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Offline Vern

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Why abandon cause and effect?
« on: 31/10/2009 15:18:46 »
Most things in nature are connected by a sequence of events that we recognize as cause and effect. For at least a century now, we have abandoned that concept in the physical sciences. We seem to have abandoned the concept of cause and effect so that we can have a wide latitude in our guesses about nature. Since we are not constrained by the need for cause and effect our guesses can be as weird as we like. Maybe it is time to question this abandonment of cause and effect.

Lets review some of the basic things we know about nature and see if we might assign causes for the effects that we notice. When we do this we might get a better insight into how nature works. We might even discover that great principle that John Wheeler talked about. He said, "Some principle uniquely right and uniquely simple must, when one knows it, be also so obvious that it is clear that the universe is built, and must be built, in such and such a way and that it could not possibly be otherwise."

First lets think about Planck's Constant and how come the quantum.
« Last Edit: 31/10/2009 15:21:17 by Vern »


 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #1 on: 31/10/2009 15:29:34 »
Planck's Constant:
 Since the quantum is so pervasive in nature we might start by considering how come the quantum. We know it all started with Max Planck's observation that the amount of energy-time of each photon is a constant value. Consider that a photon is comprised only of electric and magnetic change. The total amount of this change over time is a constant. The electric and magnetic amplitude reached by the change is also a constant. We know this because amplitude is not needed to solve the equation. If the electric and magnetic amplitude reached by a photon could vary, that variation would be a factor in the energy-time of a photon. It is not a factor. So it is not needed in the equation that describes Planck's constant. E = hv contains only Planck's constant and the rate of change of the electric and magnetic fields that comprise a photon.

 Now we have two constants. One, Planck's constant, is energy-time. The other, unnamed, is peak electric and magnetic amplitude; these are physical properties of space. Physical properties can be real causes. These unnamed physical properties of space, then, are the cause of Planck's constant. Planck's constant is the effect; the cause is the physical properties of space determined by the electric permittivity and the magnetic permeability of space. This is very important. We will show that these properties of space are also the cause of gravity.

 So the cause of Planck's constant is a property of empty space that only allows a certain maximum amplitude of electric and magnetic force. We know from observation that all photons reach this maximum amplitude of potential force. We say potential because a photon can do no work and remain a photon.
 

Offline Vern

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Why abandon cause and effect?
« Reply #2 on: 31/10/2009 15:33:23 »
Quantum Phenomena:
How come the quantum then is because empty space has limits on the amount of electric and magnetic amplitude it can support. These limits cause Planck's constant. These limits therefore cause the quantum nature of the universe. We have not invented anything new for this realization. We just noticed the obvious cause for a well known effect. But we only noticed it because we looked for a cause for the quantum effect.

So far as anyone knows, these limits only apply to photons. There is no reason we know about that other things would be quantized. So, Planck length, Planck time, etc, are meaningless even though we may assign a value to them. We can not apply this obvious cause for the quantum nature of the universe to other unrelated effects. So those other things must remain undetermined, and maybe nonexistent.

So the cause of all quantum phenomena is the same properties of empty space that cause Planck's constant. These properties of empty space force all photons to propagate with a fixed electric and magnetic amplitude.
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #3 on: 31/10/2009 15:34:59 »
Uncertainty:
Now we get to another well known effect, the uncertainty phenomena. There seems to be a built-in uncertainty governing nature. This uncertainty does not permit us to know both the momentum of an object and its position simultaneously. We can know either with great accuracy, but the better we know one the less we know the other. We can trace the cause of this uncertainty back to our inability to predict exactly where a photon or an electron will hit a target.

We know a photon is comprised of electric and magnetic change, and nothing else. Electric and magnetic change has the ability to induce change in other objects in their path. The induced change is also a change, which itself can induce change; so there is a back force. This back force can change the path of a photon that is interacting to induce change. The dynamics of this causes photons to affect a target at a slightly off-center location relative to a photon's path. An incoming photon does a little dance with electrons in the target and dynamically affects those that resonate with it. We can not know the dynamics of all the atoms near a photon's impact point. So we must be uncertain about the point's exact location. This off-center impact is the cause of uncertainty phenomena.

 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #4 on: 31/10/2009 15:37:26 »
Relativity phenomena:
Relativity phenomena is the natural result of the construct of matter. We know that most of matter is composed of constituents that must always move at the invariant speed of light. Because of this, movement must distort matter. Even with QM theory, that construct produces relativity phenomena in flat space time. However, to get the arithmetic to correctly predict observations, all of matter must be involved. The arithmetic does not work if there is something of matter that does not move at light speed at its most elemental level. But it only works in flat space-time. Relativity phenomena develops naturally only in flat space-time. It needs a special inertial frame that is at rest in space. The Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation occupies that special inertial frame.

The shape and the time experience of matter must distort in order to move. The shape distorts by contracting in the direction of movement. This is because the constituent particles must move at the speed of light relative to the fixed frame. They must bunch up to stay together. The time experience of matter must slow when matter moves because photons that comprise atomic components must travel a greater distance to complete the patterns they occupy within the matter. The repetition rate of atomic patterns is the arbiter of time. So the time experience of matter in motion must slow.

It is no coincidence that our measurements of the speed of light are exactly the same in any inertial frame. That is a consequence of the construct of matter. It can not be otherwise when we consider that matter is itself made of light. It is a simple consequence of the arithmetic. The Lorentz transforms describe how matter must distort based upon its construct. So we know that relativity phenomena is real. The cause of relativity phenomena is that the most elemental constituents of all physical reality must always move at the invariant speed of light.

Gravity: Give me a couple of minutes to work on this. :)
« Last Edit: 31/10/2009 21:19:35 by Vern »
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #5 on: 31/10/2009 15:40:54 »
Gravity:
The most elemental thing we know that both responds to gravity and produces gravity is the photon. All massive objects consist mostly of photons, even in QM theory. So maybe it is the photons that provide all gravitational phenomena. This must be so for any photon-only theory because that is all there is to any physical reality. So lets examine the make up of a photon and look for a gravity-responsive and gravity-creating mechanism.

A photon consists of two points of electric and magnetic saturation. Surrounding the points are fields that extend spatially outward. The fields diminish in amplitude as the square of distance. At a very short distance away from the photon's central path, the fields are too weak to interact with matter. So the fields are invisible to matter and matter is invisible to the fields. The fields are free to permeate through matter just as if the matter was not there.

These diminished photon fields permeate the universe. A photon moving through the fields senses the minute electric and magnetic amplitude of the fields. The amplitude of the diminished fields contribute toward the constant amplitude of the photon. The central points of photons reach their constant amplitude with the help of the diminished fields. They thus reach their constant amplitude at an offset toward increasing field strength of the diminished fields. The result of this is that the path of the photon is slightly bent toward the direction of increasing field strength of the diminished fields.
« Last Edit: 02/11/2009 12:36:56 by Vern »
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #6 on: 31/10/2009 15:42:49 »
Matter:
We know that a photon trapped in a mirrored box contributes to the overall mass of the box-photon system. So we can know with considerable certainty that a photon trapped in a local area by any means will appear as mass. We know also that a photon is comprised of fields of changing electric and magnetic amplitude. The changing fields are symmetrical with a positive half cycle and a negative half cycle that exactly balance. Because the fields balance, a photon appears neutral. But this can only be true when a photon moves in a straight line.

When the path of a photon is bent the fields can not be symmetrical. The area outside the bend is greater than the area inside the bend. The electric and magnetic fields that drive the photon through space can not be symmetrical in the bend. This asymmetry presents itself as electric charge. This electric charge has an additional action that bends the path of a photon more. The amount of the additional bending of the path is equal to the original bending. The result is a bend radius of twice the amount. So starlight paths bent by the sun's gravity are bent twice as much as the sun's gravity alone can account for.

There is a direct relationship between the bend radius of the photon's path and the amplitude of the residual electric charge. The tighter the bend, the greater the residual electric charge. This electric charge acts as positive feedback that tightens the bend radius of a photon's path. In addition to this positive feedback, there is another force that can act to help trap a photon in a local pattern.

Resonance is a very powerful force in electromagnetic phenomena. A photon can resonate with itself when a complete loop forms in one wavelength. Then we have two forces at work to trap the photon in the pattern. We have the positive feedback of the electric charge and the photon's own self resonance. At just the right frequency, a stable electron or positron may be formed.

So the cause of matter is positive feedback and photon self resonance. The feedback comes from the bent path. The self resonance happens when a complete loop forms in one wavelength.


« Last Edit: 02/11/2009 12:34:35 by Vern »
 

Offline Vern

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Why abandon cause and effect?
« Reply #7 on: 31/10/2009 17:25:21 »
Nuclear Dynamics:
Consider that a proton is comprised of three photon shells in accordance with the Square-Of-The-Shells rule below. Shell 2 is positively charged on the outside and negatively charged on the inside. In accordance with the rule, the charge of the electron is taken as unity. The electric charge amplitude of the proton's shells follow the rule. The charge amplitude on a neutron's outer shell is then about 2.54992 times the value of the electrons charge amplitude. Even though the charge amplitude at the surface is greater than the electric charge amplitude at an electron's surface, the amplitude is exactly the same as that of an electron when sensed from any distance greater than an electron's radius. This is because the sensed amplitude diminishes with the square of distance; the charge at the shell surface increases as the square of distance. So the charge amplitude at the surface of shell 3 is about 42.27723 as great as that of an electron. Again, any sense of this amplitude at any distance greater than an electrons radius will show its value as exactly equal to that of an electron.

So we have four forces in play when two protons merge. The value of the forces add up to the value of the strong nuclear interaction taken in terms of electron charges. Protons may merge when excited enough for the outer shells 2 to push past each other. The inner two proton shells, shell 3 and shell 4 are then trapped inside of shells 2.

The dynamics of this entrapment are obvious, and fit observations exactly. When forcing a trapped proton out of its trap, the forces at first increase. Opposite charges repel as the two shells 3 approach closer to the entrapping shells 2. The forces will also increase when the two protons are compressed, again, exactly matching observations.

So, the obvious cause of atomic nuclear dynamics is the electric charges on shells 2 and shells 3 of the proton.


« Last Edit: 01/11/2009 15:09:05 by Vern »
 

Offline litespeed

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« Reply #8 on: 31/10/2009 22:17:27 »
Vern:

I was unclear that photons bouncing back and forth can lose energy (probably wave length) and and contribute to increasing mass withing the closed system. That is a nice piece of mince-meat pie to digest.

However, although QM is spectacularly successful at predicting statistical outcomes, they are an entire failure as to what causes these out comes. For this reason I am very interested in the various Plank units.  I have even seen the big bang reduced to Plank time 0, Plank 1, etc.

My observation is there was no singularity at Plank time zero. Plank time zero was null. But Plank Time One, however, shows the universe in birth.  I have even read that universal expansion (inflation) over the first few plank time units, were relatively much larger then the entire universal expansion since that time.

Further, the failure of QM to come up with much in the way of cause and effect leads me to consider it a sort of shadow Kabuki Theater.  The Wizard behind the Great Oz curtain. OK. If an electron or other subatomic paricle behave in a predictable but statistical significan way, disapears, appears, jumps to another place? Well Duh, are there not other dimensions or physics activity that cause these things to happen but our outside our normal observational capacities?

This is where I really really like to get metphisical.  For many people in physics, String Theory is the new Flat Earh brigade according to a whole lot of knowledgeable individuals. Recent theories on String Theory (as epemeral as candy cotton) seen to have alighted one either 9 or 11 dimensions.

However, I am old enough to recongnize cults when I see one. At this very moment the superstious cutl of Global Warming is comming appart at the seams like a water logged hard ball.  My suggestion to science. Get to work on these  many string theory type hypostheses, and leave GW to the Freshman and Sophmores who have not  much of a future.
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #9 on: 31/10/2009 22:52:00 »
Quote from: litespeed
I was unclear that photons bouncing back and forth can lose energy (probably wave length) and and contribute to increasing mass withing the closed system. That is a nice piece of mince-meat pie to digest.
The photons need not lose energy. When contained in a local area photons are mass. Photon's don't have mass; photons are mass. Mass is nothing more than electromagnetic change.

But we can only consider a photon as mass when it is trapped in a local area. Our system of consideration must contain the photon. As Lightarrow likes to point out, directional change must happen so that momentum can cancel.
« Last Edit: 01/11/2009 15:11:11 by Vern »
 

Ethos

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« Reply #10 on: 31/10/2009 23:02:36 »

The electric and magnetic fields that drive the photon through space can not be symmetrical in the bend. This asymmetry presents itself as electric charge. This electric charge has an additional action that bends the path of a photon more. The amount of the additional bending of the path is equal to the original bending. The result is a bend radius of twice the amount.

This is quite interesting Vern. If I may, I'd like to suggest that charge may be akin to the gyroscopic effect. Given that, the rotational momentum of a gyroscope resists a change in it's attitude, can one surmise that charge is the effect that this change adds to the mix? If this is true, then charge is equivalent to this change in axial momentum.
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #11 on: 31/10/2009 23:59:58 »
I'm not sure how charge is related to axial momentum. There is room for discovery there. My suspicion is that charge develops from the asymmetry of the electric and magnetic fields resulting from the bent path of a photon. We know the fields can not be symmetric in the bend. And we know that any asymmetry must show up as a residual charge.

Any equation we can develop that will neutralize the charges when the fields are symmetrical will fail when the fields are not symmetrical.   
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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« Reply #12 on: 01/11/2009 14:43:14 »
Most things in nature are connected by a sequence of events that we recognize as cause and effect. For at least a century now, we have abandoned that concept in the physical sciences. We seem to have abandoned the concept of cause and effect so that we can have a wide latitude in our guesses about nature. Since we are not constrained by the need for cause and effect our guesses can be as weird as we like. Maybe it is time to question this abandonment of cause and effect.

Lets review some of the basic things we know about nature and see if we might assign causes for the effects that we notice. When we do this we might get a better insight into how nature works. We might even discover that great principle that John Wheeler talked about. He said, "Some principle uniquely right and uniquely simple must, when one knows it, be also so obvious that it is clear that the universe is built, and must be built, in such and such a way and that it could not possibly be otherwise."

First lets think about Planck's Constant and how come the quantum.

Hi vern.

You said ''abandoned the concept of cause and effect so that we can have a wide latitude in our guesses about nature''

And reading on its seems that you believe that cause and effect is just something we can have or we don't by choice, but in quantum mechanics, down to the behaviour of tiny particles, cause and effect naturally breaks down in the presence of exotic objects, such as virtual particles, even hypothetical tachyons. There are many parameters of physics which suggest there needs to be a non-causal structure to many incidents within quantum theory such as entanglement. I'm afraid quantum theory would not work if it did not allow for non-causal-related events.
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #13 on: 01/11/2009 14:46:24 »
That is my point. Is it cause and effect that breaks down or is it the theory that breaks down because it refutes cause and effect? Virtual particles may just be a crutch. Without them, Quantum Theory would predict relativity phenomena in flat space-time.

Edit: Even in quantum theory, gluons move at the invariant speed of light. So the stuff that gluons hold together would be distorted by movement. However, the arithmetic only works to correctly predict observations if all the constituents of matter move at the speed of light.

Cause and effect can survive quite well without Quantum theory. However, Quantum theory can not survive if we demand that it adhere to the reality of cause and effect. So you are correct; quantum theory would not work.
« Last Edit: 01/11/2009 15:13:18 by Vern »
 

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« Reply #14 on: 01/11/2009 16:16:06 »
Cause and effect can survive quite well without Quantum theory. However, Quantum theory can not survive if we demand that it adhere to the reality of cause and effect. So you are correct; quantum theory would not work.
I often suspect that when science has no answer for a particular reaction, they just throw up their hands and submit to the proposition that it just happened without a cause. I don't buy this lazy approach to understanding reality. If and when we finally understand Quantum intersactions properly, I'm convinced we will also find there are causes behind every action. Even though the cause may be hidden deep within the complexity and so faint that we have yet to detect it with our present technology, I am convinced that a cause rests at the heart of every action.
« Last Edit: 02/11/2009 23:20:37 by Ethos »
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #15 on: 01/11/2009 16:55:34 »
I agree that cause and effect is very important. To me it is the best test of reality. Quantum theory abandons it because quantum theory doesn't work when we insist upon cause and effect. It may not be coincidence that every instance where quantum theory predicts non-causal events, there is no experimental evidence that supports it.

Edit: In fact; I predict that anyone who demands that cause and effect represent reality, then start with relativity phenomena, will conclude just as Lorentz and Poincare did. They will conclude that the final irreducible constituent of all physical reality is the electromagnetic field. Relativity phenomena alone produces astronomical probability odds in favour. (Einstein writes that it was Maxwell that introduced the bolded idea. But we know that all physicists of the early 20th century considered the notion. No one has ever offered any evidence that it does not represent reality.)
« Last Edit: 01/11/2009 17:03:18 by Vern »
 

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« Reply #16 on: 03/11/2009 12:47:14 »
Hi Vern,

The more I read about your photon-only theory, the more you have me convinced. But since I'm a physics layman, you'll have to clarify some things for me in the process of me fully accepting your theories :)

I understand how matter comes to exist in your theory, and it requires bent photon paths that bend more through positive feedback until they reach a circular path if their frequency is just right etc.

But is there a 'force' that can unbend paths? Or is a photon with a bent path determined to never 'fly' straight anymore?
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #17 on: 03/11/2009 13:57:59 »
The feedback force that helps keep a photon's path bent is only half the amount that would be required to sustain the bent path. So the normal tendency of any photon experiencing a change in its trajectory is to immediately straighten its path and continue in a straight line. We see this in particle accelerators. The zoo of unstable particles that immediately decay to energy indicates this.

If we put any faith at all in probability theory, we have to conclude that it is almost certain that our universe is a photon-only universe. However, my speculations about the details are just speculations. I hope they are consistent. But I may not have it exactly right. There is plenty room for alternative ideas.

As for unbending the paths; as I stated, the normal tendency is to unbend; however, when trapped in a stable pattern as in an electron, an equal force is needed to unwind it. A positron will do it. When in close proximity an electron and a positron both become radiation again.
« Last Edit: 03/11/2009 14:20:19 by Vern »
 

Offline Nizzle

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« Reply #18 on: 03/11/2009 14:34:42 »
So there is a critical degree of bending required for a photon to enter to positive feedback loop?

And once a photon passes this critical degree, it will either close it's path to a circular wave and become a particle, if the frequency is right, or do what exactly if the frequency is not ok??? Fly straight again and continue to exist as a photon?

The problem I'm having here is understanding in what happens to the photon when it's bent enough to enter the positive feedback phase, but does not have the right frequency to become matter...

PS: interesting would be to predict the frequency required and then test it somehow
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #19 on: 03/11/2009 15:34:42 »
So there is a critical degree of bending required for a photon to enter to positive feedback loop?
Yes; bending always produces the force but only one exact frequency is stable. The square-of-the-shells rule above has the numbers. Here's the source code for the calculator.

Quote
And once a photon passes this critical degree, it will either close it's path to a circular wave and become a particle, if the frequency is right, or do what exactly if the frequency is not ok??? Fly straight again and continue to exist as a photon?
When it closes its path to complete a stable pattern (or even a semi-stable pattern) it is observed as a particle. If the frequency is not right, it immediately straightens its path and is radiation again.

Quote
The problem I'm having here is understanding in what happens to the photon when it's bent enough to enter the positive feedback phase, but does not have the right frequency to become matter...
The positive feedback phase is always there and is proportional to the bend radius. If the frequency is too high it can still form a particle with some radiation left over; the left-over radiation continues on as straight line radiation.

Quote
PS: interesting would be to predict the frequency required and then test it somehow
The square of the shells rule does predict the frequency; it is the wave length of radiation equivalent to the mass of an electron. The rule also predicts the mass and the charge amplitude of hadron components. (protons and neutrons.)

Particle accelerator experiments do confirm this; however, we can't exclude competing theories. They are also confirmed by the experiments. Quantum theory is so pervasive that physicists are very reluctant to consider anything else.

Edit: However, the photon-only hypothesis explains the zoo of unstable particles that Quantum theorists puzzle over.  ;D
« Last Edit: 03/11/2009 16:00:21 by Vern »
 

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« Reply #20 on: 03/11/2009 17:27:37 »
Hi Vern,

The more I read about your photon-only theory, the more you have me convinced.


I too have become a believer Vern.

I mentioned the following idea before but I will offer it again hoping that it may spark some more thought on the subject;

I also believe that the orbital configuration of the photon is responsible for the creation of matter as it is currently defined. However, I have always found it difficult to understand this mysterious thing called charge. I have nothing but speculation to offer for the following assumption but I now find it compelling to understand charge as the radial momentum of this orbital configuration. This thought has only come to me as a result of the Photon Only theory presented by Vern and I have him to thank for it.


Because charge is a force locally contained within a particle, I believe it is a result of the radial momentum induced by the photon in this orbital path.

Following is a question that someone will have to help me with.

Is it also possible that the photon's path, when bent from it's usual straight line path, also induces a charge? If so, then the bending of this path is responsible for the charge and has more to do with the character of space itself and less to do with the energy or matter involved in the process.
« Last Edit: 03/11/2009 17:34:23 by Ethos »
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #21 on: 03/11/2009 18:01:08 »
Quote from: Ethos
Is it also possible that the photon's path, when bent from it's usual straight line path, also induces a charge? If so, then the bending of this path is responsible for the charge and has more to do with the character of space itself and less to do with the energy or matter involved in the process.
Yes; this is my contention. The experimental evidence of this is starlight bent in a gravitational field. It bends twice as much as gravity can account for. I suspect it is the charge induced by the bend that does it.

There may be more direct experimental evidence. Photons trapped in high Q cavities behave like electrons. They exhibit electrical charge and inertia. A physicist at UMBC mentioned this in a presentation there. I almost fell out of my seat. But when the annals were published, there was no mention of charge or inertia.

Fundamental Problems in Quantum Theory: A conference held in honor of John A Wheeler. Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences; April 7th 1995.
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #22 on: 04/11/2009 17:04:20 »
Yes, Mr. Damon; did you knock?? If you accidentally submitted the post you can click the modify link at the upper right and add to your post. :)

Edit: Oops; I guess he deleted the post.
« Last Edit: 04/11/2009 20:33:35 by Vern »
 

Return of Matt Damon

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« Reply #23 on: 05/11/2009 21:41:11 »
(No, the words M**t D***n are banned from this forum.

Thanks,)

M**t D***n
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #24 on: 06/11/2009 01:23:10 »
We await the great influx of wisdom that you may insert into this discussion.  ;D
 

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