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Author Topic: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?  (Read 170915 times)

Offline jccc

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QM atom structure suggests that atoms are like different sized ping pong balls.

Negative electron orbital shell, empty space and center positive nucleus.

3 questions, how electron not stick with nucleus?

Why atoms deep in Planet center not crash under high pressure?

How 2 O atoms form into 1 O2 since the shell of the 2 ping pong balls are all negative charged?

 
 

Offline jccc

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What is space? Anywhere force able to reach is space.

Electrostatic forces has no boundary, therefore space is infinity. Even there is only one charge exist it has boundless reach.

From geometry view, 1,2,3 dimension all infinity.

?
 

Offline jccc

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if there are only two electrons in empty space, they will along a straight line fly away forever.

if 1 e 1 p, no matter how far away, they will along a straight line fly together. if they are solid balls, the atom/universe will be 2 connected balls with opposite force fields on each side.

if the space is filled with positive charged elastic fluid, it will condensed to the electron to form nucleus and proton will be float at atom radius. an anti hydrogen.

see, no matter how many electron or proton, no matter how big is space, no matter how much charge they each carries, if you got all 3, as long as forces exist between them, you can build universe.

 
 

Offline chiralSPO

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An atoms force field does not end at atom radius, but extend to infinity. In whole, an atom or planet maybe electrically neutral, but Every charge within has its own force field beyond distance, those forces overlapped to produce chemical bonding, magnetism and gravity. Ever wonder why is Fe=q1q2/r^2, Fg=m1m2/r^2, and mass proportional to proton numbers within it?


Yes the electrostatic force field of a proton is unbounded, and the electrostatic force of an electron is unbounded. But in a neutral atom those forces effectively cancel out at any mesoscopic or macroscopic distance. Use the equation you provide (Fe=q1q2/r^2) and calculate the net force on a particle of charge +1 if acted on by a proton of charge +1, at a distance of 1 mm and an electron of charge 1 at a distance of 0.99999995 mm. It's a pretty small number. Also since the electron's AVERAGE location is the same as the proton's AVERAGE location, these net AVERAGE force is ZERO.

The inverse square law is the same for electrostatic and gravitational attraction because we live in a 3D world.

You also forgot about the masses of the neutrons and electrons which should be included in the mass of a planet (the Earth has about 2 1021 kg of electrons)
 

Offline jccc

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To transmogrify into a butterfly you must undergo a metamorphosis.

on a more serious note how do electrons survive floating in this negative charged eather

so far so good? thank you for inspiring me putting ideas out.

if atomic structure theory was wrong, all theories about matter could be wrong. what is mass if matter carries no charge? if matter has no charge/force, how you measure it?

maybe proton charge is not +1, the proton and fluid ball combined net charge is +1. we can never see a single proton or neutron, they all surrounded by fluid ball like a solid rock.

maybe the size of proton and neutron are 1800 electron size, when they passing mass spectrometer, the space fluid inside the tube puts resistance on them, the bigger ball curves more. just like shoot two beach balls horizontally, the bigger ball drops faster. ???

mass equal to matter's force field strength.  a gold ball contains more charges therefore heavier than a silver ball. when the ball moving in space, the resistance following speed, the faster you go the heavier you are.

need sleep, later.
« Last Edit: 15/02/2015 07:30:14 by jccc »
 

Offline evan_au

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Quote from: jccc
Why atoms deep in Planet center not crash under high pressure?
That would be because the electrons of adjacent atoms repel each other, at close range (you can get more precise by including quantum effects).

This is because in something of the scale of the Earth, the electromagnetic force is far stronger than the gravitational force.

Take it up a notch, and take a white dwarf 1.5 times mass of the Sun. As it cools, it shrinks, and the force of gravity increases. The electrostatic force cannot hold the atoms apart, and it will collapse into a neutron star. But this effect does not occur for objects the mass of the Earth.
 

Offline jccc

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happy now?  i hope so.

light is atom's gravity wave   

 

Offline chiralSPO

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happy now?  i hope so.

light is atom's gravity wave

That makes no sense whatsoever. Light is an electromagnetic wave. The energy of of an atom's gravitational field is miniscule compared to the energy carried by photons of light emitted by atoms.
 

Offline PmbPhy

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happy now?  i hope so.

light is atom's gravity wave

That makes no sense whatsoever.
Of course. Consider the source.
 

Offline jccc

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an atom has mass m, vibrates at f times per second, it will seed mfc^2/t energy/force out as gravity wave. the nature of the force wave is electrostatic force.

light is not wave nor particle, light is gravitational pause produced by exited atoms.

Science has never been absolute, what makes you think today's science is all correct? In fact, science is so fucked up. Present theories of atomic structure, gravity and light are all wrong.

 
 

Offline jeffreyH

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an atom has mass m, vibrates at f times per second, it will seed mfc^2/t energy/force out as gravity wave. the nature of the force wave is electrostatic force.

light is not wave nor particle, light is gravitational pause produced by exited atoms.

Science has never been absolute, what makes you think today's science is all correct? In fact, science is so f***ed up. Present theories of atomic structure, gravity and light are all wrong.

What you are trying to say here with this mfc^2/t is that energy multiplied by the frequency of phonon vibrations over time causes gravity. In the case where the phonon vibrations are not regular your energy source will be pulsating and some of this energy is released as gravity. The problems are 1) your mass would be gone very quickly and 2) you would need to prove that all phonon vibrations are irregular. I know energy is a difficult concept but I have never heard of anyone using phonons in this way. What may be possible is that the vibrational energy causes ripples (waves) in the gravitational field without loss of energy. The problem with this is tying it to a force that is all attractive. I have no idea where you would even start on that one so good luck I await your results. I may be waiting an awfully long time.
 

Offline jccc

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we need to start from the light source. if atoms are like qm suggested, 99% empty space, why is water/matter not compressible? why there is no discharge between proton and electron? obviously the empty space is not empty.

 

Offline PmbPhy

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Quote from: jccc
we need to start from the light source. if atoms are like qm suggested, 99% empty space, why is water/matter not compressible?
It is compressible. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Properties_of_water#Compressibility
 

Offline jccc

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Quote from: jccc
we need to start from the light source. if atoms are like qm suggested, 99% empty space, why is water/matter not compressible?
It is compressible. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Properties_of_water#Compressibility
water's compressibility is about 10 ^-10, sounds like 99% empty space to you?

how about the discharge? is the empty space such a good insulator?
 

Offline PmbPhy

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Quote from: jccc
water's compressibility is about 10 ^-10, sounds like 99% empty space to you?

how about the discharge? is the empty space such a good insulator?
I answered your question about the compressibility of water, not about how much empty space there is. They are not directly related. And the amount of space taken up can be thought of in two ways; one in which one only considers the volume of the particles and one in which one considers the atom as a whole, i.e. the space in which the electron cloud exists. In the first case the volume of the particles is a great deal less than 1%.
 

Offline jccc

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Quote from: jccc
we need to start from the light source. if atoms are like qm suggested, 99% empty space, why is water/matter not compressible?
It is compressible. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Properties_of_water#Compressibility
water's compressibility is about 10 ^-10, sounds like 99% empty space to you?

how about the discharge? is the empty space such a good insulator?
what's your answer?
 

Offline PmbPhy

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Quote from: jccc
what's your answer?
I don't have an answer. Who ever said I know everything!
 

Offline jccc

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thank you Pete!

all my respect to you.

 

Offline PmbPhy

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thank you Pete!

all my respect to you.
You're welcome.  [^]
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: Re: The Pseudosciences
« Reply #269 on: 28/02/2015 15:27:14 »
We do know all those things. You just don't understand the mathematics.

It's not unusual to find incomprehension masquerading as superior knowledge - that is, after all, the basis of many religions.
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Re: The Pseudosciences
« Reply #270 on: 28/02/2015 15:30:23 »
We do know all those things. You just don't understand the mathematics.

It's not unusual to find incomprehension masquerading as superior knowledge - that is, after all, the basis of many religions.

what thing do you know? why water is not compressible if there is 99% empty space in atoms?
 

Offline PmbPhy

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Re: Re: The Pseudosciences
« Reply #271 on: 28/02/2015 15:51:40 »
Quote from: jccc
you don't even understand how atoms are formed, .you don't know why is electron not stick to proton, you don't know why water is not compressible, you don;t know why there is no discharge in atoms,
When I said that I don't know what "how about the discharge? is the empty space such a good insulator?" means, no physicists has all that kind of data in their minds. When we need to know something we either calculate it or look it up. Which ever is the most convenient.

« Last Edit: 01/03/2015 11:15:06 by evan_au »
 

Offline jccc

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a matter/mass/charge has force/gravitational field, if the matter moves, the field follows. if the matter vibrates, the field follows.

if the sun has a big ejection/quake, we should be able to detect it 500 seconds later. we might even have a earthquake.

atoms, each has mass, when atoms exited, their fields exited, within that field, you feel light.
 

Offline David Cooper

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Re: Re: The Pseudosciences
« Reply #273 on: 28/02/2015 19:12:56 »
what thing do you know? why water is not compressible if there is 99% empty space in atoms?

Water is compressible - it just takes an extremely high force to compress it to a significant degree.
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Re: The Pseudosciences
« Reply #274 on: 28/02/2015 19:16:49 »
what thing do you know? why water is not compressible if there is 99% empty space in atoms?

Water is compressible - it just takes an extremely high force to compress it to a significant degree.

right, 10^-10. why? if it is 99% empty. what force canceled pressure?
 

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Re: Re: The Pseudosciences
« Reply #274 on: 28/02/2015 19:16:49 »

 

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