The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: How is it possible that some people can see or predict the future?  (Read 30336 times)

Offline echochartruse

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 395
    • View Profile
We need a Premonition Recording Department!

Echochartruse did mention this had been tried, and abandoned …

... British psychiatrist Barker established the British Premonitions Bureau, in the hope that the collection of any and all precognitive experiences might aid in preventing future tragedies. A year later, a similar organization, the Central Premonitions Registry, was formed in New York. Both collected large numbers of premonitions from the general populace.  The collection of premonitions to avoid disaster proved to be impractical, however, and both institutions were gradually shut down.

[Shooting youself in the foot there Echochartruse].

This concept exists on the internet e.g. ... http://www.prophecies.us/

A premonition is something that HAPPENS in the future not may or may not happen!
if there is a way to prevent it it no longer becomes a premonition, thought you would know that...
 

Offline echochartruse

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 395
    • View Profile
Can you prove premonitions don't happen?

Can you prove Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy don't exist? Good luck with that approach to science!

are you saying it can't be prove that premonitions do not happen?
 

Offline RD

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8134
  • Thanked: 53 times
    • View Profile
Can you prove premonitions don't happen?

Quote
The argument from ignorance, also known as argumentum ad ignorantiam ("appeal to ignorance" ), argument by lack of imagination, or negative evidence, is a logical fallacy in which it is claimed that a premise is true only because it has not been proven false, or is false only because it has not been proven true.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

stupid statement, what relevance?

There relevance is clear: you assert that because premonitions have not been proven false then they must be true:
 your argument is a logical fallacy, i.e. false, specious, erroneous, [insert other synonyms for bullsh!t here].

« Last Edit: 06/10/2009 21:51:33 by RD »
 

Offline echochartruse

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 395
    • View Profile
Can you prove premonitions don't happen?

Quote
The argument from ignorance, also known as argumentum ad ignorantiam ("appeal to ignorance" ), argument by lack of imagination, or negative evidence, is a logical fallacy in which it is claimed that a premise is true only because it has not been proven false, or is false only because it has not been proven true.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

stupid statement, what relevance?

There relevance is clear: you assert that because premonitions have not been proven false then they must be true:
 your argument is a logical fallacy, i.e. false, specious, erroneous, [insert other synonyms for bullsh!t here].



Thats your assumption, not mine. I never said that you did see above.

You clearly state that they dont happen yet it has been scientifically proven they do and departments and scientist and others have already established that and it has been recorded.
Yet you make no attempt as proving all the scientist, government departments, general public wrong.................I simply asked "Can you prove they don't happen?"The skeptics, however, say the data do not sway them.
« Last Edit: 06/10/2009 22:03:14 by echochartruse »
 

Offline that mad man

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 724
    • View Profile
    • My music
Quote; "do ya think men might not want to speak about their experiences?"

Considering that the others you have cited have all been males I don't think so, men tend to brag about such things.

Quote; "You clearly state that they dont happen yet it has been scientifically proven they do and departments and scientist and others have already established that and it has been recorded."

It seems that no one has written a premonition down, had it verified and then come true. I cant find any details of any scientific experiments that show this proof with or without recordings, so where is this data?
 

Offline Karsten

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 701
    • View Profile
    • Fortunately still only a game
Can you prove premonitions don't happen?

Can you prove Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy don't exist? Good luck with that approach to science!

are you saying it can't be prove that premonitions do not happen?

Exactly. But that does not mean that the opposite applies.
 

Offline Karsten

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 701
    • View Profile
    • Fortunately still only a game
If only one person ever had a premonition that eventuated in the records of the entire earth's life, can you still deny it happened?

For the sake of a discussion...

I think we should give you this: It happened once.
Maybe you can give us this in return: It happened once.

And then we start fresh. 

 
 

Offline tiptop

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 11
  • looking with my mind wide open
    • View Profile
Hi everyone this is interesting subject :o
 

Offline tiptop

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 11
  • looking with my mind wide open
    • View Profile
I have read some of the links that state experiments are being done scientifically and that it is a fact that we should all have the ability to see the futre.

Quantum science is especially taking it on board.

 

Offline tiptop

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 11
  • looking with my mind wide open
    • View Profile
here is another
Quote
Researcher Dean Radin, director at the Institute of Noetic Sciences conducted research showing that the central nervous system responds to events that have not yet happened, suggesting that human consciousness has access to future events as well as to the past and present.

In four separate double-blind experiments Radin found that average people respond to the content of an emotional picture before the picture is viewed. The odds of this happening are over one-hundred thousand to one. The experiment volunteers included average people as well as trained scientists

 

Offline RD

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8134
  • Thanked: 53 times
    • View Profile
The wikipedia page on "The Institute of Noetic Sciences" links to one on Pseudoscience.
« Last Edit: 07/10/2009 03:45:29 by RD »
 

Offline tiptop

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 11
  • looking with my mind wide open
    • View Profile
Institute of Noetic Sciences
[qute]The institute was co-founded in 1973 by Edgar Mitchell, an astronaut who was part of the Apollo 14 mission, wealthy industrialist Paul N. Temple and some others.[9] During the three-day journey back to Earth aboard Apollo 14, Mitchell had an epiphany while looking down on the earth from space. "The presence of divinity became almost palpable, and I knew that life in the universe was not just an accident based on random processes ... The knowledge came to me directly," Mitchell said of that experience. Following his spaceflight, Mitchell and others founded the Institute of Noetic Sciences.[10]

Among the projects the institute has sponsored include a bibliography on the physical and psychological effects of meditation, a spontaneous remission bibliography, and studies on the efficacy of compassionate intention on healing in AIDS patients.[11] They have also conducted a number of parapsychological studies into extra-sensory perception, lucid dreaming, and presentiment.[12
The institute currently conducts research programs in three principal areas:[4]
[/quote]
newbielink:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_of_Noetic_Sciences [nonactive] ;)
 

Offline tiptop

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 11
  • looking with my mind wide open
    • View Profile
definition......Premonition:

Quote
A powerful intuitive feeling that something momentous and important is going to happen. The individual experiencing a premonition does not necessarily have to be psychic, or clairvoyant, or even a lesser intuitive. It is believed that important events sometimes send powerful emanations back into the past, which if believed could enable the people involved to prepare either for the best or for the worst. The vast number of letters and phone calls to the White Star ocean line on the day before the launch of the Titanic, or to the White House in Washington, DC in the last few days before President Kennedy left for Dallas, were NOT from actual psychics, but from ordinary people who simply had an overwhelming feeling of oncoming tragedy.
 

Offline tiptop

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 11
  • looking with my mind wide open
    • View Profile
I'm new to this, sorry will link the quote next time. I cant find it now. just search 'definition premonition'
it is amazing how many things come up.

I have just found something on Morgan Roberts who wrote about a ship extrememly similar to Titanic, date, physical features, the way it sank, everything he called the ship Titan. "futility' is the name of the book.

newbielink:http://www.titanic-titanic.com/titanic_premonitions.shtml [nonactive]
 [:-'(]
 

Offline tiptop

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 11
  • looking with my mind wide open
    • View Profile
Quote
A the similar or same factor may relate to doomed ships. The Titanic carried only fifty-eight percent of its passenger load on its disastrous maiden voyage when colliding with an iceberg in April 1912. A group of twenty-two stokers were late and the captain declared the ship would sail without them, a fact which may have saved their lives. The psychiatrist Ian Stevenson recorded more than nineteen incidents of premonitions and precognitions concerning the Titanic in England, America, Canada, and Brazil, which occurred within the two weeks prior to the ship's sailing date of April 10. Some cancelled their reservations after dreaming of the ship's doom; others said it was bad luck to sail on the ship's maiden voyage. Some of the survivors said they had felt uneasy but sailed anyway; the later is questionable because some sensation might have been prompted by after the fact thought.
newbielink:http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/p/premonition.html [nonactive]

there are so many i can not respond
 

Offline tiptop

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 11
  • looking with my mind wide open
    • View Profile
newbielink:http://godkillzyou.wordpress.com/page/3/ [nonactive] ............read this
now I'm finding out things I never knew before.
Quote
science has come onto the premonitions scene. There are now hundreds of experiments that confirm premonitions, which have been replicated by researchers all over the world


I found something else on this forum I want to see so you will have to search it out, there are too many to list.
 

Offline that mad man

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 724
    • View Profile
    • My music
I think some are being mislead by the links and are straying a bit. The OP was talking specifically about the ability to see or predict the future which is a premonition. Unfortunately most of those links are to do with paranormal activities and have nothing at all to do with premonitions. Proving one does not make the other proven or a fact.

Anyone can say this; "science has come onto the premonitions scene. There are now hundreds of experiments that confirm premonitions, which have been replicated by researchers all over the world." Trouble is so far no one has been able to supply any scientific corroborated data that is to do with premonitions or the details of any replicated experiments.

Like a lot of things in QM just because its possible does not mean its probable, to me that's the bit that's important.

Until someone can provide verifiable scientific data we will just be going round in circles.
 

Offline echochartruse

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 395
    • View Profile
I have not been able to post for a while.
I've been searching the subject to find numerous scientists experimenting in this field.
science has a theory regarding the anterior cingulate cortex, see below.

It appears that the intense denial that premonitions are, as someone stated on this post...(bullshit!),..  is shifting...........


I am a trained scientist.  I worked in the field predicting failures.


As a scientist predicting failures, you may well be aware of this theory.

http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/node/7036
Quote
A new theory suggests that the anterior cingulate cortex, described by some scientists as part of the brain's "oops" center, may actually function as an early warning system -- one that works at a subconscious level to help us recognize and avoid high-risk situations.


While some scientists discount the existence of a sixth sense for danger, new research from Washington University in St. Louis has identified a brain region that clearly acts as an early warning system -- one that monitors environmental cues, weighs possible consequences and helps us adjust our behavior to avoid dangerous situations.

"Our brains are better at picking up subtle warning signs than we previously thought," said Joshua Brown, Ph.D., a research associate in psychology in Arts & Sciences and co-author of a study on these findings in the Feb. 18 issue of the journal Science.

The findings offer rigorous scientific evidence for a new way of conceptualizing the complex executive control processes taking place in and around the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC), a brain area located near the top of the frontal lobes and along the walls that divide the left and right hemispheres.

"In the past, we found activity in the ACC when people had to make a difficult decision among mutually exclusive options, or after they made a mistake," Brown said. "But now we find that this brain region can actually learn to recognize when you might make a mistake, even before a difficult decision has to be made. So the ACC appears to act as an early warning system -- it learns to warn us in advance when our behavior might lead to a negative outcome, so that we can be more careful and avoid making a mistake."

Brown's study, co-authored with Todd Braver, Ph.D., associate professor of psychology in Arts & Sciences, offers compelling evidence that the ACC is better understood as a pre-emptive early warning system, one that is actively working to help us anticipate the potential for mistakes and thus avoid them altogether.

Quote
Dr. Larry Kincheloe, an OB-GYN in Oklahoma City, knows ahead of time when
his patients are going to deliver because he gets strange feelings in his chest
when the time is near. It’s like an alarm goes off. This is so reliable that the OB
nurses caring for his patients have learned to ask him how his chest feels, as a
guide to when a patient will deliver.
http://www.dosseydossey.com/larry/Interview_Questions-Premonitions.pdf


UK science minister claims to have power like a sixth sense”
Quote
November 17th, 2008 - 5:37 pm ICT by ANI  -
London, Nov 17 (ANI): British Science Minister Lord Drayson claims that he has a power "like a sixth sense, which enables him to foretell some events even before they occur. [/b][/u]
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/tag/sixth-sense


Surely scientist would know where to look to find information on these experiments, please don't ask me to prove them, go look for yourself. So far there has not been one piece of evidence other than the outright denial of premonitions even happening by most of the people on this forum.

So can anyone prove to me that it is just a fluke that so many people experience premonitions, that all the scientific experiments in this field are an entire waste of time and money?
« Last Edit: 07/10/2009 22:46:49 by echochartruse »
 

Ethos

  • Guest
I have always wondered why it is possible that some can 'see' the future. Know the future, fortell the future. Mentally perceive it, even though it doesn't yet exist?

Understanding the future is as elementry as understanding the process involved in chemical reactions. Add sodium to chlorine in the proper combinations and you get salt, NaCl. Nothing supernatural about that is there.
 

Offline echochartruse

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 395
    • View Profile
I have always wondered why it is possible that some can 'see' the future. Know the future, fortell the future. Mentally perceive it, even though it doesn't yet exist?

Understanding the future is as elementry as understanding the process involved in chemical reactions. Add sodium to chlorine in the proper combinations and you get salt, NaCl. Nothing supernatural about that is there.
Thank you for your comment,....that is why I came to a science forum to find the answer, unfortunately some scientists have a different opinion.
 

Offline RD

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8134
  • Thanked: 53 times
    • View Profile
I have not been able to post for a while.
I've been searching the subject to find numerous scientists experimenting in this field.

That will keep you indefinitely busy as it is pseudoscience.

It appears that the intense denial that premonitions are, as someone stated on this post...(bullshit!),..  is shifting...........

I said the argument you made, you can't prove it's false so it must be true, is a logical fallacy, (a.k.a. bullsh!t).

People do have vivid dreams, but they are not seeing the future.

You can't see the future because it hasn't happened yet.
« Last Edit: 07/10/2009 23:36:15 by RD »
 

Offline echochartruse

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 395
    • View Profile

I said the argument you made, you can't prove it's false so it must be true, is a logical fallacy, (a.k.a. bullsh!t).

actually you made that arguement. I just asked "if it could be proven that it didn't happen" , thats all I said. Seems as though you assume too much and try to write as if another said something they didn't.

People do have vivid dreams, but they are not seeing the future.

You can't see the future because it hasn't happened yet.

Just becasue you dream doesn't mean that it will come true, a dream is not a premonition.
You are still indenial. So, I suppose becase you say it and becasue you are a scientist, it is true, with or without you providing scientific proof

Is that what you want me to think?
« Last Edit: 08/10/2009 00:13:32 by echochartruse »
 

Offline echochartruse

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 395
    • View Profile
Quote
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-452833/Is-REALLY-proof-man-future.html#ixzz0T67PF1S5
Professor Brian Josephson, a Nobel Prize-winning physicist from Cambridge University, says: "So far, the evidence seems compelling. What seems to be happening is that information is coming from the future.
"In fact, it's not clear in physics why you can't see the future. In physics, you certainly cannot completely rule out this effect."
when did physics become pseudoscience.
 

Offline Karsten

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 701
    • View Profile
    • Fortunately still only a game
Quote
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-452833/Is-REALLY-proof-man-future.html#ixzz0T67PF1S5
Professor Brian Josephson, a Nobel Prize-winning physicist from Cambridge University, says: "So far, the evidence seems compelling. What seems to be happening is that information is coming from the future.
"In fact, it's not clear in physics why you can't see the future. In physics, you certainly cannot completely rule out this effect."
when did physics become pseudoscience.

Please note how very careful the statement above is phrased. "seems", "so far", "not clear", "can't rule out".

I don't think anyone here has denied the possibility(!) of premonitions either.
 

Offline echochartruse

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 395
    • View Profile
Maybe you would find more attentive listeners in a science fiction forum. People there might happily speculate about speculations. Or a spiritual/new age/paranormal forum. Some place where "facts" are accepted without demanding evidence.
Sorry if I read you incorrectly, just that I thought you disagreed premonitions are scientifically based.
 

The Naked Scientists Forum


 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums