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Author Topic: The Quantum Physicist who proved There was Only One Mind  (Read 23833 times)

Offline Mr. Scientist

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The Quantum Physicist who proved There was Only One Mind
« Reply #50 on: 21/10/2009 00:50:13 »
In that case, i'll need to explain how statical mechanics works from a wave function point of view - funnily, this was just discussed in a different thread.

Suppose the proper definition of the arguement; Wigners Friend.

Wigner leaves the labaratory leaving a friend to observe whether schrodingers cat is dead or alive... however, when Wigner returns, his wave function states that the cat must still be in a state of superpositioning, unless the superpositioning has been determined at some previous point, or unless the determination was set when Wigner learned of the information from his friend.

Now, this is actually a real paradox in physics, because essentially, the wave function is very much part and parcel of the whole game to why we come to know anything.

p.s. I don't usually accept the cat model due to decoherence i.e. the particles which make the cat are far too entangled not to be in one state or the other. Sometimes its best to use some form of matter which easily manifests its wave form.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #51 on: 21/10/2009 07:12:17 »
You are not winning any prizes for clear communication but if I understand the "problem" correctly it's simple. The friend's observation collapsed the cat's wave function. After that, there's no paradox.
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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The Quantum Physicist who proved There was Only One Mind
« Reply #52 on: 21/10/2009 08:02:27 »
But wigners friend surely is just as much as the quantum mechanical veiwpoint?

http://www.soc.iastate.edu/Sapp/phil_sci_lecture24.html

''The "measurement" you make at a given time is to ask Wigner's friend if the cat is dead or alive. If we consider your friend as part of the experimental setup, quantum mechanics predicts that before you ask Wigner's friend whether the cat is dead or alive, he is in a superposition of definitely believing the cat is dead and definitely believing that the cat is alive.''

''Wigner argued that this was an absurd consequence of Bohr's view. People simply do not exist in superposed belief-states. Wigner's solution was that, contrary to what Bohr claimed, there is a natural division between what constitutes a measurement and what does not--the presence of a conscious observer.''
 

Offline glovesforfoxes

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The Quantum Physicist who proved There was Only One Mind
« Reply #53 on: 21/10/2009 15:11:56 »
so remind me - what has this got to do with only a single consciousness existing..?
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #54 on: 21/10/2009 17:39:56 »
Who cares? Maybe he was planning to get to that bit. I can save him some trouble.
The thing about his comment is that it's not true anyway.
The asserted problem is that "''The "measurement" you make at a given time is to ask Wigner's friend if the cat is dead or alive."
That's not the case; the measurement is made by Wigner's friend.
At that point the waveform colapses and the cat is no longer in a superposition of states. It's one or the other, but not both.
 If the friend gets hit by a bus before he tells anyone it doesn't matter. The cat remains alive or dead as he found it.
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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The Quantum Physicist who proved There was Only One Mind
« Reply #55 on: 21/10/2009 23:21:01 »
Maybe he was not.
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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« Reply #56 on: 21/10/2009 23:22:43 »
so remind me - what has this got to do with only a single consciousness existing..?

It has to do with how psi psi* interact. It has to do with how consciousness effects the observed and how it works vice versa.
 

Offline yor_on

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The Quantum Physicist who proved There was Only One Mind
« Reply #57 on: 23/10/2009 07:21:07 »
I think this discussion have far reaching implications. And I'm proud to join it.
As we all have to admit there is that distinct possibility of all being one.
After all, what is a TOE without that?

And thinking of it BC I'm the one in that case :)
And as that must mean that I know all mathematics there is?
Where's my NobelPrize?

Awh, I'll just have to give it to me.
Sorry Mr S.

I can't agree with you and I have proof.
"Wait the doorbell is ringing..."

No, I do see that you are serious but?
How about this guy then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9_Descartes

« Last Edit: 23/10/2009 07:23:40 by yor_on »
 

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The Quantum Physicist who proved There was Only One Mind
« Reply #57 on: 23/10/2009 07:21:07 »

 

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