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Offline Mr. Scientist

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The Only One Mind

And here is where things get even stranger. Referring back to reference (1), the work of Ludvic Bass shows how that the plural ''I'' or singular consciousness seems to be an illusion itself. By his mathematical proof
he shows empiracle evidence that there can ONLY BE ONE CONSCIOUSNESS! It truely was a remarkable work, and was heavily influenced by Schrodingers analysis of the world (8). Now - if indeed there is only one consciousness
ever in existence then that really helps the physical theories of quantum mechanics to make assertions concerning the psychological problem of time. If there is only one consciousness, then there is also only one experience of
time! I've just shown consistently that if there is only one time, then there seems to be indications that there is only one time dimension and not two as proposed by the Two-Time Physics, which involves a metric with an extra
time dimension, but due to symmetry, it also requires an extra spatial dimension, so the theory is actually quite costly in the sense it is even more complicated.

Again however, if there is only one time ever, why then can we experience time singularily? Is time like a field in which we are all submerged within its structure, sharing this strange imaginary manifold, or can consciousness,
the only one consciousness imply that even the experience of time is also singular (don't get mixed up with the concept of a singularity here - not intended)?

This is more difficult to comprehend. It would mean that time truely is a product of consciousness itself - or if you prefer, consciousness is a product of time. I prefer the latter condition here. Also, if one where to take relativity
seriously, then our experience of space is also only one space, made itself of the geometric vectors making a three-dimensional continuum - but its hard to even entertain a single space theory simply because how does one interpret
that? It truely would all come down to verging on a solipsistic interpretation of the world, where consciousness, time and space are not shared as experiences by the 6-odd billion minds present on Earth, but rather the experiences
becomes just one experience itself; that same logical reasoning in which Ludvic Bass shows in his paper.

To expand this further, Bass shows how if there is a singular master consciousness, then it may have direct applications for psychic conditional theories, which usually remain outside the conventional wisdom of science. This
is really because of the skepticism behind such a theory making it a psuedo-theory at best. But, many scientists in the past have not only entertained the idea that psychic or telekinetic powers where possible, but even
Einstein himself once admitted that if such abilities where true, then it would be a matter of quantum physics - and with the models we have today of quantum physics we might be able to entertain such controversial
theories without any dogmatic paranoia.

In a one-time, one-consciousness theory, we could say that all time has already passed for all observers which actually fits neatly with relativistic equations. In relativity, the diffeomorphisms of the quantized schrodinger
context has itself a decription of a timeless universe. As beautiful as it sounds, the idea of pure timelessness may be an indication of why there is one consciousness only ever present and how time itself had already been
experienced. Hence, the idea is that if all-time has been experienced, then time may as well not exist! Is this what the diffeomorphisms are hinting at?

I must admit, even i was kind of surprised by the idea, and how well it answers for Bass' work. Essentially, a type of unification by logical deduction seems to provide not only a union to a one-time experience in Bass' model, to
the theory of a singular conciousness, to the fitting hyothesis that such a result would lead mathematically to a timeless universe, because it would mean that none of us can be unique when consciousness is involved,
nor can our experience of time, and [exactly] when we have experienced such a passing of time; whether it is you, or President Lincon, to some future mind of a man or a woman, all these experiences of time can only be reduced to one
irreducible block of time. Quite rightly speaking from terminology the timelessness interpretation is called ''Block Time (9).''

1 - Hermathena, a Dublin University Review, 'The Mind of Wigners Friend' 1971 by Ludvic Bass

2 - Parallel Universes; The Search for Other Worlds, 1985, F. A Wolf PhD.

3 - This is the theory of a universe devoid of matter, but only pure force of gravity.

4 - Space does not exist, so time can. Fotini Markopoulou, Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics (Dated: December 1, 2008)

... also read for interest; Fotini Markopoulou, \The internal description of a causal set: What the universe looks like from the inside", Commun.Math.Phys.
211 (2000) 559-583, arXiv:gr-qc/9811053

5 - From an essay made, i concluded a timelessness creates more problems than what it solves. A paradox concerning this involved the following:


(This was part of a larger work)
« Last Edit: 05/10/2009 14:39:30 by Mr. Scientist »


 

Offline Bored chemist

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The Quantum Physicist who proved There was Only One Mind
« Reply #1 on: 05/10/2009 19:19:56 »
"he shows empiracle evidence that there can ONLY BE ONE CONSCIOUSNESS"
Then it must be me.
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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The Quantum Physicist who proved There was Only One Mind
« Reply #2 on: 05/10/2009 22:33:03 »
What do you mean?
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #3 on: 06/10/2009 07:06:01 »
I know that I have a consciousness; you say there's only one; it must be mine.
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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The Quantum Physicist who proved There was Only One Mind
« Reply #4 on: 06/10/2009 09:27:32 »
I know that I have a consciousness; you say there's only one; it must be mine.

I don't say there is one consciousness. I accept that quantum mechanics predicts this counterintuitive FACT, and reference to this is given by Ludvic Bass who was a student of the legndary schrodinger:

1 - Hermathena, a Dublin University Review, 'The Mind of Wigners Friend' 1971 by Ludvic Bass
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #5 on: 06/10/2009 19:41:49 »
Without making some other assumption(s) there's no way that QM can predict anything at all about consciousness.

If this guy says there's only one consciousness and yet we know he's wrong (because you and I are both aware, but you and I are different) then he has got one or more of his assumptions wrong.

It reminds me of the deluded maths prof who claimed to have proved that the existence of God had a probability of (I forget the exact number) about 0.6 or something. He hadn't noticed that the existence of God was a tacit part of one of his (unstated) assumptions.
I wonder if his students have stopped taking the piss out of him yet. After all, if you start with the existence of God as a (hidden) fact, then prove the probability of His existence is 0.6 then not only have you screwed up in making your assumptions, but you have screwed up the arithmetic too.
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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The Quantum Physicist who proved There was Only One Mind
« Reply #6 on: 06/10/2009 19:56:49 »
Without making some other assumption(s) there's no way that QM can predict anything at all about consciousness.

If this guy says there's only one consciousness and yet we know he's wrong (because you and I are both aware, but you and I are different) then he has got one or more of his assumptions wrong.

It reminds me of the deluded maths prof who claimed to have proved that the existence of God had a probability of (I forget the exact number) about 0.6 or something. He hadn't noticed that the existence of God was a tacit part of one of his (unstated) assumptions.
I wonder if his students have stopped taking the piss out of him yet. After all, if you start with the existence of God as a (hidden) fact, then prove the probability of His existence is 0.6 then not only have you screwed up in making your assumptions, but you have screwed up the arithmetic too.


That's simply not true; and a fabricated statement in itself, since;

A) You apparently do not know enough about quantum mechanics to state it cannot say ''anything'' about it - and

B) You have not even read Bass' paper. Might i suggest before you flout it with the highest impunity, read it first.
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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The Quantum Physicist who proved There was Only One Mind
« Reply #7 on: 06/10/2009 20:23:29 »
This might elevate more of an appealing read:

''Imagine that Wigner is approaching a quantum traffic light with two possibilities, red and green; at the same time his friend is approaching the same light  from the perpendicular road.  Being busy Americans, they both choose green.  Unfortunately, their choices are contradictory; if both choices materialize at the same time, there would be pandemonium.  Obviously, only one of their choices counts, but whose?

            After many decades, three physicists at different places and times (Ludwig Bass in Australia, myself at Oregon, and Casey Blood at Rutgers, New Jersey), independently discovered the solution of the paradox: consciousness is one, nonlocal and cosmic, behind the two people’s local individuality.  They both choose but from this nonordinary state of one consciousness (which I call the quantum self) where there is no local individuality or selfishness so contradiction can be avoided.  This allows the common sense result that in many such crossings, Wigner and his friend each would get green fifty percent of the time; yet for any individual crossing, a creative opportunity for getting green is left open for each.'' [/b]

http://www.amitgoswami.org/consciousness-quantum-physics/

But then again, it would be better if you just read Ludvic Bass' account in his paper Hermethena.
 

Offline that mad man

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The Quantum Physicist who proved There was Only One Mind
« Reply #8 on: 07/10/2009 21:07:05 »
A lot of QM is based on imaginary scenarios like the one above. QM can predict a lot of things but it does not mean that they will become true or a fact only that its a possibility.

Quote: "To expand this further, Bass shows how if there is a singular master consciousness, then it may have direct applications for psychic conditional theories, which usually remain outside the conventional wisdom of science"

It may be logical reasoning but a lot of his stuff is full if, may and could and not will.
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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The Quantum Physicist who proved There was Only One Mind
« Reply #9 on: 07/10/2009 23:39:36 »
So far, it's the most logical conclusion based from the soil of QM.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #10 on: 08/10/2009 20:02:54 »
In reallity people don't choose the colour of traffic lights so it's a non-problem.
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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The Quantum Physicist who proved There was Only One Mind
« Reply #11 on: 10/10/2009 15:11:54 »
Terrible analogy. I don't even properly understand it.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #12 on: 10/10/2009 18:08:17 »
Terrible analogy. I don't even properly understand it.
Then you shouldn't have cited it.
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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The Quantum Physicist who proved There was Only One Mind
« Reply #13 on: 10/10/2009 18:20:10 »
Cited what?
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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The Quantum Physicist who proved There was Only One Mind
« Reply #14 on: 10/10/2009 18:20:52 »
Perhaps you could also make these replies more than a few words long?
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #15 on: 10/10/2009 21:26:38 »
Cited what?
The terrible analogy.

Anyway, since there are many people in the world and they all have separate consciouses there clearly can't be just one.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #16 on: 10/10/2009 21:26:59 »
Perhaps you could also make these replies more than a few words long?
What for?
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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The Quantum Physicist who proved There was Only One Mind
« Reply #17 on: 11/10/2009 01:17:10 »
Cited what?
The terrible analogy.

Anyway, since there are many people in the world and they all have separate consciouses there clearly can't be just one.

These are points which Bass has certainly raised in his quantum mechanical paper. Did you by any chance get to read it? Because until then, you cannot really speculate on the details.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #18 on: 11/10/2009 14:36:59 »
Since I know that there are more than 1 consiousnes in the world I know that any suggestion that there is only one must be wrong.
I don't need to waste my time on learning the details or even reading it. It's plainly false.
 

Offline glovesforfoxes

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« Reply #19 on: 11/10/2009 19:20:08 »
i agree with bored chemist wholeheartedly. you don't need to read the bible to know that the idea of Yahweh's existence is not scientifically plausible.

besides that, you have to assume that consciousness is something material, definable. consciousness is larger than the sum of it's parts, i think. scientific research into consciousness is still very much in it's infancy.

also, you're using QM to explain classical phenomenon. why you're attempting this with a biological, complex system when the unification between QM and the macroscopic world has not even been done on the level of simple atomic structures like carbon and graphite is confusing, scientifically, but of course is fascinating :)
« Last Edit: 11/10/2009 23:23:19 by glovesforfoxes »
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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The Quantum Physicist who proved There was Only One Mind
« Reply #20 on: 12/10/2009 02:35:35 »
Since I know that there are more than 1 consiousnes in the world I know that any suggestion that there is only one must be wrong.
I don't need to waste my time on learning the details or even reading it. It's plainly false.

Your logic restricts this entire hypothesis. Tell me, since i know of only one universe does this mean that the idea of other universes couldn't be plausible? - i mean, this is the logic you are appealing to. Just because you have sense of one thing and not of the other doesn't really disclude the contending theory in any way.

We are already aware of the strange predictions of quantum mechanics, and many scientists realize the difficulties in explaining quantum mechanics when the observer is involved, as so many cases are. This sense is much the same, since we only ever experience the one consciousness, but mathematically, Ludvic Bass (independantly from two other physicists along the same time) predicted the answer to one of the most ambiguous paradox of quantum mechanics, The Mind of Wigners Friend. The answer was only one consciousness existing, and whateverb we experience is but one side of a single (multi-faced) object.
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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The Quantum Physicist who proved There was Only One Mind
« Reply #21 on: 12/10/2009 02:38:01 »
i agree with bored chemist wholeheartedly. you don't need to read the bible to know that the idea of Yahweh's existence is not scientifically plausible.

besides that, you have to assume that consciousness is something material, definable. consciousness is larger than the sum of it's parts, i think. scientific research into consciousness is still very much in it's infancy.

also, you're using QM to explain classical phenomenon. why you're attempting this with a biological, complex system when the unification between QM and the macroscopic world has not even been done on the level of simple atomic structures like carbon and graphite is confusing, scientifically, but of course is fascinating :)

It does not predict that consciousness is material at all. I do not understand why you have said this.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #22 on: 12/10/2009 07:00:11 »
"Your logic restricts this entire hypothesis. "
It's not just My logic; any logic shows this is rubbish.
"Tell me, since i know of only one universe does this mean that the idea of other universes couldn't be plausible? - i mean, this is the logic you are appealing to."
No it's the exact oposite. I know there's More than one.
"We are already aware of the strange predictions of quantum mechanics,"
And a none of them are proven false by the evidence like your idea.
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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The Quantum Physicist who proved There was Only One Mind
« Reply #23 on: 13/10/2009 00:29:54 »
"Your logic restricts this entire hypothesis. "
It's not just My logic; any logic shows this is rubbish.
"Tell me, since i know of only one universe does this mean that the idea of other universes couldn't be plausible? - i mean, this is the logic you are appealing to."
No it's the exact oposite. I know there's More than one.
"We are already aware of the strange predictions of quantum mechanics,"
And a none of them are proven false by the evidence like your idea.

Oh you know there is more then one?

Then what the hell are we all doing? We shold hit you with a PhD and you should rewrite physic for us!
 

Offline Dimi

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« Reply #24 on: 13/10/2009 06:58:19 »
Well I find it hard to reply to this topic, my wording for the idea would be much differently. And... my reply is most likely a ramble :)

I'd say - break down the consious into seperate levels.

We have a consious which allows us to do daily chores; call this the 'ego' or whatnot. And then I'd say there is a 'pack' conscious. This pack conscious is what we use to work together as a system.

Think about animals in a pack - they work together, right? Why can't humans do it? Of course, we haven't been able to work together for a very long time :)

But I suppose look at your friends and family. It can work as a pack, sometimes your ideas just flow into each other and you can work on helping each other easily.

Though, if we are going to go even deeper and look at it in terms of energy, then life itself is an illusion then we are at the whims of the energy itself. Since everything IS energy, it would be safe to assume that everything is apart together - not bounded by a shape or form, its only that its being interpreted. That would even be to do with the conscious, if we are just made of this energy, then we would really come from the same place. What's to say what one person sees is how another one percieves.

Time is just a concept created by us just so we can work in a more organised fashion. It is in a way to put a boundary on a boundless thing. Though, we are't made for anything boundless (Thank g-d!!!)

That brings up another interesting question in my mind though - infinity. Is there really a way to comprehend infinity? We just know that it goes on.. its something that doesn't stop. We only make it seem to stop (thereby making it non-infinite) because we need to put a boundary on it in order to comprehend it and not to crash and die.
« Last Edit: 13/10/2009 07:02:04 by Dimi »
 

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The Quantum Physicist who proved There was Only One Mind
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