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Author Topic: Are ideas about climate change driven by national politics rather than science?  (Read 12794 times)

Offline litespeed

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Pepper

Your concerns are legitimate. However, it is clear neither one of us has any influence with the Chinese Coal Power jugernaut.  One party states: I worked in Romania back in the 1980's, and I can tell you it was a Dante's Inferno. In Bucharest I slept with a wet washcloth over my face.

On the weekend I rented a car to see Dracula's Castle.  The polution was so bad we could not see more then about 100 meters from the car on either side. It went on so long I began to consider the immediate health concerns and the possible need to retreat for simple survival. At about that time we broke out into a higher elevation.  Down below was a thick soup of poison you could have stirred with a spoon. Until it disolved.

Right out of The Lord Of The Rings. It chills me to this very day.

 

Offline Geezer

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No need to run the risk of being turned into a vampire. Just go to Salt Lake City in the middle of winter and you'll see something similar.
 

Offline peppercorn

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Down below was a thick soup of poison you could have stirred with a spoon. Until it disolved.

Sounds f'ing awful!
In some ways it's a shame CO2 isn't a nasty green colour or something!
 

Offline frethack

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Sounds f'ing awful!
In some ways it's a shame CO2 isn't a nasty green colour or something!

I think the foliage might disagree with you on that.  ;D
 

Offline Geezer

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Sounds f'ing awful!
In some ways it's a shame CO2 isn't a nasty green colour or something!

I think the foliage might disagree with you on that.  ;D
Apparently, trees (and all plants?) continually live right on the edge of suffocation due to insufficient CO2. I came across that recently (can't remember where) and I was quite surprised. Is it true?
 

Offline frethack

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Apparently, trees (and all plants?) continually live right on the edge of suffocation due to insufficient CO2. I came across that recently (can't remember where) and I was quite surprised. Is it true?

I couldnt tell you on that one.  I do know that plants use water more efficiently with higher levels of CO2, but that is all.
 

Offline Geezer

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Apparently, trees (and all plants?) continually live right on the edge of suffocation due to insufficient CO2. I came across that recently (can't remember where) and I was quite surprised. Is it true?

I couldnt tell you on that one.  I do know that plants use water more efficiently with higher levels of CO2, but that is all.
I'll start another thread!
 

Offline litespeed

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Geezer - You wrote, regarding polution in Rumania: "No need to run the risk of being turned into a vampire. Just go to Salt Lake City in the middle of winter and you'll see something similar."

Sorry Geeze, but you have NO idea what that Rumanian polution was like. Embassy staff would change their shirts at least once a day. Like I said, I placed a wet washcloth on my face at night to breath through.  The polution in the country side was WAY worse, like serious FOG. Driving through it I actually became concerned for our IMMEDIATE health.

It was scary bad.  I am not kidding: visibility might have been reduced to a couple of hundred yards....
 

Offline Geezer

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I do not doubt your observations. My only point is that, because of inversion, the conditions in Salt Lake City in the winter can be really bad too. Much worse than Los Angeles as I recall.

If you are up on the mountains and look down, you can see that SLC is immeresed in an evil yellow/brown soup.

BTW, I actually remember the smog that was common in the UK when everybody burned coal fires. You could hardly see the other side of the street. It killed a lot of people.
« Last Edit: 19/11/2009 19:48:24 by Geezer »
 

Offline litespeed

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Geezer,

Are you describing the proverbial Pea Soup!
 

Offline Geezer

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More apocryphal than proverbial.
 

Offline litespeed

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Geezer,

We burned coal when I was a kid back in the Black and White 1950's. A ton or so of bituminous lump, plus split oak from the wooded area of the farm. To this very day my sister and brother-in-law primarily heat with wood, and even sell some to local customers.

The coal was really noxious, even in the country.  However, almost everyone switched to fuel oil in the 1970's.  As a result, the retail demand for coal dried up and has not been available since. Side Note: Back then anthracite coal was also available. It required special furnaces, I believe, because it burned hotter.  In addition, it did not leave much ash, just a residual 'clinker' to be plucked out from time to time.

My grandmother had a 'stoker' machine that automatically fed walnut sized pieces of anthracite into the furnace from a bin we would fill a couple of times a week. Quite exotic!
 

Offline Geezer

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Don't talk to me about anthracite!

We had a Rayburn oven/cooker with a back boiler to heat the hot water. It ran on "smokeless" anthracite, which was kept in a cellar under the house, but only accessible from the outside. Guess who had to haul the freekin' stuff up from the cellar in all weathers?
 

Offline litespeed

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Geezer

This thread was listed as random post of the day. I really get a kick out our discussions of coal home heating! You mentioned "Guess who had to haul the freekin' [antracite] stuff up from the cellar in all weathers [from outside]?

Ah, the good old days! Our bituminous was dumped right down into the basement right next to the furnace itself. I would stand there with a water hose to damp down the dust, then shovel the stuff back against the wall where it might not catch fire.

Do you remember the Monty Python skit where two guys start talking together about how hard each of them had it back in the old days? I think they started out with the old standard 'I had to walk five miles in the snow to school.' Finally the other guy said they were so poor they had to move into the nearby lake and swim 1/2 mile to school much of the time.

Several of my relatives had out-houses, which weren't so bad EXCEPT in the Winter. In fact, thats what we routinely used during 'The War'. I won't mention which one. The human condition has improves so much in the last century it boggles the mind.  My own great grandmother moved West in a wagon in the 1870's, but lived long enough to fly back in a Boeing 707.

I suppose youthful ignorance becomes more of an issue when they don't even know anyone who had relatives die of cholera. As the family historian I have photographs of three little graves from the middle 1800's where my great great great great grandparents buried three young children from the disease all in one year.

As for natural catastrophies? I have first hand accounts of the New Madrid earthquake series of 1812, 1813. My relative was working a barge of barreled flour down the Ohio then Mississipi(?) when one of them hit. It drove the barge miles back up one or another tributary and nearly killed him when a barrel shifted. He is famous for having walked back to Ohio.

And I worry about whether my cold hardy pansies will bloom well this January in N. Georgia.



 

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