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Author Topic: What complementary remedies are there for H1N1 Influenza?  (Read 46726 times)

Offline Simpleton

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What complementary remedies are there for H1N1 Influenza?
« Reply #50 on: 09/08/2009 09:38:21 »
Final thought for today, as I do have to get on...

The other possibility is... have the vaccine (if offered and available), then you don't even get the flu in the first place! Great. Or not.

Question: Should I take the planned new H1N1 vaccine, should I advise my family to take it?

Perhaps it is a good question for a poll?  My last poll was quite unsuccessful, but will perhaps try again.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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What complementary remedies are there for H1N1 Influenza?
« Reply #51 on: 09/08/2009 11:36:51 »
Simpleton,
you say " I want Relenza in my first aid kit, but I want some herbs, tinctures and fruits too".
Why?
Do you have any evidence that any of them will help?
Which ones will you choose and on what basis would you chose them?
If it's not on the basis of empirical evidence then your thoughts on the matter are unscientific. If you repeatedly post unscientific claptrap on a science forum you can expect to be ridiculed.

If you also choose to insult the people who point out the problems with your ideas then, to say the least, it hardly supports your case.
 

Offline Simpleton

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What complementary remedies are there for H1N1 Influenza?
« Reply #52 on: 09/08/2009 11:58:28 »
Hi, thanks for the comment.

Quote
Simpleton,
you say " I want Relenza in my first aid kit, but I want some herbs, tinctures and fruits too".
Why?

Relenza, as I fear that Tamiflu will soon become ineffective, leaving only side effects.

Quote
Do you have any evidence that any of them will help?

Yes. Historically and traditional, when not scientifically (from other countries' methods and practices).
It would be interesting, for example, to here from some German, Chinese or Australian Medicinal Herbalists on the subject.

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Which ones will you choose and on what basis would you chose them?
Great question.  That was, in essence my original question in the first post... that is what I am hoping to qualify on this journey... ahh, a ray of light.

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If it's not on the basis of empirical evidence then your thoughts on the matter are unscientific. If you repeatedly post unscientific claptrap on a science forum you can expect to be ridiculed.

1. Perhaps.
2. My shoulders are broad, and anyway I'm getting into the swing of it now. Constructive criticism is also positive.

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If you also choose to insult the people who point out the problems with your ideas then, to say the least, it hardly supports your case.

I did apologise to BenV, and I would also like to apologise to you. Uncalled for...Sorry...
Please be assured, I do value your opinion and will try to behave better in the future.

My apology refers to this...
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Actually, what is more of a wonder to me, is that there are people, like you, looking to criticise, ridicule and add worthless petty argument to such an important topic, in order to satisfy some apparent intrinsic desire to appear worthy and intelligent before peers and onlookers...get a grip mate, its not clever and you ain't gonna win any new friends.
« Last Edit: 09/08/2009 12:09:09 by Simpleton »
 

Offline Variola

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What complementary remedies are there for H1N1 Influenza?
« Reply #53 on: 09/08/2009 18:27:34 »
Quote
The other possibility is... have the vaccine (if offered and available), then you don't even get the flu in the first place! Great. Or not.


Quote
The other possibility is... have the vaccine (if offered and available), then you don't even get the flu in the first place! Great. Or not.

????

Of course you get the 'flu, thats how vaccines work.
What you don't get is the full blown disease.

Quote
I mean lets look at it in a basic, honest way... what is the advice from the highest sources of medical knowledge in the UK?  The medical community says... stay in bed, take an asprin or 2, drink fluids and take a drug that is, by the day becoming less and less effective AND has unknown long-term side effects. GREAT! With the final advise being...Sorry everyone, that's it, we can't advise further and remember, please don't visit your doctor, unless you stop breathing, then call 999. Finally, don't forget, if you or your family members die, we really did give it our best shot and advised you on all the possible remedies, honestly.


What exactly do you expect the medical community to do? Doctors are not Gods ( although some think they are!)
This is what irks me about people, they expect conventional, actually lets drop the word conventional, medicine to be able to cure something hey presto.
What do you think it is, magic?? (Rhet)
 If you go to the doctor with an ailment, you expect pills creams or potions to put it right, and if you dont get anything, people complain. Well tough titty. Medicine does not have all the answers, in fact when it comes to the human body we don't know anywhere near enough. The centuries of research into the biology of the body, and the distance we have come so far is proof of how beautifully complex it really is.
Personally I am always in awe of how stripped down and lean viruses are, and how they sneak in and out of cells, performing a coup de'tat on the way. Our immune system is well-honed to beat this, but Influenza A doesn't give in without a fight! The result being we either feel really crap for a while, or if unlucky we develop a complication and die.
Well, that is life, That is what happens in life and as yet we don't have an amazing wonder drug to combat it. We have the anti-virals, and we have the anti-microbials to combat any secondary infections,and the physiological support, but that really is about it.
The sooner people realise that the better and stop expecting medicine to have the answers for everything and criticise when it doesn't.
 

Offline Simpleton

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What complementary remedies are there for H1N1 Influenza?
« Reply #54 on: 09/08/2009 22:20:43 »
Thanks for the reply.

Quote
The other possibility is... have the vaccine (if offered and available), then you don't even get the flu in the first place! Great. Or not.

Quote
????

Quote
Of course you get the 'flu, thats how vaccines work.
What you don't get is the full blown disease.

I think I should have written "you don't even get the FULL BLOWN flu, OR DIE in the first place... Better?
Actually, vaccines are made using viruses that are either dead or severely damaged so that they can not reproduce. (Wiki).

Quote
I mean lets look at it in a basic, honest way... what is the advice from the highest sources of medical knowledge in the UK?  The medical community says... stay in bed, take an asprin or 2, drink fluids and take a drug that is, by the day becoming less and less effective AND has unknown long-term side effects. GREAT! With the final advise being...Sorry everyone, that's it, we can't advise further and remember, please don't visit your doctor, unless you stop breathing, then call 999. Finally, don't forget, if you or your family members die, we really did give it our best shot and advised you on all the possible remedies, honestly.


Quote
What exactly do you expect the medical community to do? Doctors are not Gods ( although some think they are!)

Doctors are exceptional individuals, no doubt. They dedicate their lives to helping others. What worthier cause can a human being undertake? However, Doctors, from all communities, to some extent, are constricted to where in the world they studied, what they studied, their morals and to some degree their beliefs and religion persuasion. Doctors have existed since...who knows, since mankind had illness. What I expect the medical community to do, from every aspect of its core, is to continue in the original pursuit, that being, to help others and to improve the health of humankind.

I believe in humankind's kindness and unconditional love for each other and their surroundings; even if sometimes, as in today's modern world, it doesn't always appear that way. I think that when things get tough, really tough, humans rally around each other in support. To some extent, perhaps I am a ideologist, that may be true, but I learn so much by provoking thought in others, to question what is engraved in stone, it adds to a bigger picture.

"The whole is greater than the sum of the individual parts." 1+1=3. 

Lets suppose that the first "1" is conventional medicine. The second "1" is complementary... together it produces more worth than when working alone.

After that little aside, and returning to the point, I think the time is arriving, swiftly, when much more interaction and cooperation between various disciplines of medicine should be sought.

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This is what irks me about people, they expect conventional, actually lets drop the word conventional, medicine to be able to cure something hey presto.

Hey Presto????  This is the 4th outbreak of this kind this century! Mankind will be soon wandering around on Mars but we have still no great plan to deal with this common pesky virus that keeps appearing every 30 or 40 years! Did we just hope it would not turn up again? What have we learned about this situation in the past 100 years. Which disciplines of medicine throughout history proved that their methods actually worked against it, lets hear what they have to say, lets work together testing various disciplines for the common good of all. Throw away attachments to core beliefs from inflexible disciplines and let the mind free for a moment. I am not talking about a handful of hippies preaching about the wonders of oak bark, I am referring to world medicinal belief systems. How different is the Chinese medical approach to that of the western medicine, in comparison to the Indian and African, not to forget South American. Each community has doctors, people who are dedicated to helping others. It's about time some of the walls came down.

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What do you think it is, magic?? (Rhet)
No, it's nature and it is quite magical.

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If you go to the doctor with an ailment, you expect pills creams or potions to put it right, and if you dont get anything, people complain. Well tough titty.

That's a bit hard...we do get something, Tamiflu and Relenza, Asprin, hand wash spray etc. And they have been helping, thank god!

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Medicine does not have all the answers,

(1+1=3), Certainly not one discipline alone...

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in fact when it comes to the human body we don't know anywhere near enough. The centuries of research into the biology of the body, and the distance we have come so far is proof of how beautifully complex it really is.

Really like that and so very true.

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Personally I am always in awe of how stripped down and lean viruses are, and how they sneak in and out of cells, performing a coup de'tat on the way. Our immune system is well-honed to beat this, but Influenza A doesn't give in without a fight!

Totally agree, a wonder. But would actually like to remain in awe of them a bit longer...I am not that in awe! That's why I am fighting...here now, fighting with words to gather opinions to get conversation started to speed up the process a little bit.

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The result being we either feel really crap for a while, or if unlucky we develop a complication and die.


Agree, but why limit yourself to one part of the whole especially in times of a world CRISIS, that I don't really understand.

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Well, that is life, That is what happens in life and as yet we don't have an amazing wonder drug to combat it. We have the anti-virals, and we have the anti-microbials to combat any secondary infections,and the physiological support, but that really is about it. The sooner people realise that the better and stop expecting medicine to have the answers for everything and criticise when it doesn't.

Perhaps it already exists your "wonder drug" (cure), for sure it already exists, why wouldn't it. Is it not our challenge to find out how to overcome this problem, together? We will, you know, its just a question of when and how.
« Last Edit: 09/08/2009 22:25:00 by Simpleton »
 

Offline Variola

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What complementary remedies are there for H1N1 Influenza?
« Reply #55 on: 09/08/2009 23:04:48 »
Quote
I think I should have written "you don't even get the FULL BLOWN flu, OR DIE in the first place... Better?
Actually, vaccines are made using viruses that are either dead or severely damaged so that they can not reproduce. (Wiki).

Ahh I did wonder what you meant...hence the ???
Thanks for the wiki quote but I am reasonably well versed with vaccines.

Quote
After that little aside, and returning to the point, I think the time is arriving, swiftly, when much more interaction and cooperation between various disciplines of medicine should be sought.

Which interactions as with whom?? Medicine, in my definition does not include complementary therapies.

For complementary therapies to be taken as a useful part of medicine, then some regulation, order and scientific evidence needs to be provided. It has to go under the same stringent regulation that medicine does.

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Hey Presto????  This is the 4th outbreak of this kind this century! Mankind will be soon wandering around on Mars but we have still no great plan to deal with this common pesky virus that keeps appearing every 30 or 40 years! Did we just hope it would not turn up again?

Actually Influenza A does turn up more commonly than that, it doesn't just turn up whenever it feels like it. It is usually present in some form in the human/porcine population. Its only when it mutates and shows signs of being more pathogenic that we go into overdrive. We always knew it would turn up again, in fact ever since 1918 we have been on the verge of neurotic waiting,you only have to look back at governmental behavior each time a 'new' 'flu virus has appeared.




 
Quote
What have we learned about this situation in the past 100 years. Which disciplines of medicine throughout history proved that their methods actually worked against it, lets hear what they have to say, lets work together testing various disciplines for the common good of all.

That will be microbiology and biochemistry then.( big blanket encompassing lots of different discliplines)
 Yes, it does work, we have anti-virals, they do work. Just not as well as we would like them to against this particular virus. That doesn't mean they don't work and they should not have been developed.
If you are talking about complementary therapies, we are still left with lack of ANY evidence that they do work on viruses.


 
Quote
Throw away attachments to core beliefs from inflexible disciplines and let the mind free for a moment. I am not talking about a handful of hippies preaching about the wonders of oak bark, I am referring to world medicinal belief systems. How different is the Chinese medical approach to that of the western medicine, in comparison to the Indian and African, not to forget South American. Each community has doctors, people who are dedicated to helping others. It's about time some of the walls came down.

It really isn't about entrenched beliefs, not these days. It is still about lack of scientific evidence, something duplicable, testable, not built on anecdotal evidence. its also about the lack of regulation too. If a handful of hippies could show me standard scientific evidence that oak bark had medicinal properties, I would embrace them.

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Totally agree, a wonder. But would actually like to remain in awe of them a bit longer...I am not that in awe! That's why I am fighting...here now, fighting with words to gather opinions to get conversation started to speed up the process a little bit.

I will always remain in awe of them, its a healthy awe that keeps me interested, keeps me keen and keeps me thinking about them. All essential for what I want to do in life.
With respect, all you have done so far is show how different plants/herbs *might* be of use, and how different complementary therapies may use them.
Its boring, and I harp on about it, but so far no science.

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Perhaps it already exists your "wonder drug" (cure), for sure it already exists, why wouldn't it. Is it not our challenge to find out how to overcome this problem, together? We will, you know, its just a question of when and how.

It may well do. But like medicine before, it will hopefully be discovered and then be developed tried and tested. It wont be a matter of nipping down to the local herbalist and asking what he recommends.
If you want science to take something seriously, then you have to speak its language.





 

Offline Bored chemist

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What complementary remedies are there for H1N1 Influenza?
« Reply #56 on: 10/08/2009 19:02:25 »
"
"The whole is greater than the sum of the individual parts." 1+1=3. 

Lets suppose that the first "1" is conventional medicine. The second "1" is complementary... together it produces more worth than when working alone.
"
this is a science forum so you should realise that if you can't support that you should withdraw it.

anyway, look back to the original question; the title of the thread.
What complementary remedies are there for H1N1.
Well there are lots.
For example I might tell you that wearing your socks inside-out will stop you getting it.
I could make up lots more- or I could look up the ones that others have made up.

What would I gain from this?
There are two sorts of remedies- the ones that work and the ones that don't. The ones that don't get called alternative or complimentary.
Since they don't work; who cares what they are?

Do you realise that "modern" herbalists still base their work on things like
"Yarrow was a plant of Venus (this was odd, because most devil's herbs were plants of Saturn) and, as such, was frequently consulted where love matters were concerned. "
and
"Culpepper tells us that:
'Mercury has the dominion of this plant, and therefore to be sure it strengthens the brain.... It stays the hiccough, being boiled in wine, and but smelled unto being tied in a cloth. The seed is of more use than the leaves, and more effectual to digest raw and vicious humours, and is used in medicines that serve to expel wind, and the pains proceeding therefrom...."


Do you really think that such trash based on astrology is worth reading, never mind using as the basis of medicine?

There are no doubt real medical uses for some herbs; I have mentioned a few.
There are also real side effects associated with herbs. No shock there- the difference between a drug and a poison is just the dose.
The problem is that there's a lot of rubbish talked about herbs without any basis in fact; they just claim "the ancients said it was right!".
Well the ancients didn't have a clue about how the body worked or about pharmacology. Most of them thought the Earth was the centre of the universe and that the stars were painted onto glass spheres.
Are they a reliable source?

Somehow I doubt many people reading this will think so.
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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What complementary remedies are there for H1N1 Influenza?
« Reply #57 on: 10/08/2009 20:43:28 »
Tamiflu is in the news today. Apparently it is causing more harm than the little if any good it is alleged to do.


From Tamiflu.com:     *  The #1 doctor-prescribed flu medicine for flu treatment*
    * Approved for adults and children aged 1 year and older
    * Must be taken within 12 to 48 hours from the first appearance of flu symptoms

From the National News:
Swine flu: Tamiflu 'reduces flu symptoms by just half a day'
Tamiflu reduces the length of flu symptoms by an average of only half a day, according to a new study.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/10/swine-flu-drugs-under-12s
Don't give swine flu drugs to under-12s, says study


« Last Edit: 10/08/2009 20:54:41 by Andrew K Fletcher »
 

Offline Simpleton

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What complementary remedies are there for H1N1 Influenza?
« Reply #58 on: 17/08/2009 07:52:32 »
Currently on holiday with limited internet access, will be picking up on this thread again soon...
 

Offline Bored chemist

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What complementary remedies are there for H1N1 Influenza?
« Reply #59 on: 17/08/2009 19:16:53 »
No need to cut your holiday short to discuss this.
There's nothing new about the idea that you can put up with drugs that have more side effects if you are treating a more serious disease.
It turns out that swine flu is a bit of a wash-out so, for some groups of people, it might not be worth taking tamiflu. Nobody could have known that until the epidemic struck. The planning was based on a "worst case " idea and this outbreak is a long way from that.

Of course, exactly the same would be true for a herbal remedy.

Enjoy your holiday.
« Last Edit: 17/08/2009 19:18:36 by Bored chemist »
 

Offline Simpleton

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What complementary remedies are there for H1N1 Influenza?
« Reply #60 on: 21/08/2009 16:23:52 »
Complementary First Aid Kit for H1N1 (BETA)



My first aid kit for the virus (H1N1) is currently looking like this...I still have quite some research to do, especially in relation to compatibility with other items on the list and levels of dosage.  Any comments/help would be appreciated.

@Bored Chemist...
Quote
It turns out that swine flu is a bit of a wash-out

I DO hope that you are right, especially as the vaccine in Germany is being readied for dispatch in a number of weeks, the first mass vaccination for quite some time, actually 50 years, 50 million people...  http://english.cctv.com/program/worldwidewatch/20090820/111103.shtml

Quote
Complementary First Aid Kit for H1N1 (BETA)

-Schüssler Salts (3,4,8,11) - http://www.schuesslersalts.com/
-Influcid Tablets - Homeopothy. More Info
-Swedish Bitters - Maria Treben
-Fern-leaved Biscuit-root (Lomatium dissectum) - Root if Possible and/or tincture
-White Tea (as part of fluid intake)
-Vitamin C - Toxic level (LD50), 11.9 grams per kilogram of body weight when taken orally. 6 grams of ascorbic acid were given to 29 infants, 93 children of preschool and school age, and 20 adults for more than 1400 days. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_C
-Black Elder berries
-Goji berries
-Sodium chlorite/MMS - More research
-Chorine dioxide - More research
-Vitamin D
-Garlic
-Relenza
-Tylenol and ibuprofen - more research
-Symmetrel & Flumadine - more research

Interesting Links:

Child Fever - http://healthmad.com/home-health/how-to-bring-a-fever-down-naturally/

Reduce Fever - http://healthmad.com/home-health/how-to-reduce-a-fever/

Notes:

Therefore, aspirin-containing remedies should not be given to children under 15 except on the advice of a doctor.

There are, however, a number of specific anti-influenza agents available on prescription. These include amantadine (Symmetrel) and rimantadine (Flumadine) which work by preventing the virus from shedding its coat inside cells, stopping it from multiplying. These agents can be used to protect at-risk individuals from infections, and are also able to offer limited benefit to sufferers if started within 48 hours of infection. They are, however, only active against influenza A.

It looks like increasing vitamin D intake and adding beta glucan supplements to your diet should decrease your chances of catching any flu. If you do get sick a combination of a COX-2 inhibitor in combination with a H1 Blocker: Benadryl, Claritin or Zyrtec and a H2 Blocker: Tagamet (Cimetidine), Zantac (Ranitidine), or Pepcid (Famotadine) should effectively stop the cytokine storm and the resulting lung damage. Statin drugs seem to stop the cytokine storm also, but I'm uncertain of their mechanism.

Research by; © 2009 Simpleton.
« Last Edit: 22/08/2009 11:09:43 by Simpleton »
 

Offline Variola

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What complementary remedies are there for H1N1 Influenza?
« Reply #61 on: 21/08/2009 17:08:22 »
Quote
beta glucan supplements to your diet should decrease your chances of catching any flu.

The affects of beta glucan in its ability to boost the immune system is still questionable.

Quote
If you do get sick a combination of a COX-2 inhibitor in combination with a H1 Blocker: Benadryl, Claritin or Zyrtec and a H2 Blocker: Tagamet (Cimetidine), Zantac (Ranitidine), or Pepcid (Famotadine) should effectively stop the cytokine storm and the resulting lung damage. Statin drugs seem to stop the cytokine storm also, but I'm uncertain of their mechanism.

So Ibuprofen and a good indigestion remedy?! (not for asthmatics obviously)
Statins would have too many negative side affects to warrant use.


However its still interesting research Simpleton.


 

Offline Simpleton

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« Reply #62 on: 21/08/2009 17:19:29 »
Thank you for your reply, really appreciated.

Will continue work developing each item on the list. As always I will try to remain as impartial as possible.
Thanks for the support.

Quote
The affects of beta glucan in its ability to boost the immune system is still questionable.
Need to do more research...agreed.

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So Ibuprofen and a good indigestion remedy?! (not for asthmatics obviously)
Which is not good for Asthmatics?

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indigestion remedy
Pineapple juice blended with peppermint tea and a small quantity of cinnamon could be a very good remedy for indigestion.

Quote
Statins would have too many negative side affects to warrant use.
Need to do more research...agreed.
 

Offline rosy

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What complementary remedies are there for H1N1 Influenza?
« Reply #63 on: 21/08/2009 17:51:02 »
Ibuprofen!
Some asthmatics react badly to ibuprofen, asprin or both.

In general, Simpleton, whilst what you're trying to do is in some respects admirable I never the less find it a bit worrying. If something has a curative/protective effect it follows that that effect must be the result of a physiological effect on the body. Anything with effects has side-effects, and whilst deciding to eat a bit more fruit and veg, or even add a little cinnamon to your morning toast, isn't likely to hurt anyone (fruit, veg and cinnamon being things routinely consumed by people in day to day life and so unlikely to cause any very significant negative effect, or it would have been noticed already), I'd want to ask (ideally) an immunologist some pretty searching questions about the likely effects of dosing myself up on anti-histamines before I did so.

I am not entirely comfortable with the idea that someone who doesn't know that ibuprofen is a drug people with asthma are advised to take only under medical advice* is in effect using this forum to publish a list of drugs with the suggestion that people should take them if they contract 'flu, because however much you emphasise that you are only looking for information the above list does look like a suggestion to others.

* No offence meant here... I didn't know about this until a couple of years ago.
 

Offline Variola

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« Reply #64 on: 21/08/2009 18:11:19 »
Quote
Which is not good for Asthmatics?

As Rosy has pointed out, Ibuprofen, which is one of the most common Cox 2 inhibitors is not good for asthmatics due to it increasing the action/number of leukotrienes. Not all asthmatics are affected by it, I know I am sensitive as I already take a leukotrine blocker.
Zantac (ranatidine) is a popular indigestion remedy.
 

Offline Simpleton

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What complementary remedies are there for H1N1 Influenza?
« Reply #65 on: 21/08/2009 20:08:34 »
Ibuprofen!
Some asthmatics react badly to ibuprofen, asprin or both.

In general, Simpleton, whilst what you're trying to do is in some respects admirable I never the less find it a bit worrying. If something has a curative/protective effect it follows that that effect must be the result of a physiological effect on the body. Anything with effects has side-effects, and whilst deciding to eat a bit more fruit and veg, or even add a little cinnamon to your morning toast, isn't likely to hurt anyone (fruit, veg and cinnamon being things routinely consumed by people in day to day life and so unlikely to cause any very significant negative effect, or it would have been noticed already), I'd want to ask (ideally) an immunologist some pretty searching questions about the likely effects of dosing myself up on anti-histamines before I did so.

I am not entirely comfortable with the idea that someone who doesn't know that ibuprofen is a drug people with asthma are advised to take only under medical advice* is in effect using this forum to publish a list of drugs with the suggestion that people should take them if they contract 'flu, because however much you emphasise that you are only looking for information the above list does look like a suggestion to others.

* No offence meant here... I didn't know about this until a couple of years ago.

@rosy

Thank you for your comments, especially the reaction to Ibuprofen. I am not a doctor or chemist or pharmaceutical specialist and I did not know of that reaction which is great reason to have this forum, as now I do know, as do many others. However, I would have most likely found it out from researching it - and as I do not suffer from this illness it would however not affect me personally.

My emphasis in this research is targeted for the five to seven days from the onset of fever, those days in which, should the virus become more virulent, could become life threatening. If my thinking is correct and I should survive those 5-7 days my own amazing body will produce the anti-bodies ensuring I never get that strain again. Subsequent strains will pose a new challenge, as would the first. That being the case, my first aid kit would be updated from experience and put in the cupboard until the next time it was needed, I would return to my normal balanced diet.

Therefore, in essence, I'm searching for things, that in an ordered systematic way, can compliment useful conventional medicine throughout that five to seven days period.

I do personally plan to take into account (through research), as I hope others do, the background medical information for my individual medical circumstances in comparison to the list I have published. However, it may be difficult to be 100% accurate without personally trialling unless others have experience that can be shared. My first aid kit list is perhaps a point of reference, that could be used to spark further discussion or research or indeed disqualification (for some individuals).

As the medical community offers me only the advice; stay in bed, take relenza or tamiflu (becoming less effective), take lots of liquids and rest, I felt it necessary to embark on this research. Publishing to this forum is done with integrity and honesty. I do not have all the answers and  hope that far more qualified individuals can help me and others to improve the chances during those 5-7 days.

The list is still in "Beta" which means it still needs work.

I am not entirely comfortable with the idea and I am also personally quite worried about publishing medical thoughts to a public forum, but as no-one else seems to be doing it, I thought I might as well take the risk especially, as ethically, my intentions are good, with no product to sell and no acclaim waiting on the other side. I also thought 'perhaps it is better than doing nothing', in the hope that along the way a more defined, refined picture could be computed collectively.

Sometimes I think, 'If I do it I am damned, if I don't do it I am damned. 
Thanks for taking the time to pick up on the point of Ibuprofen.


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Which is not good for Asthmatics?

As Rosy has pointed out, Ibuprofen, which is one of the most common Cox 2 inhibitors is not good for asthmatics due to it increasing the action/number of leukotrienes. Not all asthmatics are affected by it, I know I am sensitive as I already take a leukotrine blocker.
Zantac (ranatidine) is a popular indigestion remedy.

Thanks Variola, will look into Zantac (ranatidine).
« Last Edit: 21/08/2009 20:11:27 by Simpleton »
 

Offline Simpleton

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What complementary remedies are there for H1N1 Influenza?
« Reply #66 on: 21/08/2009 21:46:53 »
Good news on vaccine...

So far, "no red flags" seen in H1N1 vaccine
http://ow.ly/15LVBC (Reuters)

Not sure about the safety...

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,4588419,00.html (Deutsche Welle)
"...Study says 'vaccinate children' 

New research has suggested that the best way to protect against the spread of the virus was to vaccinate school-age children and their parents. Unlike most strains of flu, which are usually most dangerous to older adults, (A)H1N1 targets younger people, according to a report published in the journal Science on Thursday.

The report recommends making children the top priority because they are the influenza's prime transmitters and their parents are the virus' bridge to the rest of the community. Inoculating spreaders, the report contends, would create a 'cocoon' around the people most at risk..."
« Last Edit: 21/08/2009 22:06:46 by Simpleton »
 

Offline Simpleton

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« Reply #67 on: 22/08/2009 13:42:46 »

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"The whole is greater than the sum of the individual parts." 1+1=3. 

Lets suppose that the first "1" is conventional medicine. The second "1" is complementary... together it produces more worth than when working alone."

this is a science forum so you should realise that if you can't support that you should withdraw it.

Finally sitting comfortably and able to concentrate on your last unanswered posting.

The word science comes from the Latin "scientia," meaning knowledge. How do we define science? According to Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, the definition of science is "knowledge attained through study or practice,". How can we then define homoeopathy, Chinese herbalism, acupuncture et al? Are they not a form of knowledge/science, indeed knowledge attained through study or practice?

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anyway, look back to the original question; the title of the thread.
What complementary remedies are there for H1N1.
Well there are lots.
For example I might tell you that
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wearing your socks inside-out
will stop you getting it.
I could make up lots more- or I could look up the ones that others have made up.

 [:o)] Comparing complementary medicine to wearing your socks inside out...  ;D

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What would I gain from this?
There are two sorts of remedies- the ones that work and the ones that don't. The ones that don't get called alternative or complimentary.
Since they don't work; who cares what they are?

 ::) Homoeopathy, Chinese herbalism, acupuncture et al, they don't work?? Stop it is starting to hurt now...  [:0]

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Do you realise that "modern" herbalists still base their work on things like
"Yarrow was a plant of Venus (this was odd, because most devil's herbs were plants of Saturn) and, as such, was frequently consulted where love matters were concerned. "
and
"Culpepper tells us that:
'Mercury has the dominion of this plant, and therefore to be sure it strengthens the brain.... It stays the hiccough, being boiled in wine, and but smelled unto being tied in a cloth. The seed is of more use than the leaves, and more effectual to digest raw and vicious humours, and is used in medicines that serve to expel wind, and the pains proceeding therefrom...."

Do you really think that such trash based on astrology is worth reading, never mind using as the basis of medicine?

Yarrow: ??? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achillea_millefolium if you are interested in some of the uses of Yarrow. Interestingly you forgot to mention that yarrow is used by herbalists (not sure if they are modern or not) "Today, yarrow is valued mainly for its action in colds and influenza". Hey Wow, you have potentially added a new line of research for my list. Thanks.  [:X]

Did I ever mention astrology? Erm, no, but as you did...the concept seems reasonable to me...

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Botanical Astrology
The connection between the celestial skies above and the growth cycles of plants and vegetation below has long been understood and honored through planting and harvesting rituals and documented by Farmerís Almanacs. A lesser known fact is that the signs and planets of the zodiac are linked to specific herbs, flowers, plants and trees and have been used therapeutically throughout the ages. Below is an at-a-glance list originated by noted 20th century astrologer Alan Leo. Herbs are classified according to planetary influences as follows:  http://www.celestiallivingarts.com/astro_herbs.html

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There are no doubt real medical uses for some herbs; I have mentioned a few.
Great! I could mention many many more...

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There are also real side effects associated with herbs.
And western medicines...

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No shock there- the difference between a drug and a poison is just the dose.
In many cases, I agree.

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The problem is that there's a lot of rubbish talked about herbs without any basis in fact; they just claim "the ancients said it was right!".
Basis in fact? You mean knowledge or science...perhaps there is more grey in this than just your black/white approach...

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Well the ancients didn't have a clue about how the body worked or about pharmacology.
::) Like the Egyptians, The Mayas, The Greeks, The Romans, all clueless...  ???

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Most of them thought the Earth was the centre of the universe and that the stars were painted onto glass spheres.
Are they a reliable source?
They our ancestors.

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Somehow I doubt many people reading this will think so.
Perhaps you should start a poll...

"Did the ancients really have no clue about how the body worked?" 1) Yes or 2) No or 3) What a silly question...
My answer would have to be No.3.

PS. Thanks for the Yarrow tip...
« Last Edit: 22/08/2009 13:44:19 by Simpleton »
 

Offline Simpleton

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« Reply #68 on: 22/08/2009 16:32:42 »
Google Knol is a great source of information for H1N1
http://knol.google.com/k/plos/plos-currents-influenza/28qm4w0q65e4w/1#

My first Knol relates to this posting
http://bit.ly/oJjCp
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #69 on: 22/08/2009 17:15:50 »
"Homoeopathy, Chinese herbalism, acupuncture et al, they don't work?? Stop it is starting to hurt now...  "

The studies of homeopathy show that it doesn't work.
While some plants in the Chinese herbal  have been shown to be beneficial (most recently the anti malarial Artemesinin, most of it is as pointless as the "mercury rules this plant" kind of nonsense.

Acupuncture doesn't compare favourably to a suitable placebo.
I take it that when you said "Stop it is starting to hurt now" you were referring to the fact that the truth sometimes hurts.

"Did I ever mention astrology? Erm, no, but as you did...the concept seems reasonable to me..."
No, you didn't mention it, but it is a part of the "rules" of the herbalism that you are so keen on.
If it seems reasonable to you could you please provide a reason why a bunch of unconnected stars zillions of miles away might have any effect on me as a consequence of the date I was born?
If you can't think of a mechanism for that then you ought not find it reasonable- yet you do. What are you doing on a scientific site?

"Did the ancients really have no clue about how the body worked?" 1) Yes or 2) No or 3) What a silly question...
My answer would have to be No.3."
Indeed it's a silly question.
They didn't understand what the heart was for- the circulation of the blood wasn't properly understood until the 17th cent.
They thought that the brain was a device for cooling the blood.
They thought that illness was due to a lack of balance between the 4 humours.

All absolute tosh. It's ridiculous to start a poll where the answer is so clear already.
« Last Edit: 22/08/2009 17:17:24 by Bored chemist »
 

Offline Variola

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« Reply #70 on: 22/08/2009 17:27:54 »
This seems an opportune time to post this link

http://www.senseaboutscience.org.uk/index.php/site/project/331/

Thanks to Dentstudent for the link.
 

Offline Simpleton

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« Reply #71 on: 24/08/2009 17:06:24 »
1 in 2 Doctors will not take the H1N1 vaccine. What message does that send to the masses...

http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=35&storycode=4123491&c=1
 

Offline BenV

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« Reply #72 on: 24/08/2009 18:30:37 »
It sends a very poor message, especially as the article doesn't mention why they wouldn't have the vaccine.  This means we can assume that they don't trust it, but we can also assume that they consider themselves healthy and would prefer to see the vaccine going to at risk groups.  Sadly, there's so little information there that we can think whatever we like...
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #73 on: 24/08/2009 19:37:52 »
I wonder if 1 in 2 doctors have already had the virus.
It seems plausible that a large fraction of them have.
If half of them think they have been exposed already then they would be fools to take, even the smallest risk, and also they would be seen as "greedy" to take it if they don't need it.


BTW, you seem not to hae spotted this question in my last post
"If it seems reasonable to you could you please provide a reason why a bunch of unconnected stars zillions of miles away might have any effect on me as a consequence of the date I was born?"
Please answer it.
Oh, Also, I just wondered; do you plan to set up the poll you suggested earlier?
 

Offline Simpleton

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« Reply #74 on: 29/08/2009 10:29:40 »
I wonder if 1 in 2 doctors have already had the virus.
It seems plausible that a large fraction of them have.
If half of them think they have been exposed already then they would be fools to take, even the smallest risk, and also they would be seen as "greedy" to take it if they don't need it.

Good point. Not sure about the reliability of the last posting either, just shocked me, the concept that a proportion of conventional doctors don't want their own medicine, apologies, it is good that people check and double check. A better post was written by the Daily Mail.  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1208716/Half-GPs-refuse-swine-flu-vaccine-testing-fears.html.

 

Quote
BTW, you seem not to hae spotted this question in my last post
"If it seems reasonable to you could you please provide a reason why a bunch of unconnected stars zillions of miles away might have any effect on me as a consequence of the date I was born?"
Please answer it.
Oh, Also, I just wondered; do you plan to set up the poll you suggested earlier?

Not an astrologer or a religious guru or a palm reader, in fact, as you now know, I am a Simpleton. Even from this stand point it would be difficult to ignore that the stars, planets and moons exist. A simple effect is how the moon effects people, plants, oceans every month, more complex would be the Pyramids around the world. I would also find it hard to accept that they have no effect upon us, can I prove it? Nope. Do I understand it all? Nope. Do I need to understand everything in order to accept it? Nope. Some things cannot be 100% scientifically explained and put into neat boxes (not yet!), I guess this must be awfully frustrating for some people.

All I can say is that my instinct leads me to the conclusion that the stars, the planets, the constellations et al somehow effect each and everyone of us. It could also be that they don't effect us at all, not one tiny little bit, but that is not my instinct.

What do you think about recent media reports that H1N1 may be showing signs of more virulence and is becoming more resistant to Tamiflu?

PS. No new polls planned at present.
Trying to find more time to continue research (for what its worth).

Have a nice weekend.


 

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What complementary remedies are there for H1N1 Influenza?
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