippled some re-insurers.

I've got the whole afternoon/evening free - bar some cooking.  So I intend plodding on and hopefully you'll be around now and then to review.  Need to catch up and will get back to you.

Edit - I see I'm a FULL MEMBER.  How did that happen?  It must be some kind of distinction.  I think it means that contributors need to treat me with due courtesy and respect!!  I am now a fully initiated and honory peer.  Take heed those Sophiecentaurs of this strange universe of the forum!! ???

And Paul, a new contributor?  He makes you look like a beginner Vern.  One more post at a total of 5000.  I so regret joining this so late.  I should have joined 10 years ago.  Was the forum around then?
« Last Edit: 13/06/2009 13:38:59 by witsend »
 

Offline witsend

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« Reply #107 on: 13/06/2009 13:59:44 »
Then that gets me back to wondering howcome 2c?Vern

It's a ratio of the composite size of the zippon to the photon.  2c half the composite of the photon (same question is it volume/size/what??) twice the velocity.  The photon 2 zippons, twice the (volume/size) therefore half the velocity. 

I take it you get the interaction with the field - when the two truants also interact or 'swap lattices'?  And I take it that you see that the zippon has no idea of the truants until they 'tresspass' on that boundary.  The blog description of the 'frequency' interaction of the photon with the primary field is a one step, two step, turn around dance action.  Bit repetitive.

Now.  I could also find a stable interaction with the field in a composite of three zipons.  I've proposed that this is an electron.  The biggest truant is a bit like the photon.  The second truant is same mass/size/velocity of the zipon in the field.  But it's in antiphase with the field.  The third anchoring truant or quark - same as the photon.  Here the charge to the field is 3 from the truants and 1 from the field.  The field and the 1 from the truant composite cancel and it leaves 2 charges.  These give the composite 2 directions.  So.  A continual interaction with the field and an intermittant interaction while the two outer truants move towards the field to swap their lattices.  This could also be OK because, in a bubble chamber an electron spirals - and if it were interacting with magnetic fields in that chamber - then it would definitely spiral.

Which means that the 'interactive moment' with the field would be much like a photon but would take a third longer to complete.  It would simply flicker out of view, or vanish - for a little bit longer.
 

Offline jerrygg38

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« Reply #108 on: 13/06/2009 14:02:47 »
W:Apparently string theory math is postively exotic. But always remember, they've cracked the code. They just haven't found the particle.
JG: On Page 286 “The Trouble with physics” Lee Smolin, he says
   “So I sympathize strongly with the plight of string theorists who want both to be good scientists and to have the approval of powerful people in their field. I understand the difficulty of thinking clearly and independently which acceptance in your community requires belief in a complicated set of ideas that you don’t know how to prove yourself. This is a trap it took me years to think my way out of.”

  Sorry W, the String theorists have only made their own code. Their ideas are quite foolish. From a practical point of view their ideas are pure nonsense. They make pretty pictures but the universe is a more simple place. It is basically 3 dimensional except when we go to plank length. Then we only see tiny differences in time dimensions which are easy to understand.

W: I actually need 10. It's because the magnetic fields have three dimensions of space (share ours) but operate in a different time dimension. We've sort of defined that? I think so.
JG: I agree with you on that. Except the plus magnetic field is in one time dimension and the minus magnetic field is across the barrier in the other time dimension. The time difference between the dimensions is Plank time
  Delta time = 1E-44 seconds approximately.
 

Offline witsend

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« Reply #109 on: 13/06/2009 14:08:21 »
Hi JerryGG38 - I know we've got something similar here.  I think your's is more likely to be right.  But I can't wrap my mind around the thought that those magnetic monopoles could stay apart.  Just through the force of attraction.  But, in any event.  Let's suppose something.  Let's say that your's is a more fundamental view.  Mine a secondary event.  Right or wrong - at this stage they're both ideas.

Delighted to see that you're around. 
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #110 on: 13/06/2009 14:12:37 »
Quote from: witsend
Edit - I see I'm a FULL MEMBER.  How did that happen?  It must be some kind of distinction.  I think it means that contributors need to treat me with due courtesy and respect!!  I am now a fully initiated and honory peer.  Take heed those Sophiecentaurs of this strange universe of the forum!! Huh?
It is a little magical property of this forum. The more posts you have, the more rating you get. When your posts exceeded 100 you became a full member.
 

Offline witsend

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« Reply #111 on: 13/06/2009 14:13:35 »
JerryGG38 - BTW - Your model also needs multi dimensions.  Surely?  I have no idea of string theorists, but Smolen aside, there are quite a few such theorists at every university and they swear they've reached that magical unification of all the forces.  The problem is that no-one including themselves, seem to fully understand what they've found.  And there are just so many different answers.  Which doesn't help
« Last Edit: 13/06/2009 14:16:08 by witsend »
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #112 on: 13/06/2009 14:14:48 »
Quote from: witsend
I take it you get the interaction with the field - when the two truants also interact or 'swap lattices'?  And I take it that you see that the zippon has no idea of the truants until they 'tresspass' on that boundary.  The blog description of the 'frequency' interaction of the photon with the primary field is a one step, two step, turn around dance action.  Bit repetitive.
I don't quite get the vision of the lattice. I know about lattices that flowering plants grow on, little boards arranged in a pattern; but I am sure that you have some other vision of it.
 

Offline witsend

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« Reply #113 on: 13/06/2009 14:15:18 »
Hi Vern.  I guessed as much when I saw the distinction of the sheer number of posts by different contributors.  I intend to catch up quick.  Did you read my composite electron?
 

Offline witsend

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« Reply #114 on: 13/06/2009 14:19:47 »
Lattice - purely an imaginary line defined by the charges moving together through that axial spin.  I had an idea it fitted with your description of the movement of the photon.  For that matter, also with JerryGG38's. 
 

Offline witsend

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« Reply #115 on: 13/06/2009 14:25:51 »
Re lattices - Vern.  I also think that the primary field would then form a kind of lattice.  But the whole concept of lattice is wrong if it implies anything static.  Perhaps I should use another term.  Happy to take suggestions.

I'd love you to think of a way of showing this through your trick with those moving shapes.
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #116 on: 13/06/2009 14:31:00 »
Quote from: witsend
I'd love you to think of a way of showing this through your trick with those moving shapes.
I haven't quite got the picture well enough established in my mind. I might could do it when I get the picture. I don't want to spend a lot of effort making something that is not your vision.
 

Offline jerrygg38

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« Reply #117 on: 13/06/2009 14:41:24 »
JerryGG38 - BTW - Your model also needs multi dimensions.  Surely?  I have no idea of string theorists, but Smolen aside, there are quite a few such theorists at every university and they swear they've reached that magical unification of all the forces.  The problem is that no-one including themselves, seem to fully understand what they've found.  And there are just so many different answers.  Which doesn't help

Yes. I need three time dimensions. However the three time dimensions are very simple. Look at the hands of a clock. Right now we are at time zero. A split second ago we were at minus time. A split second into the future we will be at positive time. Therefore three time dimensions fit into differential equations quite readily.
   The strange dimensions of string theory are beyond our ability to conceive of them. We really cannot discuss them because they do not relate to anything we can imagine.
  My multi-lightspeed dimensions are merely things that travel and exist at higher or lower light speeds. This we can conceive as well. However we exist quite well independent of the other light speed dimensions.

   For the universe to exist at all, it is my belief and the belief of many scientists that ultimately we must find a very simple solution to the basics of the universe. String theory is too outrageous to be possible.
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #118 on: 13/06/2009 14:46:02 »
JerryGG38 - BTW - Your model also needs multi dimensions.  Surely?  I have no idea of string theorists, but Smolen aside, there are quite a few such theorists at every university and they swear they've reached that magical unification of all the forces.  The problem is that no-one including themselves, seem to fully understand what they've found.  And there are just so many different answers.  Which doesn't help

Yes. I need three time dimensions. However the three time dimensions are very simple. Look at the hands of a clock. Right now we are at time zero. A split second ago we were at minus time. A split second into the future we will be at positive time. Therefore three time dimensions fit into differential equations quite readily.
   The strange dimensions of string theory are beyond our ability to conceive of them. We really cannot discuss them because they do not relate to anything we can imagine.
  My multi-lightspeed dimensions are merely things that travel and exist at higher or lower light speeds. This we can conceive as well. However we exist quite well independent of the other light speed dimensions.

   For the universe to exist at all, it is my belief and the belief of many scientists that ultimately we must find a very simple solution to the basics of the universe. String theory is too outrageous to be possible.

John Wheeler said
Quote
Some principle uniquely right and uniquely simple must, when one knows it, be also so obvious that it is clear that the universe is built, and must be built, in such and such a way and that it could not possibly be otherwise.

I suspect that simple principle is
Quote
The final irreducible constituent of all physical reality is the electromagnetic field.
« Last Edit: 13/06/2009 14:47:39 by Vern »
 

Offline witsend

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« Reply #119 on: 13/06/2009 14:51:03 »
This is the first mention I found of the concept. It comes from one of Einstein's articles. Development of Our Conception of the
Nature and Constitution of Radiation


Quote from: the link
H. Ziegler: If one thinks about the basic particles of matter as invisible little spheres which possess an invariable speed of light, then all interactions of matter like states and electrodynamic phenomena can be described and thus we would have erected the bridge between the material and immaterial world that Mr. Planck wanted.

Vern - I had to find this again.  Way back.  This thread is already getting too big.  Ziegler - 'invisible little spheres'

Let's start with that - with a north south - or plus minus demarction in those spheres.  Then the big spins towards the small - presenting appropriate charge, and the small spins to the big - also presenting appropriate charge.  The demarcation could also be a north/south axis so when they present they fit - north to south on both truants.  

But let your designs wait.  The picture is much more complex becasue both truants have two charges and if they also 'swap places' then there should also be a partial influence from the field.  Quite complex really.  Maybe better to get the whole picture and then apply that mind of yours to the details.  As I wrote that level of definition is way, way beyond me.  I've only got the skeleton.  You guys can sort out the shape. 
 

Offline witsend

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« Reply #120 on: 13/06/2009 14:54:19 »
The final irreducible constituent of all physical reality is the electromagnetic field.Vern

I agree.  I totally and wholeheartedly agree - BUT with one proviso - that the magnetic part of that electromagnetic interaction is not in our dimension.  Except for this difference I ENTIRELY agree.   ;D
« Last Edit: 13/06/2009 14:56:35 by witsend »
 

Offline jerrygg38

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« Reply #121 on: 13/06/2009 14:57:02 »

I suspect that simple principle is
Quote
The final irreducible constituent of all physical reality is the electromagnetic field.

Yes. Since I have eliminated the necessity for the independent property of mass, all we have left is pure electrical theory.
 

Offline jerrygg38

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« Reply #122 on: 13/06/2009 14:59:38 »
The final irreducible constituent of all physical reality is the electromagnetic field.Vern

I agree.  I totally and wholeheartedly agree - BUT with one proviso - that the magnetic part of that electromagnetic interaction is not in our dimension.  Except for this difference I ENTIRELY agree.   ;D


Verns statement does not specify what dimensions the fields occupy. It could be three , four, five , ten etc.
 

Offline witsend

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« Reply #123 on: 13/06/2009 15:02:01 »
Yes. Since I have eliminated the necessity for the independent property of mass, all we have left is pure electrical theory.EDIT - sorry JerryGG38

What do you mean?  I cannot understand how you can eliminate mass.  It's tangibly evident - everywhere?
« Last Edit: 13/06/2009 15:04:20 by witsend »
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #124 on: 13/06/2009 15:06:39 »
Yes. Since I have eliminated the necessity for the independent property of mass, all we have left is pure electrical theory.Vern

What do you mean?  I cannot understand how you can eliminate mass.  It's tangibly evident - everywhere?
Mass is electromagnetic change. :) Any time that change exists in a local area, it is mass. It is the only way the arithmetic works. This is standard stuff; not just my concept. It is just that we don't usually think of it that way.

BTW; the quote was from jerrygg38 not me but I agree with it.
 

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