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Author Topic: Do you believe in heaven and hell?  (Read 16675 times)

Offline neilep

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Re: Do you believe in heaven and hell?
« Reply #25 on: 14/10/2005 02:37:34 »
quote:
Originally posted by i_have_no_idea

Neil i dont want to get to personal but do you tell your kids there is no God (your opinion).



When the topic arises I just give my opinion .I certainly do not make an issue out if it at all....and I remind them that they are free to believe in what ever they wish...and provide encouragemnet for them to make there own decisions.......and all my 9 week old son can do in return is piss on my face and be be sick on my shoulder :D:D

Men are the same as women.... just inside out !!
 

Offline i_have_no_idea

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Re: Do you believe in heaven and hell?
« Reply #26 on: 14/10/2005 02:39:45 »
Thats very respectable.
 

Offline neilep

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Re: Do you believe in heaven and hell?
« Reply #27 on: 14/10/2005 04:04:50 »
quote:
Originally posted by i_have_no_idea

Thats very respectable.



Yes it is isn't it ?...but in all seriousness. My eldest is 11, then the next is 9...and as mentioned above they are and will remain free to believe or disbelieve in their own way.

Men are the same as women.... just inside out !!
 

Offline Solvay_1927

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Re: Do you believe in heaven and hell?
« Reply #28 on: 14/10/2005 13:46:44 »
Heaven and hell - what a heavy discussion this has been.  Maybe I could lighten it a little with a little ... science?


The following is an actual question given on a University of Washington chemistry midterm.

"Bonus Question:   Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)?"

Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law, gas cools off when it expands and heats up when it is compressed) or some variant.

One student, however, wrote the following:


First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time.  So we need to know the rate that souls are moving into Hell and the rate they are leaving.

I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave.  Therefore, no souls are leaving.

As for how many souls are entering Hell, lets look at the different religions that exist in the world today.  Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell.  Since there are more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell.

With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand proportionately as souls are added.

This gives two possibilities:

1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.

2. Of course, if Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.

So which is it?

If we accept the postulate given to me by Ms. Teresa Banyan during my Freshman year, that "... it will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you",  and take into account the fact that I still have not succeeded in having sexual relations with her,  then, #2 cannot be true,  and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and will not freeze.


The student received the only "A" given.



"The early bird may get the worm, but it's the second mouse who gets the cheese."
 

another_someone

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Re: Do you believe in heaven and hell?
« Reply #29 on: 14/10/2005 18:08:17 »
quote:
Originally posted by Razor

So what do you think happens to evil people after thier death who have comitted Mass crimes, like Hitler.......or Bush?



Why does it matter what happens to Bush or Hitler after their death?

I am an atheist, and don't believe in Heaven or Hell, but is not one of the tenets of Christianity about forgiveness?

I am not even sure that Hitler or Bush are evil people.  That they committed evil deed is apparent (but to a greater or lesser extent, who has not - they merely had the opportunity to do it on a grander scale), but is there not the old adage about the road to hell being paved with good intentions.

Both Bush and Hitler, in there own way, are patriots and people with an intense desire to destroy that which they see/saw as evil.  Others would wish to destroy them (Hitler and Bush) simply because they see them as evil.

I understand the rational need for self defence, and that the harm that Hitler was (and arguably, Bush is) doing needed to be defended against; but to wish to harm them because you regard them as evil, in my view, makes you no different to them.  Once they are dead, they no longer pose a threat to anyone, and to wish them harm beyond the point where they any longer represent a threat is merely gratuitous malice.
 

Offline sharp fence

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Re: Do you believe in heaven and hell?
« Reply #30 on: 11/11/2005 01:11:32 »
I'd like to suggest some responses that a Christian might make to your claims:

"If something good happens it's god's will if something bad happens he moves in mysterious ways." No, if something happens, it is God's will.

"There are hundreds of religions and all are different." All are different, but Christianity exclusively emphasizes that the relationship with God is more important that indoctrination in a set of rules.

"...I cannot believe that a god would allow people to suffer..." God is good, but not necessarily nice. Gods main purpose, as far as we are led to believe through 'his' revelation in the bible, is to bring glory to himself.

"The church of england was created by henry the 8th" Maybe, but the church was created by God. The Church of England is merely one 'organisation' of Christianity, maybe in some respects moved too far from biblical principles.

"I grew up in care without family and without parents, did god do that? What did he do about it?" We can't claim to understand God and things may happen for reasons beyond our comprehension. All we know, from what the bible says, is that God wants us to draw near to him and  only through this can we be completely content.

"...giving us the ability to find a cure..." That is crap. Some might say that because of our distance from God, diseases have developed. Others might say that we are designed by God to die of this earthly life, but if we have a belief and faith in God, death is no obstacle.

"Live long and Love life" Sadly, living long is not our choice. God or no God.
 

Offline Ylide

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Re: Do you believe in heaven and hell?
« Reply #31 on: 11/11/2005 12:31:18 »
A compassionate creator would never allow his creations to burn for all eternity.  Would you subject your own children to eternal torture because they didn't grow up the way you wanted them to?  

Divine creation of the universe aside, the concept of eternal painful damnation is something created to fighten people into believing in manmade bull****.

As for sickness and death arising as a result of the fall of Adam and Eve.... biblical God is omniscient by all accounts.  He would have known that Adam and Eve would disobey him.  Why punish them for doing what you knew they would do?  That's like locking a puppy in a room for a day then beating the crap out of him for pissing on the floor.   You KNEW it was going to happen, don't try and act all outraged and surprised.  It doesn't make sense to anyone with a shred of logical thought in their mind.  

The downside to being an atheist is that instead of being afraid of hell, I'm afraid of oblivion.  I know I won't care once I'm there but the ego portion of my psyche freaks the hell out when I think about no longer existing.  





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Offline Becky

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Re: Do you believe in heaven and hell?
« Reply #32 on: 12/11/2005 03:16:31 »
Try reading C.S. Lewis's book MERE CHRISTIANITY,  it has answered a lot of questions for me,
about what Christianity truly is,  not what the world thinks it is.  I haven't read it for
about 20 years,  but thinking of pulling it out and reading it again... its a classic read.
Thanks,   Becky
 

Offline Simmer

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Re: Do you believe in heaven and hell?
« Reply #33 on: 12/11/2005 21:14:54 »
I think this whole thread illustrates the gulf of incomprehension beteween believers and non-believers.  How, for goodness sake, could anyone who doesn't believe in God believe in heaven or hell?

And that has been my experience generally.  I have known a lot of religious scientists - good people and good scientists for the most part - but as soon as you start talking about their faith it's like moving to Stepford!  People capable of explaining the nature of of a quantum transition start quoting 2000 year old books written by what we would know consider ignoramuses, word for word and without any critical faculty (although quite capable of ripping an article in Nature to bits with forensic precision!).

It's a mystery, as they would say.  In my experience such discussion is futile, although entertaining.  You either believe it or you don't.

 

another_someone

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Re: Do you believe in heaven and hell?
« Reply #34 on: 12/11/2005 22:39:38 »
quote:
Originally posted by Simmer

I think this whole thread illustrates the gulf of incomprehension beteween believers and non-believers.  How, for goodness sake, could anyone who doesn't believe in God believe in heaven or hell?



As I said earlier, I regard myself an atheist, but I do like to try and understand where other people are coming from, even if I don't necessarily agree with them.

Firstly, while Heaven and Hell are religious concepts, but not all religions believe in a God (most do, but many forms of Buddhism do not, and it is possible to conceive of  a religion that does not believe in God, and yet does have the notion of Heaven and Hell).

It is also possible to argue that God, Heaven, and Hell, are real but not physical; that they are parts of the human mind and psyche, but only exist within the man, and not without.  This may not the the basis of Christianity to believe this, since the JudaoChristian philosophy is very much about an external God.

quote:

And that has been my experience generally.  I have known a lot of religious scientists - good people and good scientists for the most part - but as soon as you start talking about their faith it's like moving to Stepford!  People capable of explaining the nature of of a quantum transition start quoting 2000 year old books written by what we would know consider ignoramuses, word for word and without any critical faculty (although quite capable of ripping an article in Nature to bits with forensic precision!).



This is so, but did you also ask them to critically analyse why they loved their spouses?  Some things depend on prejudice (love and hate both equally do).  Religion is just another manifestation of prejudice.  It may not be very scientific, but it is very human.

quote:

It's a mystery, as they would say.  In my experience such discussion is futile, although entertaining.  You either believe it or you don't.



Insofar as either side will ever convince the other side of the truth of their argument, it is futile; but insofar as you may understand something more about human nature, it is still valuable.

When you ask a question, often the answer you find is not to the question you asked, but no less valuable for that.
 

Offline momen95

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Do you believe in heaven and hell?
« Reply #35 on: 18/01/2009 18:35:00 »
i believe in heaven and hell

its most inportant part of my relegion
 

Offline Bored chemist

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Do you believe in heaven and hell?
« Reply #36 on: 18/01/2009 20:00:19 »
More important than correct speling or capital letters.
 

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Do you believe in heaven and hell?
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