# The Naked Scientists Forum

### Author Topic: What is the nature of h-bar ?  (Read 7846 times)

#### socratus

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 329
##### What is the nature of h-bar ?
« on: 25/10/2009 11:46:02 »
What is the nature of  h-bar ?

In my peasant opinion  the " photon" is a particle ( h ),
or a " noun.",  who can act as  a " verb."
It means photon ( as a " noun." ) can produce wave length
acting ( as  a " verb." ),  according to formula E =h*f,
where h* is corpuscular, who has spin h/2pi.
The spin h/2pi means the particle rotates around its axis.

Now I can clearly understand and read  the formula E =h*f :
The particle ( h ) rotate around of its axis ( h* = 2pi )
is action of frequency (f) which make up energy (E ).

As result of this action is possible to detect electrical
wave length in surroundings .
== .
==== .
http://www.worldnpa.org/php2/index.php?tab0=Scientists&tab1=Display&id=1372
===================== . .

#### Vern

• Neilep Level Member
• Posts: 2072
##### What is the nature of h-bar ?
« Reply #1 on: 26/10/2009 03:02:37 »
I think you stated the answer to your question. h bar is h divided by 2 PI. 2 PI is the amount of radians it takes to make a circle.  So h bar injects the circle into the argument. Since the circle is usually in the argument, it is just a short cut.

#### socratus

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 329
##### What is the nature of h-bar ?
« Reply #2 on: 26/10/2009 04:55:29 »
I think you stated the answer to your question. h bar is h divided by 2 PI. 2 PI is the amount of radians it takes to make a circle.  So h bar injects the circle into the argument. Since the circle is usually in the argument, it is just a short cut.
==========
Thank you.
Israel.

#### Vern

• Neilep Level Member
• Posts: 2072
##### What is the nature of h-bar ?
« Reply #3 on: 27/10/2009 05:52:59 »
It gets more interesting when you try and determine why it is that the circle is usually in the argument. Could it be that most stuff is made of little circles?

#### socratus

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 329
##### What is the nature of h-bar ?
« Reply #4 on: 28/10/2009 05:37:58 »
It gets more interesting when you try and determine
why it is that the circle is usually in the argument.
Could it be that most stuff is made of little circles?

====
First
We are talking about most stuff ( circle ‘ virtual’ particles)
in the Vacuum (T=0K ) – ‘Dirac see’.
Second.
How can the visual mass/ matter in Universe be created
from unseen ( circle particles) - ‘ virtual stuff ‘ ?
========= .

#### Nizzle

• Hero Member
• Posts: 964
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• Extropian by choice!
##### What is the nature of h-bar ?
« Reply #5 on: 28/10/2009 10:17:52 »
How can the visual mass/ matter in Universe be created
from unseen ( circle particles) - ‘ virtual stuff ‘ ?
========= .

How can a windmill generate electricity from 'invisible wind'?
It's not because we can't see it, that it's not there..

#### Vern

• Neilep Level Member
• Posts: 2072
##### What is the nature of h-bar ?
« Reply #6 on: 28/10/2009 20:07:51 »
Quote from: socratus
How can the visual mass/ matter in Universe be created
from unseen ( circle particles) - ‘ virtual stuff ‘ ?
No not virtual stuff; little pieces of light trapped in resonant patterns.

#### socratus

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 329
##### What is the nature of h-bar ?
« Reply #7 on: 28/10/2009 20:40:00 »
1.
h is Quantum of action.
2.
h exists because ‘ angular momentum ‘  is quantized..
h is not a particle, either.
3.
h is (h) just a constant of nature.
h has no spin, h is just a constant
( h) isn't  the particle. Just one of many characteristics it has.
4.
h-bar is the Maltese representation of the Arabic letter ha.
They also have nouns and verbs in Maltese, but theirs actually make
sense to speakers of at least one more language than you do.
5.
. . . .
the inappropriate units of measurement in which
h-bar is too often expressed, most often
Joule-seconds or Newton-meters.
6.
Planck's " h" is a quantity of action. Despite the ambiguity
beloved by present physicists, a quantity is not a particle.
7
Yes h is a quantum of action (not a particle),
Dimension = Energy x Time (classical mechanic) OR
Charge x Charge with Dirac (quantum mechanic) so
Energy = (Charge)˛/T and Mass = (Charge/c)˛/T.
/ Laurent DAMOIS /
8.
Please excuse me for saying so, dear peasant, but you've
not a particle, and it doesn't rotate on its axis
/  glird  /
9.
Now you are almost completely illicit.
You certainly haven't got a clue what you are talking about.
/ Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA /
==== .
#
There are many opinions about ( h).
And  we can see that (h ) as ‘ something’ has many characteristics.
Question.
To whom do the characteristics belong :
to wave, to Micky Mouse, to Superman . . . .  ?

It is hard to me to understand those people who observe
and see only one parameter of some object/ subject.
It reminds me the old story about three blind Indian men
who studied an elephant. One touched the elephant’s leg
an said it was a column, another one touching a stomach
told it was a ball, and the last holding the tail said it was
a snake. I think the Plank's constant (h ) is a ‘ modern
scientific elephant ‘ and many experts try to study it
using the ‘ blind indian method.’
=== .
S.

#### Vern

• Neilep Level Member
• Posts: 2072
##### What is the nature of h-bar ?
« Reply #8 on: 28/10/2009 23:02:20 »
I suspect that the Planck action h derives from two properties of space. These are electric permittivity and magnetic permeability. These limit the amplitude of the electric and magnetic components of photons. The electric and magnetic amplitude limit of empty space is a constant. If it were variable it would be part of Planck's equation. We include only the rate of change of the field in the equation, E = hv. If the amplitude of v were allowed to vary, that amplitude would be in the equation.

#### socratus

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 329
##### What is the nature of h-bar ?
« Reply #9 on: 29/10/2009 05:16:31 »
I suspect that the Planck action h derives from
two properties of space. These are electric permittivity
and magnetic permeability. These limit the amplitude of
the electric and magnetic components of photons.
The electric and magnetic amplitude limit of empty space
is a constant.
If it were variable it would be part of Planck's equation.
We include only the rate of change of the field in the equation,
E = hv. If the amplitude of v were allowed to vary,
that amplitude would be in the equation.
===================================

There are four parameters to radiation: speed, frequency,
wave length  and amplitude, actually only two; if the speed
is considered constant,  and wave length is the inverse
of frequency.

If all there is to energy is "E=hf," then "h," rather bar-h,
is the amplitude of the radiation. It is the minimum amplitude
of radiation that can affect matter. (frequency without amplitude
is not detectable.)

Once the frequency of radiation exceeds the wavelength
wherein it interacts with molecules and atoms, it ceases its
particulate nature. It is just the particulate nature of matter
that makes certain wavelengths of energy seem particulate.
================ .
What is conclusion ?

a)
The electric and magnetic amplitude ( of particle, I hope)
limit of empty space is a constant.  / Vern /
b)
If it were variable it would be part of Planck's equation.
/ Vern /
c)
It is the minimum amplitude of radiation that can affect matter.
(frequency without amplitude  is not detectable.)
==== .
Questions .
1.
What is the border of the minimum amplitude ?
2.
We have formula: E=h*f
h is corpuscular,
f is frequency (wave length , amplitude )
These two qualities unit in one formula.
How to explain the unity of this strange DUALISM ?
======
S.

#### Mr. Scientist

• Neilep Level Member
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##### What is the nature of h-bar ?
« Reply #10 on: 29/10/2009 05:55:52 »
It gets more interesting when you try and determine why it is that the circle is usually in the argument. Could it be that most stuff is made of little circles?

There is one scientific problem with this notion - and that is that circles havea geometric property. Particles today are considered theoretically as being zero-dimensional and pointlike.

#### socratus

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 329
##### What is the nature of h-bar ?
« Reply #11 on: 29/10/2009 11:05:15 »
Particles today are considered theoretically
as being zero-dimensional and pointlike.
====================

You are right and here is the problem of paradoxes in the Physics.
===

#### Vern

• Neilep Level Member
• Posts: 2072
##### What is the nature of h-bar ?
« Reply #12 on: 29/10/2009 14:04:56 »
Quote from: Mr. Scientist
There is one scientific problem with this notion - and that is that circles havea geometric property. Particles today are considered theoretically as being zero-dimensional and pointlike.
The reason particles are considered so is that no substance smaller than their electromagnetic radius has ever been detected. So it is merely a bad assumption to say that since we can't detect the particles they must be smaller than the detection limits of our devices.

The electromagnetic radius is detectable; the point is not; we can just as easily assume that nothing exists that is less than the electromagnetic radius.

#### Vern

• Neilep Level Member
• Posts: 2072
##### What is the nature of h-bar ?
« Reply #13 on: 29/10/2009 14:15:40 »
Quote from: Socratus
Questions .
1.
What is the border of the minimum amplitude ?
2.
We have formula: E=h*f
h is corpuscular,
f is frequency (wave length , amplitude )
These two qualities unit in one formula.
How to explain the unity of this strange DUALISM ?
======
S.
I don't understand the first question; all frequencies of radiation consist of bundles each of which have a constant amplitude. I guess you could consider it a minimum, but it is always the same for any certain frequency.

h is a constant that when multiplied by a rate of change provides the value of a unit of energy-time. I don't see the DUALISM there.

#### Mr. Scientist

• Neilep Level Member
• Posts: 1451
• Thanked: 2 times
##### What is the nature of h-bar ?
« Reply #14 on: 29/10/2009 18:57:54 »
Quote from: Mr. Scientist
There is one scientific problem with this notion - and that is that circles havea geometric property. Particles today are considered theoretically as being zero-dimensional and pointlike.
The reason particles are considered so is that no substance smaller than their electromagnetic radius has ever been detected. So it is merely a bad assumption to say that since we can't detect the particles they must be smaller than the detection limits of our devices.

The electromagnetic radius is detectable; the point is not; we can just as easily assume that nothing exists that is less than the electromagnetic radius.

Well i certainly can agree. I once raised a paradox:

''How can zero-dimensional particles make up a three dimensional world?''

#### socratus

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 329
##### What is the nature of h-bar ?
« Reply #15 on: 29/10/2009 23:49:08 »
Amplitude.
================= .
I suspect that the Planck action h derives from
two properties of space. These are electric permittivity
and magnetic permeability. These limit the amplitude
of the electric and magnetic components of photons.
The electric and magnetic amplitude limit of empty space is a constant.
If it were variable it would be part of Planck's equation.
We include only the rate of change of the field in the equation,
E = hv. If the amplitude of v were allowed to vary,
that amplitude would be in the equation.
/ Vern /
---
Energy is a 4 dimensional field, h and v are only 2 of those dimensions.
==================== .
What is conclusion ?
a)
The electric and magnetic amplitude
limit of empty space is a constant. /  Vern /
---
I don't understand this. I describe empty space as filled with Dark Matter.
I describe the mechanics and structure of dark matter in my blog.

http://aaronsreality.blogspot.com

b)
If it were variable it would be part of Planck's equation.
/ Vern /
This is not necessarily true. Planck uses 8pi to describe the shape
of an atom/object. I have shown that 8pi or perfect spheres
cannot exist in nature. Again 8pi is a constant.

c)
It is the minimum amplitude of radiation that can affect matter.
(frequency without amplitude is not detectable.)
We don't know what the minimum amplitude of radiation that can
affect a baryon. Anyone who says they do is lying. We don't have
enough information to answer this question.
********

Questions .
1.
What is the border of the minimum amplitude ?
2.
We have formula: E=h*f
h is corpuscular,
f is frequency (wave length , amplitude )
these two qualities unit in one formula.
How to explain the unity of this strange DUALISM ?
---
I will think some more on these questions,

Aaron Guerami
http://aaronsreality.blogspot.com

#### Vern

• Neilep Level Member
• Posts: 2072
##### What is the nature of h-bar ?
« Reply #16 on: 30/10/2009 15:50:13 »
I read your Blog; I couldn't make much sense of it. I couldn't get past the contention that the shape of a sphere doesn't exist, or that the earth is concave. If it is just a matter of degree you're referring to, maybe so; but you need to qualify statements like that.

#### Vern

• Neilep Level Member
• Posts: 2072
##### What is the nature of h-bar ?
« Reply #17 on: 31/10/2009 19:05:20 »
Quote from: Mr. Scientist
Well i certainly can agree. I once raised a paradox:
Quote
''How can zero-dimensional particles make up a three dimensional world?''
Good point !!

#### socratus

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 329
##### What is the nature of h-bar ?
« Reply #18 on: 08/11/2009 05:58:34 »
Quote from: Mr. Scientist
Well i certainly can agree. I once raised a paradox:
Quote
''How can zero-dimensional particles make up a three dimensional world?''
Good point !!
==========================================
Aaron Guerami wrote:

2) Commutitive
The mathematics of gravity is a concept called Zero Point Mass.
This is a mass without a volume.
This is not found in the universe. The main problem here is the reduction
of 3 dimensional densities to 0 dimensional masses. Once a density is
reduces to a mass, the mass cannot be returned to the original shape
of the density. So we cannot cube a zero and get anything but
another zero. This breaks the commutative properties of addition.

Lets look at some of the equations and how gravity fails at
a fundamental level.
F=ma : Force equals mass times acceleration.
We have a zero dimensional mass * a 2 dimensional vector and
that does not equal a 3 dimensional field. So the main axiom
of gravity fails the commutative test.

This alone should disprove gravity.

Aaron Guerami
http://aaronsreality.blogspot.com

======================= .

#### Vern

• Neilep Level Member
• Posts: 2072
##### What is the nature of h-bar ?
« Reply #19 on: 09/11/2009 01:07:58 »
And yet F, m and a are well understood concepts by most high school students. The equation is useful in determining any one of the variables when the other two are known. I don't know that it is intended that the equation should do more than that.

#### socratus

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 329
##### What is the nature of h-bar ?
« Reply #20 on: 09/11/2009 06:38:11 »
And yet F, m and a are well understood concepts
by most high school students.
================================================
Does most high school students understand what ‘rest mass E=Mc^2 ‘ mean ?
Does most high school students understand how
‘ mass imaginary virtual particles’ change into ‘ real mass particles ‘ ?
Does most high school students know what electron is ?
===========================
You know, it would be sufficient to really understand the electron.
/ Albert Einstein./
#
Tell me what an electron is and I'll then tell you everything.
/ Somebody./
#
Every sentence I utter must be understood
not as an affirmation but as a question
/ Niels Bohr./
===

#### aguerami

• First timers
• Posts: 1
##### What is the nature of h-bar ?
« Reply #21 on: 15/11/2009 01:39:53 »
Dear All,

I know the reason Israel Sadovnik AKA Socratus can not answer your questions is because he did not write the Blog or papers that are referenced in his postings. He does make it sound as if he had something to do with the blog.

My name is Aaron Guerami and I write the blog

I am more than willing to answer questions pertaining to Aaron's Reality; the Standard Vibration Model, the Disproof of Gravity, Baryonic Motion, the Information Involved in Baryonic Radiation. You can either post them on the blog itself, which I would prefer, or since I just joined this forum, I will try to have conversations regarding my work sent to my email acct. I just need to figure out the forum.

My papers are published at the General Science Journal. newbielink:http://wbabin.net [nonactive]

I have communicated with Israel Sadovnik before. The General Science Journal has a forum. He participates there often. Although we rarely interact. He seems to like

This is why in the above posts he does not answer your question regarding the impossibility of a perfect circle existing in nature.

I do not think his behavior warrants moderation by this forum since he did reference my blog but not my papers. But his referenced needs to have quotations marks "" around them with the link to the exact place where the quote can be found. This is required by the laws governing the Creative Commons License.

It is interesting that he has never asked me about these topics.

I will be posting a similar notice on the General Science Journal.

Aaron Guerami
West Palm Beach, Fl

I can and will defend my work and ideas across the internet. I will look for these kind of irregularities. I wish I did not need to. I will protect my work!

#### socratus

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 329
##### What is the nature of h-bar ?
« Reply #22 on: 15/11/2009 05:07:47 »
29/10/2009 23:49:08
Aaron Guerami
http://aaronsreality.blogspot.com

08/11/2009 05:58:34
Aaron Guerami
http://aaronsreality.blogspot.com
======================= .

#### socratus

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 329
##### What is the nature of h-bar ?
« Reply #23 on: 15/11/2009 05:19:12 »

#### The Naked Scientists Forum

##### What is the nature of h-bar ?
« Reply #23 on: 15/11/2009 05:19:12 »