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Offline jerrygg38

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« Reply #250 on: 16/06/2009 14:39:17 »
That settles it. We now know the whole story. It is a Bernie Madoff con game. The people who you are involved with got the ideas from con men. It is all about money. It is all about making sukers out of investors.It has nothing to do with science or Engineering. It is a pure con game.Jerrygg38

I'd agree with you if any of us actually tried to make money out of this.  It at least would then have a real justified application. 

Once you said that BB demonstrated this to a large group of people, that to me means Con Game. the originator was trying to make money. You are just an innocent victim of this con game.
 

Offline witsend

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« Reply #251 on: 16/06/2009 14:53:56 »
Once you said that BB demonstrated this to a large group of people, that to me means Con Game. the originator was trying to make money. You are just an innocent victim of this con game.  Jerrygg38

I AM the originator.  The demonstrations were FOR FREE.  NOBODY has tried to make money.  IF I am a vicitm - then it is certainly not from being DUPED into paying money to anyone.  Nor have I charged anything to anyone.  MONEY DOES NOT COME INTO THE EQUATION AT ALL.  I am sublimely indifferent to money - except in as much as it enables my lifestyle and my interests.  For that I have enough money.  And there have been many more than ONE demonstration.  There have been MANY. 

May I ask you to excercise some restraint in your extraordinary presumptions.  Alternatively could you exercise some restraint in their expressions.  It hardly reflects badly on the people associated with this experiment if that is your object.  They simply are anxious to get the effect explored at an academic forum.  And your rather liberal unfounded accusations only prove that you have not studied the context of their involvement.  To suggest that their qualifications are sub-standard is actionable.  I would sooner recommend you find out the facts before you parade your opinions on this.

Me you are welcome to criticise.  I believe I can almost hold my own.  But when it comes to attempting to disgrace the calibre of the engineers associated with this accreditation you are stepping on really thin ice.
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #252 on: 16/06/2009 14:54:59 »
Quote from: jerrygg38
What brand air conditioner.  I have the carrier. I had to replace the motor electronics recently. It is very expensive.
  Carrier has a variable speed motor which constantly changes speed. If you have a carrier AC then it is a special motor. In general most of the window AC have simple motors.

  Therefore the results you had may be due to the expensive special motors and not to the general AC motors.


Here's a web site that explains the run capacitor a little bit. I think it misses the point that the capacitor size must make a tuned circuit of the motor-capacitor under load.

Quote from: the link
    Two basic types are used in electric motor:
    1) Run capacitors are rated in a range of 3-70 microfarad (mfd). Run capacitors are also rated by voltage classification. The voltage classifications are 370V and 440V. Capacitors with ratings above 70 microfarad (mfd) are starting capacitors. Run capacitors are designed for continuous duty, and are energized the entire time the motor is running. Single phase electric motors need a capacitor to energize a second phase winding. This is why sizing is so critical. If the wrong run capacitor is installed, the motor will not have an even magnetic field. This will cause the rotor to hesitate at those spots that are uneven. This hesitation will cause the motor to become noisy, increase energy consumption, cause performance to drop, and cause the motor to overheat.

    2) Starting capacitors are housed in a black plastic case and have a mfd range as opposed to a specific mfd rating on run capacitors. Start capacitors (ratings of 70 microfared or higher) have three voltage classifications: 125V, 250V, and 330V. Examples would be a 35 mfd at 370V run capacitor and an 88-108 mfd at 250V start capacitor. Start capacitors increase motor starting torque and allow a motor to be cycled on and off rapidly. Start capacitors are designed for momentary use. Start capacitors stay energized long enough to rapidly bring the motor to 3/4 of full speed and are then taken out of the circuit.
« Last Edit: 16/06/2009 14:59:45 by Vern »
 

Offline jerrygg38

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« Reply #253 on: 16/06/2009 15:02:54 »
So the question is why does W believe that she can contribute something to this very complex field filled with the most brilliant of people? My reason is an encounter with an intelligence field. What could hers be??????????????????Jerrygg38

 I want to hear more about this experience of yours.  But I think that BenV and - more to the point Sophiecentaur will object to any such discussion in a science forum.  Can you please tell us about it - and then point out where the thread is?  I think it's allowed in the Chat section, or some such. 

I also want to know about that dream of 5 dimensions.  It sounds amazing.  Where did you post that thread? EDIT Sorry. I should have said which thread did you post that in? EDIT  In fact, for any language purists, I should have said 'in which thread did you post it'?   
Quote

I used to discuss such things on various religious and philosophical groups. If you want a copy of my "Aliens within Us" just email me your address and I will send you a copy. You could also buy it from Amazon. It is down to $1 per copy plus postage. I gave all of them away. My Doppler Space Time sold pretty good but my Aliens only sold very few. Most I sent to Libraries for free and they ended up at Amazon.com or the grabage can.

 The problem with religion and philosophy is that it is based upon the experiences of people thousands of years ago. Thus ignorance and superstition became religious dogma. In general I believe in a spiritual force. This is my God. However I am not convinced that this spiritual force has anything to do with the religions of man. All I can say is that God is the God of all religions. God is the creative force of the Universe.
  The big problem with religious discussions is that the interaction evidence is extremely subjective. How can one tell if one is speaking to God or to ones own inner mind? Thousands of years ago people heard voices and believed it to be God. Now we know that the voices we hear come from our own minds.
  So all the religious leaders of the past experienced periods of insanity in which they believed they were communicating with God. I have experienced such things as well.
  The only question I have is the possibility that various people pick up spiritual energy or data and then convert this data into words or visions. The data could be true or false. That is the problem.
  I pick up data and then I study it. Therefore I study my own hallucinations. The religious data is always suspect because it depends upon the individuals upbringing and history. Some data may be passed on our genes or within the womb. Such data may make some people happy but it is tainted data.
  Since I cannot correlate my data with any scientific experimental data, in the end I must cease attempting to understand such things.
  Therefore at 70 years old, I must say that I do not know what lies ahead. And finally I no longer care. Since I continually fail in my scientific theories and must continually revise them, how could I possibly succeed in philosophy and religion?
 

Offline jerrygg38

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« Reply #254 on: 16/06/2009 15:14:19 »
Quote from: jerrygg38
What brand air conditioner.  I have the carrier. I had to replace the motor electronics recently. It is very expensive.
  Carrier has a variable speed motor which constantly changes speed. If you have a carrier AC then it is a special motor. In general most of the window AC have simple motors.

  Therefore the results you had may be due to the expensive special motors and not to the general AC motors.


Here's a web site that explains the run capacitor a little bit. I think it misses the point that the capacitor size must make a tuned circuit of the motor-capacitor under load.

Quote

I assume you mean a parallel tuned circuit. A series tuned circuit would be a short circuit.
  I guess we can return to the theory that the inductive current will resonant with the capacitor and reduce the total current draw. this may reduce the motor current. Therefore it reduces the coil heat somewhat.
  The problem is that a fairly large capacitor is necessary.

  So I guess what happends is that the efficiency of the motor goes up because some of the inductive energy flows into the capacitor and returns to the motor. In all the small room AC I have bought, they only have a tiny capacitor.
 

Offline jerrygg38

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« Reply #255 on: 16/06/2009 15:19:52 »
Once you said that BB demonstrated this to a large group of people, that to me means Con Game. the originator was trying to make money. You are just an innocent victim of this con game.  Jerrygg38

I AM the originator. 

I am sorry. All your associates are incompetant or ignorant or both. There is no other explanation. Alternatively you are the talking coconut person reincarnated. You just want to talk for the sake of talking. Sorry but if they cannot be blamed then it is your fault. Perhaps they do not exist. Both your first person had BB initials and the last person BB initials. Perhaps you made them both up.
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #256 on: 16/06/2009 15:23:46 »
Quote from: jerrygg38
I assume you mean a parallel tuned circuit. A series tuned circuit would be a short circuit.
  I guess we can return to the theory that the inductive current will resonant with the capacitor and reduce the total current draw. this may reduce the motor current. Therefore it reduces the coil heat somewhat.
  The problem is that a fairly large capacitor is necessary.
Yes; the capacitor is parallel with the motor winding. The starter capacitor is a different lead on the same capacitor. It is a big capacitor; about a third the size of the motor.

I only brought up the electric-motor capacitor because there are lots of folks who think they can get over-unity out of tuning the motor circuit. I am not one of them:)
 

Offline jerrygg38

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« Reply #257 on: 16/06/2009 15:30:40 »
Quote from: jerrygg38
I assume you mean a parallel tuned circuit. A series tuned circuit would be a short circuit.
  I guess we can return to the theory that the inductive current will resonant with the capacitor and reduce the total current draw. this may reduce the motor current. Therefore it reduces the coil heat somewhat.
  The problem is that a fairly large capacitor is necessary.
Yes; the capacitor is parallel with the motor winding. The starter capacitor is a different lead on the same capacitor. It is a big capacitor; about a third the size of the motor.

I only brought up the electric-motor capacitor because there are lots of folks who think they can get over-unity out of tuning the motor circuit. I am not one of them:)


That is a big capacitor.
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #258 on: 16/06/2009 15:42:20 »
Hay; :) you managed to get your reply outside the quotes that time.
 

Offline witsend

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« Reply #259 on: 16/06/2009 15:50:37 »
Once you said that BB demonstrated this to a large group of people, that to me means Con Game. the originator was trying to make money. You are just an innocent victim of this con game.  Jerrygg38

I AM the originator. 

I am sorry. All your associates are incompetant or ignorant or both. There is no other explanation. Alternatively you are the talking coconut person reincarnated. You just want to talk for the sake of talking. Sorry but if they cannot be blamed then it is your fault. Perhaps they do not exist. Both your first person had BB initials and the last person BB initials. Perhaps you made them both up.

Like I say.  Me you're entirely free to criticise.  If I cared about your opinion on this I might even put up a defense.
 

Offline jerrygg38

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« Reply #260 on: 16/06/2009 16:46:05 »
Once you said that BB demonstrated this to a large group of people, that to me means Con Game. the originator was trying to make money. You are just an innocent victim of this con game.  Jerrygg38

I AM the originator. 

I am sorry. All your associates are incompetant or ignorant or both. There is no other explanation. Alternatively you are the talking coconut person reincarnated. You just want to talk for the sake of talking. Sorry but if they cannot be blamed then it is your fault. Perhaps they do not exist. Both your first person had BB initials and the last person BB initials. Perhaps you made them both up.

Like I say.  Me you're entirely free to criticise.  If I cared about your opinion on this I might even put up a defense.

I just looked on the internet for JLN labs. Stepfan Harmann, JL Nardin, and Dieter Bauer plus Jean louis Naudin were listed. Are these your associates? Are you Jean Naudin???

  In any event I see they used an AC scope and warned not to ground anything for the test. This is cheating and quite a hoax.
  I do not know why the hoax. If it was not for money, was it only to have something to talk about?
  I am sorry to be rough but someone deliberately produced a hoax.
 

Offline jerrygg38

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« Reply #261 on: 16/06/2009 16:47:47 »
Hay; :) you managed to get your reply outside the quotes that time.

The trouble is that I type 350 words per minute (some of the time) Perhaps the first letter!
 

Offline witsend

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« Reply #262 on: 16/06/2009 17:05:37 »
Ok. Vern. To continue through this interminable plod.  I hope it doesn't put you to sleep.  I'm so sorry I have to describe this with words.  It's all I have.

Presumably thus far the model sort of conforms to measured reality - the final arbiter?  And yet I've introduced to our natural phenomena a heretofore never considered little zipon in a magnetic field that's also proposed as a primary force. I've tried to draw correspondence to the shape and structure and behaviour of natural phenomena conforming to some correspondence with the magnetic field including the fact that the atomic energy levels could be similar to the structure of our solar system.  But included in this bigger picture are also bigger energy levels that behave in similar ways.  A gross manifestation of the first smaller atomic field.

I also tried to draw a correspondence to the event of 'fire' as a similar event to a broken string of zipons in the greater vacuum of space unravelling to produce those extraordinary nebulae.

There are a whole lot of gaps.  One is the path of the orbit of planets - not fully justified.  And the other is the fact that nuclear fire appears to have different properties to flame.  Also not fully justified.  I hope to get back to these.

What I'd like to start moving towards is my definition of broken symmetry.  And before I do that I should try and explain the little curly things, the magnetic fields that are extraneous to atoms and yet bind these atoms.

If the atom is negatively ionised, then, for symmetry I propose that these extraneous binding fields are postively ionised - or that they spin in an opposite direction.  And vice versa.  This means that if any amalgam, such as battery acid comprises molecules or atoms or both, that are predominantly and inherently repulsive then they will compensate for this by finding an opposite spin.  The proposal is that - at the point of manufacture - these amalgams were bound by these extraneous fields.  They still reflect the imbalance of the atoms - but have reversed their justification to compensate.

This does nothing to change the potential of that imbalanced amalgam.  The fields are neutral.  It's just that the fields spin in the same direction as each other.  They have the same charge or justification.  So, inherently, all those fields actually repel each other.  Forever trying to move away.  It's closest analogy would be to a single magnetic monopole - but obviously - its actually only a single justification.  So these fields always reflect the valence condition of the atoms that they 'hold together'. They're still not detectable because they are essentially neutral.  And, in any event, they are operating outside our measurable dimensions.

The proposal is that magnetic fields always move towards a condition of balance or, I think you engineers refer to it as zero net charge.  In other words, in order to establish that balance they first need to change the justification of their spin so that one half of them spin in one direction and the other half spins in the other direction.  That's just because these little zipons need to do what all magnets do.  They want to balance.

If you look at the way permanent magnets move - if they want to change their justification they have to move the entire body of the magnet before they attach. They can't just 'reverse' their magnetic fields.  In the same way I'm proposing that the only way these little magnetic fields can change their direction is by moving through a full orbit in order to present an alternate charge or justification back to that imbalanced amalgam.  

Please let me know if this is clear - and then, I'll plod on.  

  
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #263 on: 16/06/2009 17:13:57 »
You seem to be self consistent so far; I guess that is all we should require of new ideas about how nature works. I can get the vision you are imagining, - explaining. 
 

Offline witsend

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« Reply #264 on: 16/06/2009 17:15:14 »
That was really quick.  Thanks.  It'll take a while to get to the next step.  But I'll get there.
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #265 on: 16/06/2009 17:36:11 »
I usually read posts twice before I respond; sometimes this helps me avoid dumb responses; sometimes not. :)
 

Offline witsend

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« Reply #266 on: 16/06/2009 19:58:34 »
OK.  We've established that these amalgams may comprise magnetic fields that bind different materials.  In a resistive load I'm proposing that the imbalance in the atomic structure of iron or it's alloys also reflects this state.  The atoms are intrinsically imbalanced.  The magnetic fields are holding the atoms of the amalgam together, but they've arranged the atoms in a random pattern in order to minimise the 'charge imbalance' of the atoms in that amalgam.  The fact that the metal in a resistor is hard, in comparison to copper, for instance, is precisely because of this need to separate like atoms that have an inherently imbalanced condition.  And like the atoms in the liquid battery acid amalgam, these fields are still unipolar - or monodirectional.  They all share the same justification.  And, as in the battery amalgam, the actual charge or spin of the fields are opposing each other.

The copper wire is different.  Here the binding fields again reflect the valence condition of the copper atoms.  But copper does not have an imbalanced valence state.  It has I think it is 2 electrons in its outer energy level.  For symmetry their spin would balance out.  So all those extraneous fields have two justifications.  This is virtually a rest state or balanced state. And it allows for a more coherent crystalline structure.  And because there isn't any inherent repulsion, there is not the same degree of stiffness in the material of the copper itself.  It's more malleable.

That covers the most of the circuit components that allow for current conduction.



 
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #267 on: 16/06/2009 20:04:42 »
I can visualize the concept.
 

Offline witsend

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« Reply #268 on: 16/06/2009 20:53:22 »
This is how the model proposes that current actually flows.

The zipons, being magnetic fields can only interact with other magnetic fields because they are the only particle within the boundary constraint of the other zipons.  Else there can't be an interaction.

In order to change their spin they orbit from the one terminal to the other through the medium of the magnetic fields of the circuit components.  To start with they interact with the magnetic fields in the copper wire.  This is a relatively easy passage. If their justification or charge is say, North, then they can interact, relatively easily, with the the copper's south zipons.  They interact by presenting say, their own north, thereby forcing the north of the binding fields to extrude from the material of the wire.  These supplanted fields then do what all magnetic fields do.  They orbit the structure of the wire.  They can't resist the force of the current flow because the potential difference at the source is far greater than any force they have.  These extruded fields are measured as a magnetic field.  And the force of the current is a direct measure of the force of that extruded field.  

But when the come to the magnetic fields in the resistive wire they hit a problem.  These fields only have 1 spin. In order to interact here, or to 'hitch a ride' so to speak, they can only interact with a field that essentially only has one justification.  

Still the current is the stronger force.  It is able to force the required number of extruded fields in the resistor to adjust its spin to the required south. The balance of the fields in that resistor move to compensate for this altered state.  Simultaneously the atoms, that were previously held apart are now exposed to each other's like charge.  The ensuing chaos is such that some of these extruded fields peel off as photons.  Others stay closer to the resistor's material to manifest as truants (as in the fire description).  And the only coherent field then becomes an extruded north field that is precisely a measure of the current flowing through the structure of that resistor.  This, over time, results in a weakening of the bound state of the resistor itself.

Then the current reaches the second terminal.  It has an altered spin - which was the thing that induced the circuit orbit in the first instance.  It presents an alternate charge to the battery amalgam.  And the spin is then able to adjust the positioning of the atoms and molecules in that amalgam exactly as these atomically extruded magnetic fields adjusted the positioning of the atoms in the resitor material.

EDIT So the current flow - in terms of the model is simply the movement of these magnetic fields to alter their justification.  They come from a source and go back to that source without losing any of those little zipons.  The only zipons that are lost to the structure are the the resistor's zipons.  These systematically decay as photons or truants and they then weaken the bound state of the resistor.

And if this is right, then if a circuit is designed to return some of these fields back to the terminal without changing their spin - then charge is conserved and the battery should - at its least - exceed its watt hour rating.

SECOND EDIT.  You do not have to agree with me.  Just let me know if the reasoning is still consistent.
« Last Edit: 17/06/2009 07:34:47 by witsend »
 

Offline witsend

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« Reply #269 on: 16/06/2009 21:43:30 »
Vern, I'm so wide awake.  It's been a holiday here in SA.  Youth day.  And our country takes its holidays very seriously.  So I've had about 6 hours interrupted to work on this thread.  EDIT What I'm trying to say is that on and off I've managed about 6 hours of writing.  And a glorious day.  Surprise break in the weather.  God's in His universe and all's well with the world - and so on.

The only blemish was the unfettered insults from sundry contributors.  Such malice.  I wish I knew what I could possibly have done to deserve that.  But I'm getting used to the extraordinary passions of the scientific mind.

Regarding your post in the OTHER THREAD for want of more specific reference - I realise that questioning is a critical part of the progress of science.  But questions are always a pleasure.  I welcome it.  Critical input is the best of all things.  I'm waiting for yours.  And I'm still not through the model.  But I think I've cracked the most of it.

Hope I entertained that lighning fast mind of yours.  I'll post tomorrow. I'm going to see if I can relax for a bit.  I'll never sleep unless I do.
« Last Edit: 16/06/2009 22:00:54 by witsend »
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #270 on: 16/06/2009 22:09:39 »
I don't get the reasoning where you feel you can get more zipons back out of the restive inductor than you put into it. The inductive circuits I am familiar with will give a kick back of much higher voltage than the source voltage but voltage times current is a little less than the charging voltage times current. The kick back can happen in less time than the charging.

You seem to still be consistent.
 

Offline witsend

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« Reply #271 on: 16/06/2009 22:16:03 »
I haven't really dealt yet with the inductive element in the cycle.  I see now this is the next plod.  But I'll definitely leave it until the moring - or I'm in for another night of - what my family call - buzzing.  I start and then don't seem to know how to stop.

Glad to hear it hasn't offended the logic.

I've been keeping my dogs quiet by feeding them marrow bones.  The floor looks like an archeological dig.  I must try and tidy up. 

Thank you Vern - for your input - the more so as it hasn't been destructive.
« Last Edit: 17/06/2009 07:27:57 by witsend »
 

Offline witsend

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« Reply #272 on: 18/06/2009 19:17:35 »
I don't get the reasoning where you feel you can get more zipons back out of the restive inductor than you put into it.  Vern.

These concepts are confusing because I'm forever describing the same thing at different values and levels.  For ease of reference I propose to draw some distinctions.  Let's say that the zippons from the battery acid amalgam can be the source zipon.  So current flow will relate to these zipons only.  In the same way the zipons in the copper wire are carrier zipons because they just open out to allow a path for that flow of current.  And the zipons in the resistor are the target zipons because that's where the work is done.

The target zipons, as in all solid amalgams, were introduced to that amalgam when the resistor was manufactured.  The proposal is that heat was transferred to a loose but unbound refined amount of iron and sundry alloys.  In terms of this model all heat is the result of extraneous fields of zipons in material, such as coal, coke, whatever, that have had their strings broken through applied friction.  This sets off a chain reaction where the strings of zipons unravel to manifest as truants. The truants have lost momentum but gained mass.  They then manifest as flames.  These flames or truants, in turn, now transfer their mass into the molten material.  They do this because it's their nature to form in fields and its their nature to extend their magnetic influence wherever they can in order to find a balance.  But when that material cools, all that happens is that the truants lose their mass, regain their momentum and they are then retained in that molten material of that iron alloy which is no longer loose but bound.

In effect, the zippons  that first bound the fuel, have simply found a way to disperse through space into a new medium and they now bind the iron alloy amalgam in the same way that they previously bound the carbon atoms or somesuch, in the first instance.  It's a transfer of energy and a physical transfer of the actual magnetic fields from one amalgam to another.

But the bound condition of the iron alloy is not a loose arrangement. The iron atoms in that amalgam, have an imbalanced charge because their outer energy levels have an imbalanced electron.  It means that every iron atom repels every other iron atom.  So.  During the process of cooling, those extraneous binding target zipons also have a sympathetic orbit to these atoms - but in anti phase to the atom.  But that also means that each extraneous orbit conflicts with every other orbit.  And therefore, during the process of cooling these fields arrange the atoms into some arrangement that minimises their own conflicting charge.  The crystalline structure of the iron amalgam is random to allow for this arrangement.  But it also means, that on a quantum level the arrangement is such that the extraneous target zipons have managed to position themselves, and their spins in such a way that they do entirely conflict.  They have a like spin or justification, but they have managed to adjust their positions to avoid a - head on confrontation, so to speak with juxtaposed extraneous target zipons.  The net result is that they have balanced their own charges and, in so doing neutralised that amalgam.

Sorry Vern.  I'll have to complete this in another post.  I think this is enough.  Please let me know when you've read this.  I'll press on in any event.
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #273 on: 18/06/2009 19:55:41 »
I read the last post a couple of times so far; I can't understand it well enough to even determine if it is consistent. I'll have to go through it a few more times.
 

Offline witsend

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the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #274 on: 18/06/2009 20:05:35 »
I'm just so glad you're there.  I felt I was talking into a big black hole.

I'm only describing the known random positioning of atoms in an iron amalgam.  No coherent crystalline structure. Also tried to describe the transfer of zipons from one amalgam to another through the process of applied heat.

But read on.  I'm still working on your actual question.  The eternal difficulties of a dedicated plodder.
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #274 on: 18/06/2009 20:05:35 »

 

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