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Author Topic: Is perpetual motion possible?  (Read 7853 times)

Offline blossom

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Is perpetual motion possible?
« on: 28/07/2009 08:08:38 »
Has anyone achieved a perpetual motion machine yet?  The subject has always fascinated me.  If the answer is that noone has produced one, what is on offer for someone to achieve making one, moneywise, worldwide?  I'd be interested to know, for example, is there anyone like Lloyds of London that has a cash offer to build one?  Thanks for any ideas or help. 


 

Offline Don_1

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perpetual motion
« Reply #1 on: 28/07/2009 09:24:31 »
Ooer, now you've done it!
A PM machine........ look out for the responses......... DUCK!!!
 

lyner

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perpetual motion
« Reply #2 on: 28/07/2009 13:40:49 »
 best not get involved
 

Offline Bored chemist

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perpetual motion
« Reply #3 on: 28/07/2009 19:21:03 »
"Has anyone achieved a perpetual motion machine yet? "
No.
Nor in any plausible way are they likely to.
 

Offline HankRearden

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perpetual motion
« Reply #4 on: 29/07/2009 03:47:56 »
pffffffffft, you can break the second law of thermodynamics right?
 

Offline Nizzle

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perpetual motion
« Reply #5 on: 13/08/2009 10:31:15 »
Aren't you going to jail then?  :o
 

Offline Stefanb

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perpetual motion
« Reply #6 on: 14/08/2009 03:35:28 »
Haven't you ever met a working mom?
 

lyner

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perpetual motion
« Reply #7 on: 14/08/2009 11:11:18 »
They juggle, too!
 

Offline Don_1

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perpetual motion
« Reply #8 on: 14/08/2009 13:15:58 »
Haven't you ever met a working mom?

That'll be the day.......Tell me when its safe to come out!
 

Offline Turveyd

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perpetual motion
« Reply #9 on: 16/08/2009 23:32:38 »
I recently solved this problem!!!

In a childrens play ground they have a cup shaped thing which rotates at an angle if you keep absolutely still the sucker still speeds up proving it's possible!! :)

All we need is 1 Billion Chinese people taking shifts spinning around to power the world,  easy!!



* this is a joke,  but I swear that sucker does speed up!!

 

Offline Thibeinn

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Re: perpetual motion
« Reply #10 on: 25/07/2013 13:53:01 »
Nature seems to have done it as motion is both universal and eternal.  Absolutely nothing we know of in the Universe is in a state of absolute rest even for a single moment.  An object may appear to be at rest in a certain frame of reference but when viewed from another, it is found to be in motion.

Example: a cup sitting on a table seems to be at rest but it is really in motion due to the rotation of the Earth.

If we can figure out how Nature does it then we may be able to do it ourselves someday.

Maybe my thread, "Seeking Your Opinions on the Purpose of Motion", can help in some small way.

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=48422.0
« Last Edit: 25/07/2013 14:00:53 by Thibeinn »
 

Offline Thibeinn

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Re: Is perpetual motion possible?
« Reply #11 on: 26/07/2013 02:00:24 »
Quote from: Thibeinn
Nature seems to have done it as motion is both universal and eternal.  Absolutely nothing we know of in the Universe is in a state of absolute rest even for a single moment.  An object may appear to be at rest in a certain frame of reference but when viewed from another, it is found to be in motion.
Perpetual motion usually refers to what is known in physics as a perpetual motion machine. Please see details and clarification at newbielink:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion [nonactive]

Physics has no problem with perpetual motion in the sense that the motion does not stop. Newton’s second law states that any body will continue in its state of motion or at rest unless acted upon by a force. However a perpetual motion machine is not a machine which is in perpetual motion (I know. That name is confusing, isn’t it?). A better name is free energy machine.

Thermodynamics prohibits the existence of perpetual motion machines. So if someone actually created one that works then they’d have proven that one of the laws of thermodynamics is wrong. They’d then win the Nobel Prize which is about a million bucks if I recall correctly.

Pmb,

I understood from the start.

I was thinking along the line that if we could figure out and duplicate how Nature maintains perpetual motion then we may be able to figure out how to make a perpetual motion machine.

Figuring that out may then pave the way for figuring out how to make a free energy machine.
 

Offline Pmb

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Re: Is perpetual motion possible?
« Reply #12 on: 26/07/2013 03:01:35 »
Quote from: blossom
Has anyone achieved a perpetual motion machine yet?
Perpetual motion excists. Perpetual motion machine can't exist according to one of the laws of thermodynamics. If someone created one then they'd have found a way to prove that law wrong. That would earn them the Nobel Prize which I think comes with a million bucks.

 

Offline RD

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Re: Is perpetual motion possible?
« Reply #13 on: 26/07/2013 08:09:43 »
I was thinking along the line that if we could figure out and duplicate how Nature maintains perpetual motion then we may be able to figure out how to make a perpetual motion machine.

No perpetual motion in nature : e.g. Earth's rotation is slowing ...

Quote
Earth's rotation is slowing slightly with time; thus, a day was shorter in the past. This is due to the tidal effects the Moon has on Earth's rotation. Atomic clocks show that a modern day is longer by about 1.7 milliseconds than a century ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_rotation
« Last Edit: 26/07/2013 08:11:29 by RD »
 

Offline njskywalker

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Re: Is perpetual motion possible?
« Reply #14 on: 26/07/2013 18:07:51 »
If you base your MACHINE off biology you can achieve perpetual motion.
 

Offline RD

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Re: Is perpetual motion possible?
« Reply #15 on: 26/07/2013 20:40:19 »
If you base your MACHINE off biology you can achieve perpetual motion.

The apparent reduction of entropy in growing life is a local effect :
 if its whole environment is included here is [always] an overall increase in entropy ...

Quote
The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of an isolated system never decreases, because isolated systems spontaneously evolve towards thermodynamic equilibrium—the state of maximum entropy. Equivalently, perpetual motion machines of the second kind are impossible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics
« Last Edit: 26/07/2013 20:48:55 by RD »
 

Offline ScientificSorcerer

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Re: Is perpetual motion possible?
« Reply #16 on: 27/07/2013 13:12:15 »
yes, I got one and it works great!   
 

Offline Thibeinn

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Re: Is perpetual motion possible?
« Reply #17 on: 27/07/2013 15:48:36 »

No perpetual motion in nature : e.g. Earth's rotation is slowing ...


Even if the Earth's rotation stopped altogether, it would still orbit the Sun.  If the Earth stopped orbiting the Sun, it would still move toward the Sun and merge with it.  It's mass would then become part of the Sun's motions of rotation and the Sun's orbit around the galaxy.

If the Sun were to eventually stop orbiting the galaxy, it would move toward and merge with the galactic hub.  It's mass would rotate with that.

Tha galaxy is moving is some way with respect to the Local Group [of galaxies].  If it merged with them, it's mass would still move along with the Local Group's motion through the universe.

Ad infinitum.

No matter what happens, motion never ceases in the Universe.
« Last Edit: 27/07/2013 15:54:06 by Thibeinn »
 

Offline RD

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Re: Is perpetual motion possible?
« Reply #18 on: 27/07/2013 18:07:41 »
Ad infinitum

No matter what happens, motion never ceases in the Universe.

Matter will not exist for an infinite period of time ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terasecond_and_longer#Yottaseconds_and_beyond

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe
« Last Edit: 27/07/2013 18:21:12 by RD »
 

Offline Thibeinn

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Re: Is perpetual motion possible?
« Reply #19 on: 28/07/2013 00:30:20 »
Matter will not exist for an infinite period of time ...

It may become energy. Then that energy may become mass again. Then that mass may become energy again.  On and on.

The "heat death of the Universe", nor any other "death of the Universe", which would result in all motion ceasing has not been proven to be a definite event. Thus, to the best of our current scientific knowledge, all things are in perpetual motion.
 

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Re: Is perpetual motion possible?
« Reply #19 on: 28/07/2013 00:30:20 »

 

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