The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: Extending the mobius concept  (Read 3850 times)

Offline Gasparri

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 21
    • View Profile
Extending the mobius concept
« on: 04/09/2009 20:23:55 »


  Hello, I have been researching the mobius concept and have
  found some interesting extensions. If anyone is interested
  in these I'll point to some illustrations. One of the extensions
  resembles a monopole which might be interesting to look at
  considering the news they have found magnetic monopoles.


 

Offline Vern

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2072
    • View Profile
    • Photonics
Extending the mobius concept
« Reply #1 on: 04/09/2009 21:22:04 »
I must have missed the news about finding magnetic monopoles. Do you have a reference for this.
 

Offline LeeE

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3382
    • View Profile
    • Spatial
Extending the mobius concept
« Reply #2 on: 04/09/2009 22:39:39 »
I've not heard any news about the discovery of monopoles either.

Which of Mobius's 'concepts' have you extended, and in which way?  He came up with a few different things.
 

lyner

  • Guest
Extending the mobius concept
« Reply #3 on: 04/09/2009 23:21:45 »
Didn't he invent the Mobius strip club?
 

Offline Soul Surfer

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3345
  • keep banging the rocks together
    • View Profile
    • ian kimber's web workspace
Extending the mobius concept
« Reply #4 on: 04/09/2009 23:22:57 »
Magnetic monopoles have not been found but a recent article in a major science journal and reported in the science press (new scientist 9 May) has created a structure that behaves as if it was a magnetic monopole.

Thinking of a conventional electromagnet it appears not to be possible to have an isolated pole however if you think of a material that consists of a lot of little magnetic dipoles in an antiferromagnetic configuration.  That is where the little bar magnets are all in opposition cancelling each other out rather than in phase adding up to create a uniform magnetic field,  it is then possible to have one of the bar magnets out of step (like a dislocation in a crystal or a hole in a semiconductor) to create a single magnetic pole that can move through the material.
 

Offline Gasparri

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 21
    • View Profile
Extending the mobius concept
« Reply #5 on: 04/09/2009 23:36:15 »
I must have missed the news about finding magnetic monopoles. Do you have a reference for this.

 Sure, here you go: http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/40302 [nofollow]
 

Offline Gasparri

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 21
    • View Profile
Extending the mobius concept
« Reply #6 on: 04/09/2009 23:37:21 »
Didn't he invent the Mobius strip club?

  That was his brother, Mobius Hefner.
 

Offline Gasparri

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 21
    • View Profile
Extending the mobius concept
« Reply #7 on: 04/09/2009 23:56:18 »
I've not heard any news about the discovery of monopoles either.

Which of Mobius's 'concepts' have you extended, and in which way?  He came up with a few different things.

  Well, I started by looking at the mobius band from a different
  perspective. I noted an alignment associated with the twist part where in rotation it lines up with with a spot on the opposite side of the band. Looking at the spot as the crossing point of x and z across
the band the twist aligns to y. So, now looking at the mobius band
as a 3D object and taking the band to be made up of two elements
rather than one strip I saw that many additional elements could
be added without change to any of the physical properties of
the plane mobius band. The results are sure different though when you
cut it in half.

 This goes on and on. Flat mobius, spherical mobius, mobius that
 when cut in half yields a rectangle, mobius when cut in half
 yields a hexagon. Only difference? Positioning of the elements.

 One type mobius reproduces itself when cut in half, thirds
 or any number of cuts. Cut it in half 12 times you get
 12 baby mobius each 1/12 the width of the mama mobius.

 Forgive the bad video examples, best I could do on
 a B movie budget.

 
 

Offline Farsight

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 396
    • View Profile
Extending the mobius concept
« Reply #8 on: 06/09/2009 13:41:50 »
Good stuff Gasparri. But the moebius isn't a magnetic monopole. It's an electron. Or a positron, depending on the chirality. The trefoil version is a proton, or an antiproton. The next one up is a pentaquark. Here you go, I'd forgotten about this, my old paper: http://www.relativityplus.info/. See figures 7 and 29. It maybe goes back as far as Kelvin, but see http://www.cybsoc.org/cybcon2008prog.htm#jw for the John G Williamson and Martin van der Mark paper "Is the electron a photon with a toroidal topology?". It's been a bit overlooked IMHO, along with pair production.
 

 
« Last Edit: 06/09/2009 13:47:04 by Farsight »
 

Offline Gasparri

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 21
    • View Profile
Extending the mobius concept
« Reply #9 on: 07/09/2009 18:06:06 »
Good stuff Gasparri. But the moebius isn't a magnetic monopole. It's an electron. Or a positron, depending on the chirality. The trefoil version is a proton, or an antiproton. The next one up is a pentaquark. Here you go, I'd forgotten about this, my old paper: http://www.relativityplus.info/ [nofollow]. See figures 7 and 29. It maybe goes back as far as Kelvin, but see http://www.cybsoc.org/cybcon2008prog.htm#jw [nofollow] for the John G Williamson and Martin van der Mark paper "Is the electron a photon with a toroidal topology?". It's been a bit overlooked IMHO, along with pair production.
 

 

   In playing with the phase relationships I made one totally y
  and the structure is exactly the same as the 3D 2 side and it
  resembled the 3D 2 side made with circle elements which was
  a shape I made into a windmill. The only 'visual' difference is
  in the x phase it has two sides and one edge, in the y phase
  it has two edges and one side. This latter y phase seems to
  have a different and much better aerodynamic personality. I made
  a little test windmill with three strips of poster board and
  and a shish kabob stick for an axial. Having taped well the joins
  at 120 degrees I oushed the stick through the joins for a
  3D y one side two edge mobius on a stick. Looked delicious.
  Since the 'hubs' can slide freely along the stick you can see the
  circular loops change pitch as you slide them together and
  apart. Since the angles on each side perfectly align aerodynamically
  the thing makes the most perfect windmill blade design I
  have ever seen. I already see at least twice the torque
  the old one generated as a six inch paper model hanging
  on a thread under the ceiling fan. I think this design
  merits closer inspection by the windmill industry. It lends
  itself to being constructed on a large diameter tube in which
  the generator coils remain stationary with respect to the
  rotating tube. When the hubs are brought together the blades
  feather out to almost no drag.

  Well I've bored you long enough I have a new puppy to tend to.
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Extending the mobius concept
« Reply #9 on: 07/09/2009 18:06:06 »

 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums