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Author Topic: An essay in futility, too long to read :)  (Read 279147 times)

Offline yor_on

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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #2350 on: 24/09/2016 12:08:44 »
Let's assume there is a equilibrium existing in this universe, and uniform motions belongs to it. You can see it two ways, either that everything existing in our global representation of a universe has about the same speeds as they come to be equivalently under the same local circumstances, as well as if all 'uniform motions', even when not assuming the first, actually becomes a equilibrium. Both, or each one for itself?
 

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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #2351 on: 24/09/2016 12:11:42 »
Can you see why I find it so important to differ between 'locality' as in ones local 'reality', relative that 'global reality' we call our 'universe'?
 

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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #2352 on: 24/09/2016 12:14:31 »
Doesn't matter what star you choose to measure that blue shift relative. A higher 'uniform speed' should still present a blue shift globally. It would be revolutionizing if you could prove it otherwise.

=

Better point out that the blueshift will be in the direction of your motion, with a reciprocate redshift created at your aft, locally measured naturally.


« Last Edit: 24/09/2016 12:20:09 by yor_on »
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #2353 on: 24/09/2016 12:22:48 »
Now, let's assume this is wrong. Then, as soon as you stop accelerating, there will be no blue and red shifts measurable. I don't hold to this myself, but it would make it simpler, in some ways :)
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #2354 on: 24/09/2016 12:42:49 »
The definition of sharing a 'frame of reference' aka same 'locality' is nicely expressed in the accelerating rocket, relative the rocket uniformly moving. You put a lightbulb in the middle of that rocket, then measure blue, respectively red, shifts from the front, as well as the rockets aft as it accelerates. And they will exist, but as soon as you move uniformly they disappear. The definition here is that everything share a same locality, and it is therefore you can observe the difference between a uniform motion relative a acceleration. They do share a same 'frame of reference', but :) to me it's slightly questionable, at least when accelerating. (This from a point of me wanting to define a 'frame' relative lights blue redshifts)

And from that then to different uniform motions, as measured relative some agreed on 'fixed star', do they or do they not share a same frame of reference, locally measured? will there be blue and redshifts depending on different 'local motions'?
 

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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #2355 on: 24/09/2016 13:42:09 »
What I see is that locality is everything. It's about being alive, observing, acting and getting acted on. Locality doesn't lie to you. Locality contains time, and so clocks. The universe on the other tentacle, our agreed on dimensionalities? I don't know, it's about what you think is more 'real'. To me that is local. Then again, the universe do exist, and we conform to it.
 

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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #2356 on: 24/09/2016 13:44:49 »
And then the question might be why we do it?
Well, that one is already answered in all assumptions we make about rules being the same in each point. It doesn't prove the universe to be a 'whole container' though. It just presume rules existing.
 

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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #2357 on: 24/09/2016 13:45:18 »
And they do :)
 

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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #2358 on: 24/09/2016 14:02:04 »
And yes, let's go back to Mach universe, looking at it my way. He's more right than wrong :) Einstein was correct at first, then started to doubt himself, and Mach. Locally defined everything is a equivalence, and locally defined everything acts on each other, from same principles and rules. The real mystery is this 'globalization' of it that we live in. And there I also will wonder about probabilities, coming from statistics over a whole universe, well, sort of :) Einstein wanted a continuum, a global definition, and Mach became slightly uncomfortable. I on the other tentacle settle for a local definition, and in that one Mach has a place. Or you want to argue that coming from the exact same rules and principles, using 'c' as a communicator, you're not acted on? And you don't act?

Locality.
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #2359 on: 26/09/2016 11:19:11 »
I know, could have expressed that one better. Anyway, it's argumentative, no mathematical proofs to it although it should be fairly simple to equal 'c' to a 'perfect clock'. and the rest builds on that, more or less. It's about being slightly one eyed, defining what I think is more important, which then becomes what I call 'locality'.

Let's discuss global warming :)

I'll give you a few reasons why I expect 'adapting' to be the sole answer. Did you know that there are experiments finding that you can split humanity in two groups? Aha, no, not that one, it's about expectations about life. Some see the positive first in a mixed picture, others the negative. You could call it outlooks on life, in where those observing what's negative will want to protect themselves firstly, versus those that see a image as firstly positive will find themselves eager to explore that. And it's instinctual, hard wired into our species. Look it up.

Here in Sweden nobody in my environment cared for a so called National day, neither did we give that much importance to a flag. Today it's different, national days gets 'invented' and celebrated.  ( I don't think my generation was any less 'Swedish' than the one we see today though :)

Now put those two statements together and try to see what might have changed our outlook.

and yes, global warming. There is a abstract momentum to humanity. We strive for similar things, food, security, kids etc etc. Basic stuff. Then comes something telling us that the system we has created now seem to lead us down a path with uncertain outcomes. The 'American dream' if you so want, shared by all, even those that calls America the 'great Satan'. Because those too will want that refrigerator, the car, etc etc.

Now, telling others what to do, as long as it doesn't involve you, is easier than doing it when it impact on you too, right? We all want a decent living standard. But global warming is insidious, and most of us realize that if we actually wanted to do something effective about it, it would impact not only on our living standards, but also on the beliefs and structures that forms the modern society's we have.  So, not only your wallet, but also your core beliefs.

It's not only oil dripping megalomaniacs that support the way we 'treat' global warming, In fact, I think you, as well as me, do it too. It's standing between a hard place and a rock, with this overwhelming 'human momentum' creating the path we walk.
 

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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #2360 on: 26/09/2016 19:47:01 »
So, do we need to change those core beliefs then? Well, we can keep on as we do, and see what happens, not that I would recommend it myself. I would expect that kind of solution to lead to a increasing inequality, not only rich country's versus poor, but actually inside each country existing on this planet. I would prefer us to look over our beliefs instead, and try to decide what makes life worth living. Ever noticed that no revolution ever seem to change those basic core beliefs? The same attitude pops up, no matter what ideals presented.
 

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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #2361 on: 26/09/2016 19:59:24 »
In fact, global warming is to me about a increasing inequality, and so is our monetary belief system. although the last is about deeply held beliefs, and trust, you actually could argue that global warming comes from a same attitude. building it through trust in our inability to ever influence a whole Earth system. Inequality leads to all kind of bad things, not only for those on the wrong side of the fence.
 

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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #2362 on: 26/09/2016 20:13:48 »
So what can change cores? How about education? A equal right to it, guaranteed in law, with no fees involved. Let me give a example, recently meet a guy that had four kids, the oldest was seven. Everyone had a right to go to school in this country, but you still needed money for the school 'utensils', as pens paper etc. You also needed to buy a school uniform. The result from that was that this kid got a 'home schooling' instead. By that I mean a poster containing the alphabet and multiplication table, hanging on a wall. what chances would you give that kid?
 

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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #2363 on: 03/10/2016 08:07:45 »
And time.

The time between something being 'virtual' relative 'real'?
The shorter the time the more uncertain the 'energy'
In Ultrawideband "fundamental physics dictates that ultrashort pulses occupy a wide swath of the radio frequency spectrum."

What makes it real?
 

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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #2364 on: 03/10/2016 08:13:55 »
Time of course :)
That's what makes something 'real' to me. That is also what I differ into a past, a now, and a future. And 'time' is also a scale. It's definitely something emerging with ones scale of measuring. This is ignoring the problem with the 'macroscopic observer' existing though, the one needed to measure and observe anything.
 

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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #2365 on: 03/10/2016 08:15:39 »
If I don't ignore the macroscopically existing observer then time is real. And as all 'our' observations builds on that phenomena?
 

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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #2366 on: 03/10/2016 08:19:50 »
you might naively consider it so that 'time' is a macroscopic derivation of a microscopic arrow of time. At the very small scale of change, regarding 'constants', then 'probabilities' falling out into a macroscopic definition of a 'global time'.
 

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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #2367 on: 03/10/2016 08:45:10 »
I'm not even sure if it is valid to consider a fields borders :) Translated into relativity you're 'inside SpaceTime' as Pete used to express it. From that point of view there is no 'outside' to prove, and from the idea of a 'field' with, as I at least would like it to be, 'non propagating photons' it doesn't makes a sense discussing what's not that 'field'.
 

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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #2368 on: 03/10/2016 08:48:22 »
Simply expressed, SpaceTime is not some looking glass that we can see through, observing a 'outside'. SpaceTime is all there ever will be for us, it's us.
 

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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #2369 on: 03/10/2016 08:57:54 »
But we can see scales to it, can't we :)
 

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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #2370 on: 03/10/2016 09:39:56 »
Alternatively you could consider 'global time' a 'emergence'. The global emergence of what we call 'time' leads to confusion though, when one try to see how time dilations etc fits it. Then again, locally defined that 'time' never change for you, your life expectancy being the same, never mind what speeds or mass you're experiencing (generally speaking now).  So what holds locally 'breaks down' globally. And the idea of a emergence is then something that one will find hard, or even impossible, to define from its constituents former behavior, as when water freeze to ice.
 

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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #2371 on: 03/10/2016 09:40:47 »
And it's all about the scale you use.
 

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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #2372 on: 03/10/2016 09:42:40 »
It's very easy to see that constants must be local, but then we have constants as Feigenbaums? How can they be considered local? Can a constant also become emergent?
 

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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #2373 on: 03/10/2016 09:44:28 »
Why not?
 

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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #2374 on: 03/10/2016 09:53:10 »
For me it's somewhat as a logic matrix, scaling up into new behaviors, presenting 'new constants'. and the question of which 'constants' being more 'real' also becoming a question of at what scale you will define it from.
 

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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #2374 on: 03/10/2016 09:53:10 »

 

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