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Author Topic: How is it possible that some people can see or predict the future?  (Read 30267 times)

Offline echochartruse

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I'm pretty sure we don't all agree that premonitions occur.

This may be one or are they pointing their finger at another or just summarising?
« Last Edit: 08/10/2009 02:23:51 by echochartruse »
 

Offline echochartruse

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In other words, it was simply a lucky guess (or I should say nightmare).  As I said before...

Do we have any idea how astronomically ridiculous it is to predict such a series of rare events? 
Of course we don't. 
Sound to me like someone in denial
 

Offline RD

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Echochartruse you've twice used the phrase "in denial" on this page to two contributors, (you really need to expand your repertoire).
The inference of “in denial" being that we are rejecting something which has been proven to be true.
That people can see future events has not been proven to be true. Your own examples of premonitions Bureau / agency being abandoned shows that people's nightmares, however vivid, are not visions of the future, and recording them was a pointless exercise,
 (apart from possibly being research material for someone who wants to make a blockbuster disaster movie).

… you certainly cannot completely rule out this effect.

So the Professor is saying what has been said here: that claims of seeing the future cannot be proven not to have occurred, but as I have pointed out, because something cannot be proven to be false does not make it true. I can claim I saw Jesus Christ five minutes ago when I went for a piss, no-one can prove I didn’t, but others not being able to prove my claim false does not make my claim true.

[BTW it’s not true, I didn’t see Christ, it was Buddha]   
« Last Edit: 08/10/2009 05:01:20 by RD »
 

Offline echochartruse

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I am a trained scientist.  I worked in the field predicting failures.

Scientists, let me explain the science of predicting failures. 


I knew that I just wanted to you say it and let others know it has nothing to do with premonitions
 

Offline Karsten

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Heck, if I noticed a bunch of wild animals running towards the hills and ignore me, I would most likely follow them. And I am not even in tune with behavior and habits of the animals in my area.
 

Offline echochartruse

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So the Professor is saying what has been said here: that claims of seeing the future cannot be proven not to have occurred, but as I have pointed out, because something cannot be proven to be false does not make it true. I can claim I saw Jesus Christ five minutes ago when I went for a piss, no-one can prove I didn’t, but others not being able to prove my claim false does not make my claim true.

[BTW it’s not true, I didn’t see Christ, it was Buddha]   

And becasue it can't be proven doesn't mean it doesn't exist.......correct?

"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - C.G.Jung

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Especially with the progress in quantum mechanics, many of these anomalous, rare events do not seem so anomalous or rare any more and further they seem quite logical. There have always been the debunker's and strict disbelievers dedicated to dismissing it all without so much as a glance at the  data.To paraphrase a comment overheard at a symposium on physics, one of the guests( a physicist) said that even if there were proof of such things, he would not accept it.
http://knol.google.com/k/k-molto-phd/physics-and-the-paranormal/12dcvs1lr1twq/8#

Quote
Sir William Crookes: 1832-1919. Discoverer of the element thallium. Elected fellow of the Royal Society in 1863. Royal Gold Medal 1875, Davy Medal 1888, Sir Joseph Copley Medal 1904, knighted in 1897, Order of Merit 1910. Invented the cathode-ray tube.
Crookes first began his investigations into 'psychic' phenomena in 1869 as a hostile doubter. In his article, 'Spiritualism Viewed by the Light of Modern Science' he declared:
"The increased employment of scientific methods will produce a race of observers who will drive the worthless residuum of spiritualism hence into the unknown limbo of magic and necromancy."
Crookes' experiments with Daniel D. Home demonstrated the existence of a 'psychic force' wholly ignored by science.

Premonitions: Fact or fiction?
by Karen Gillespie


Quote
The brain is beginning to sound more like a computer that an organic structure, but that is the glory of it. To disregard it's unknown possible abilities is tantamount to ignorance. The next step is to satisfactorily ascertain that premonitions are therefore a variation of a predetermined frequency that someone's brain is picking up on. To fully accept this it would be of some help to have a basic understanding of Time/space with in the Physics arena and this is really only comprehended by the great minds that study that particular discipline, suffice to say it is a sound scientific principal, one that is overwhelming to the average individual. However, there are prime examples of the brains ability to receive information other than via the 5 senses. Feelings; are a perfect example of the brains ability to pick up on and loosely decode a frequency that is not detectable via the other 5 senses. Every felt like someone was watching you or that someone was standing behind you or every felt anxious at being in a place and yet there is no visible reason to feel that way? Clearly the brain is giving us information that it is gathering. yet you are unaware, until you get a feeling. Another example is the chemistry that exists between a man and woman, it is based on the brains ability to detect the frequency of the hormones excreted by the individuals bodies. So with all these known and credible examples it only compound the assumption, that if this occurs then the probability exists that premonitions are frequencies that the human brain is designed to recognise. In light of this brief exploration into the theory that premonitions are fact, it is reasonable to deduce that premonitions are indeed a fact, albeit one that has not yet been fully researched and documented at this present time.

the Journal of Parapsychology
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Marie D.Jones who stated that: "We know at the quantum level [time] is not linear and that the past,present and future all exist at one.For every now we experience, a positive wave flows into the future and a negative wave flows into the past.not unlike the ripple effect created by dropping a pebble into the water". This certainly has implications on telepathy, pre/retrocognition, premonitions and our everyday lives in general.

And for the naysayers of the paranormal, it is always important to maintain a dose of healthy skepticism but remember that the absence of proof is not the proof of absence.

'the absence of proof is not the proof of absence'........[/quote]

whether it is a ‘so-called premonitions.’
‘phenomenon’
‘Coincidence’
something does happen and when we learn to accept it we will then understand How it IS possible that some people can see or predict the future?

 

Offline RD

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And because it can't be proven doesn't mean it doesn't exist.......correct?

No, if a claim cannot be proven false it could be true or false, it just cannot be proven to be false.
If you want to attempt to prove your hypothesis is true, (that some people can see the future), you would have to provide convincing evidence, you haven't.

As I have mentioned (twice) testing your hypothesis is easy, ask the alleged psychic to provide specific details in their prediction which could not be extrapolated from past events, e.g. the numberplate of the car hit by a meteorite, that level of detail would be convincing evidence of prognostication. Saying "a plane will crash close to an airport" is too vague, globally there is a plane crash daily, and most crash on take off or landing, (i.e. near airport).
People who claim to have seen the future are not necessarily fraudsters, they may sincerely believe it, but they have misinterpreted their vivid dream as seeing future events.
 
« Last Edit: 09/10/2009 06:11:12 by RD »
 

Offline Geezer

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And because it can't be proven doesn't mean it doesn't exist.......correct?

No, if a claim cannot be proven false it could be true or false, it just cannot be proven to be false.
If you want to attempt to prove your hypothesis is true, (that some people can see the future), you would have to provide convincing evidence, you haven't.

As I have mentioned (twice) testing your hypothesis is easy, ask the alleged psychic to provide specific details in their prediction which could not be extrapolated from past events, e.g. the numberplate of the car hit by a meteorite, that level of detail would be convincing evidence of prognostication. Saying "a plane will crash close to an airport" is too vague, globally there is a plane crash daily, and most crash on take off or landing, (i.e. near airport).
People who claim to have seen the future are not necessarily fraudsters, they may sincerely believe it, but they have misinterpreted their vivid dream as prognostication.   
 

RD is probably being a tad extreme in his requirements. I have a simpler solution. Simply get your psychic to tell me the numbers to pick in the Super Lotto for next week. That should be quite sufficient, and entirely conclusive. Please do not post the numbers on TNS, that would upset the experiment. Just send them to me in a message. Many thanks!
 

Offline tiptop

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As science is a continuation of new discoveries, lets hope that we are not biased so to blind our discoveries.

Also I'm very interested to find more information about humans developing their sense of smell as dogs have, that could be very effective in medicine
So you see, Scientists, it makes scientific sense that dogs can smell (in effect) cancer, and it makes sense that Dr Kincheloe can subconsciously smell certain chemicals in the women he treats and may even have some sort of allergic reaction to it.



 

Offline tiptop

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Experts say that in order for mirror neurons to fire and trigger empathy and compassion, an individual must see the suffering person. But this is a shortsighted view (no pun intended), because it cannot account for instances of profound empathy and compassion in which vision or any other physical sense plays no role.

Consider the experience of Larry Kincheloe, MD, an obstetrician-gynecologist in Oklahoma City. I received a remarkable letter from him, in which he described how premonitions and bodily sensations sometimes set the stage for compassionate, empathic patient care. His experiences have led him to propose a new field he calls "intuitive obstetrics."

After completing his training in obstetrics and gynecology, Kincheloe joined a very traditional medical group and practiced for about four years without any unusual events. Then one Saturday afternoon he received a call from the hospital that a patient of his was in early labor. He gave routine orders, and since this was her first baby he assumed that delivery would be hours away. While raking leaves, he experienced an overwhelming feeling that he had to go to the hospital. He immediately called labor and delivery and was told by the nurse that everything was going fine; his patient was only five centimeters dilated and delivery was not expected for several more hours.
Even with this reassurance, the feeling got stronger and Kincheloe began to feel an aching pain in the center of his chest. He described it as similar to the feeling one has at sixteen years old and loses their first love -- an achingly sad, melancholy sense. The more he tried to ignore the sensation the stronger it grew, until it reached the point where he felt he was drowning. By this time he was desperate to get to the hospital. He jumped into his car and sped away. As he neared the hospital he began to feel better. When he walked onto the labor unit, there was an overwhelming sense of relief.

When he reached the labor and delivery area, the nurse was just walking out of his patient's labor room. When she asked why he was there, Kincheloe honestly admitted that he did not know, only that he felt he was needed and that his place was with his patient. She gave him a strange look and told him that she had just checked the woman and that she was only seven centimeters dilated. At that moment a cry came from the labor room. He rushed to the room just in time to deliver a healthy infant. Afterward, when the nurse asked how he had known to come to the hospital after being told that delivery was hours away, he had no answer.

After that day, Kincheloe started paying attention to his feelings. He's learned to trust them. Having experienced these intuitive sensations hundreds of times, he routinely acts on them. Usually by the time he gets a call from labor and delivery, he is already getting dressed or is in his car on the way to the hospital. He often answers the phone by saying, "I know. I am on my way," knowing that it is labor and delivery calling him to come in. This is now such a common occurrence among the labor and delivery staff that they use his chest sensations as a clinical tool in predicting when his patients will deliver.

Dr. Kincheloe's experiences suggest that physical sensations can mediate empathic connections with others, beyond the range of the physical senses. These physical symptoms are like psychic cell phones uniting a distant individual who is in need with someone else.


Read more at: newbielink:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-larry-dossey/i-feel-your-pain-fact-or_b_207055.html [nonactive]


Read more at: newbielink:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-larry-dossey/i-feel-your-pain-fact-or_b_207055.html [nonactive]

very interesting.
« Last Edit: 18/10/2009 22:32:19 by tiptop »
 

Offline Geezer

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As science is a continuation of new discoveries, lets hope that we are not biased so to blind our discoveries.

Fear not!

Can't speak for others, but I can assure you that anything that gives me even the slightest edge at predicting future events will have my undivided attention.
 

Offline glovesforfoxes

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approx 6,500,000,000 billion people on the planet, - a 1 billion for people, children, babies who can't communicate well (you'll see why this is important)

24 hours in a day.

approx 8 hours sleep per day for one person.

24-8=16.

365 days in a year.

365*16=5840 conscious hours per year for one person.

5840*5,500,000,000=3.21200*10 to the power of 13. that's 32120000000000 hours conscious a year.

let's say 100 years is recent enough history to be considered reliable.

= 3212000000000000 hours that people have to do things in. chance of a miracle is 1 in 1,000,000?

3212000000000000/1000000=3,212,000,000 miracles so far this century! woohoo!

the actual maths is unimportant. the take home message from this is: when there are a ridiculously large, unimaginable number of people all experiencing and occasionally experiencing weird stuff with access to media which reports the weird stuff but ignores the normal, it begins to look like evidence where there is none. humans are very, very bad at spotting randomness. we see patterns where there are none. that's why we have science and mathematical analysis, because the mind is inherently faulty when it comes to finding the truth.
« Last Edit: 19/10/2009 00:49:59 by glovesforfoxes »
 

Offline Geezer

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As science is a continuation of new discoveries, lets hope that we are not biased so to blind our discoveries.

Fear not!

Can't speak for others, but I can assure you that anything that gives me even the slightest edge at predicting future events will have my undivided attention.

Despite the above, Mrs Geezer does have an uncanny knack of working the system. She takes advantage of the fact that luck is rather "lumpy". Gamblers really do have winning and losing streaks. The trick is knowing when to quit when you are on a losing streak.
 

Offline Geezer

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That's weird! My hand just shot into the air, quite involuntarily.
 

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