The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: Why Did Not The Big bang Just Make A Black Hole ?  (Read 3584 times)

Offline neilep

  • Withdrawnmist
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 20602
  • Thanked: 8 times
    • View Profile
Dearest Bigbangologists,

Dy'a like my Big Bang ?




Pretty eh ?..being delivered next Tuesday !



If at the moment of the Big bang the universe was comprised into a very dense small thing....then why did it not collapse to make a Black Hole  ?
...

Or did it ?..and that this Universe is on the other side/inside ?

What do you think ?


Neil
Bothered About Black Holes
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


 

lyner

  • Guest
Why Did Not The Big bang Just Make A Black Hole ?
« Reply #1 on: 13/06/2009 15:50:10 »
There was clearly enough energy for everything to escape! From your picture, you can tell there must have been quite a lot. Did you actually take that picture of the event?
 

Offline neilep

  • Withdrawnmist
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 20602
  • Thanked: 8 times
    • View Profile
Why Did Not The Big bang Just Make A Black Hole ?
« Reply #2 on: 13/06/2009 17:46:29 »
There was clearly enough energy for everything to escape! From your picture, you can tell there must have been quite a lot. Did you actually take that picture of the event?

Why yes ..yes I did....I held my breath a real long time too !  ;)
 

Ethos

  • Guest
Why Did Not The Big bang Just Make A Black Hole ?
« Reply #3 on: 13/06/2009 17:52:13 »
There was clearly enough energy for everything to escape! From your picture, you can tell there must have been quite a lot. Did you actually take that picture of the event?

Why yes ..yes I did....I held my breath a real long time too !  ;)

Gosh Neileeee, I figured you for about forty-ish?? I must be off by some 13.7 billion years,......Huuuh?

BTW,.....nice pic old timer, nice pic.
« Last Edit: 13/06/2009 18:19:03 by Ethos »
 

Offline LeeE

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3382
    • View Profile
    • Spatial
Why Did Not The Big bang Just Make A Black Hole ?
« Reply #4 on: 13/06/2009 18:03:47 »
There was clearly enough energy for everything to escape! From your picture, you can tell there must have been quite a lot. Did you actually take that picture of the event?

Why yes ..yes I did....I held my breath a real long time too !  ;)


Umm... where did you take it from?  Just curious because I didn't think there was any 'outside' from where you could have taken it.  Are you sure that it's a proper Big-Bang you've bought, and not just some old clapped-out second-hand supernova, that you'll never get through its next MOT?
 

Offline neilep

  • Withdrawnmist
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 20602
  • Thanked: 8 times
    • View Profile
Why Did Not The Big bang Just Make A Black Hole ?
« Reply #5 on: 13/06/2009 20:20:01 »
There was clearly enough energy for everything to escape! From your picture, you can tell there must have been quite a lot. Did you actually take that picture of the event?

Why yes ..yes I did....I held my breath a real long time too !  ;)

Gosh Neileeee, I figured you for about forty-ish?? I must be off by some 13.7 billion years,......Huuuh?

BTW,.....nice pic old timer, nice pic.

I had the use of HG Wells's time machine....and an umbrella and a thermosflask !  ;)
 

Offline neilep

  • Withdrawnmist
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 20602
  • Thanked: 8 times
    • View Profile
Why Did Not The Big bang Just Make A Black Hole ?
« Reply #6 on: 13/06/2009 20:24:58 »
There was clearly enough energy for everything to escape! From your picture, you can tell there must have been quite a lot. Did you actually take that picture of the event?

Why yes ..yes I did....I held my breath a real long time too !  ;)


Umm... where did you take it from?  Just curious because I didn't think there was any 'outside' from where you could have taken it.  Are you sure that it's a proper Big-Bang you've bought, and not just some old clapped-out second-hand supernova, that you'll never get through its next MOT?

I bought it from 'Big-Bangs R Us' they cater for all your Big-Bang  & Big-Bang related needs. It was "Hi I'm Reginald" who sold it to me ! I took it for a test drive..it all seems kosher !

The picture is from their catalogue of astronomical & cosmological phenomena !  ::) ::)


 

Offline thelastman

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 25
    • View Profile
Why Did Not The Big bang Just Make A Black Hole ?
« Reply #7 on: 14/06/2009 00:25:31 »

If at the moment of the Big bang the universe was comprised into a very dense small thing....then why did it not collapse to make a Black Hole  ?


My opinion:

Black holes are part of our Universe and applying the concept to the singular point just prior to or at the Big Bang is like applying the concept of "Swimming" to ice (or to freezing).  Water and ice are separated by a critical point we call the freezing point and this point separates two qualitatively different phenomena:  water and ice.  Concepts applicable to water, such as "swimming" loose meaning when applied across the critical point.  Likewise, we cannot apply "black holes" across the singular point (Big Bang) to that which preceded it:  what came before the Big Bang is probably qualitatively different than what came after it because the Big Bang was likely a critical point in some larger dynamic system we can call the pre-existence.  A firecracker is another example.  We cannot use the debris and burnt embers after the critical point (the explosion), as a model for what preceded the explosion:  gun powder.  Again, that's two qualitatively different states separated by a critical point.  Echos of our origins are all around us. :)



 

Offline Raghavendra

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 835
  • Quantum
    • View Profile
    • Raghavendra
Why Did Not The Big bang Just Make A Black Hole ?
« Reply #8 on: 15/06/2009 07:00:27 »
The energy could not bind them
 

Offline Soul Surfer

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3345
  • keep banging the rocks together
    • View Profile
    • ian kimber's web workspace
Why Did Not The Big bang Just Make A Black Hole ?
« Reply #9 on: 15/06/2009 09:18:08 »
I personally feel that the most probable answer to this is that the universe IS a black hole and we are inside of it.  The precise mechanisms of how a whole large universe can be inside a modestly sized black hole (in a different universe with a similar history to ours) are difficult to explain but most of them appear in fragments in the standard theories  (including string and inflationary theories).  The problem is that the mathematicians quickly take the rotating(Kerr) black hole to its theoretical mathematical limit without looking at what the physics says should happen in the period between the initial collapse inside the event horizon and the formation of a theoretical ring singularity.  My thesis is that you could end up with something that looks very like our big bang universe.

This concept is so obvious and simple and many people with a knowledge of science feel that it is logical but for some reason the theoreticians have not taken it up seriously yet.  I have been trying for years to get through to a serious theoretician to ask him why the problem which should be handlable with modern computer modelling and requires no quantum gravity initially has not been attempted.

One weird thing about this idea is the tardis like nature of the universe in that a thing as big heavy complex as our universe may only be a few miles across and weighing a few solar masses in its "parent" universe but the theory is all there in the standard texts.  All the mass and energy comes from the conversion of rotational energy to matter as angular momentum is conserved during the collapse process and the extra gravity is hidden from the parent universe by the negative gravity effects within a Kerr black hole.
 

Offline Vern

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2072
    • View Profile
    • Photonics
Why Did Not The Big bang Just Make A Black Hole ?
« Reply #10 on: 15/06/2009 12:34:27 »
The maths don't work for the universe being inside a black hole. So, the concept requires a re-figuring of all the maths.
 

Offline Soul Surfer

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3345
  • keep banging the rocks together
    • View Profile
    • ian kimber's web workspace
Why Did Not The Big bang Just Make A Black Hole ?
« Reply #11 on: 15/06/2009 13:26:06 »
You are I believe wrong. Assuming a symmetrical spherical collapse of a body At the instant that the event horizon forms around the black hole at some distance from the centre the gravitational field (curvature of space) inside the event horizon is below the event horizon limit for that radius for two reasons firstly the smaller the hole the greater the field needed to create a black hole and inside a body the gravitational field falls to zero at the centre.  This means that all the normal laws of physics will apply and what is going on can be modelled using relativistic fluid dynamical theory even if inside the static external event horizon a second contracting event horizon forms and contracts.  everything inside that box will be "normal".
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Why Did Not The Big bang Just Make A Black Hole ?
« Reply #11 on: 15/06/2009 13:26:06 »

 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums