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Author Topic: ?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?  (Read 36260 times)

Offline grizelda

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #100 on: 25/12/2009 22:43:13 »
When Jesus said man doesn't live by bread alone... I was thinking maybe Satan had turned all the bread to stones and he was just offering Christ the opportunity to change them back, sort of a professional courtesy, one magician to another. I know that sounds unlikely, but bear with me. Science at best considers all mythologies to be allegories, if they have any meaning at all. The allegory-makers would have included some device in the allegories to dissuade people from taking them literally. Thus, Satan would be the cautionary figure who's inclusion is meant to warn you away from that mistake. Satan then, is the character who changes words into icons, bread into stones. And Jesus, of course rejects this, and so should you. Nothing personal, just that science is not subject to belief.
 

Offline WunderingTruth

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #101 on: 26/12/2009 06:30:52 »
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Nothing personal, just that science is not subject to belief.
If you want to believe all the energy in the universe came from a speck smaller than an atom for no reason, your ancestors were monkeys, and the complexity of creation and life had no design or reason, it is. 

http://dissidentphilosophy.lifediscussion.net/philosophy-f1/a-conversation-cocerning-light-t932-90.htm [nofollow]
 

Offline grizelda

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #102 on: 26/12/2009 08:10:56 »
If you want to believe that energy, atoms and life are icons that exist because of magic then you are subject to belief. If you want reasons you will have to look to science.
 

Offline WunderingTruth

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #103 on: 26/12/2009 09:38:56 »

Magic?
 

Offline BenV

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #104 on: 26/12/2009 12:19:38 »
The evidence for human evolution is overwhelming, I do hope that you aren't planning on debating that in this thread too.
 

Offline grizelda

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #105 on: 27/12/2009 01:30:04 »
Artists create icons to "stand for" the objects, actions or emotions they wish to tell a story about. Icons are symbols, variable names, or as the novelists call them, "objective correlatives". If the story is meant to describe an actual event of some note then it is called an allegory. Only the things the icons stand for are relevant to the meaning of the allegory. The icons themselves are selected only for some quality they have which suggests the entity they represent. Ascribing some meaning to the actual icons or the relationships between them is meaningless, it is magic.
 Science uses words in their exact meaning, which is however science has defined them, no more and no less. Of course, science uses symbols, usually in math to represent long strings of addition, but it is unlikely anyone would take them literally, unless they were Greek.
 

Offline WunderingTruth

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #106 on: 30/12/2009 03:09:49 »
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The evidence for human evolution is overwhelming,
Yes, evolution from primitive man, but there is no overwhelming evidence linking primitive man to apes, which is a whole different species.

This is a post that I had posted on another forum, thought I'd share it with you.

These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the heavens and the earth.

This seems to imply that there were generations of creativity involved in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and he sums it all up as, in the day that he created the heavens and the earth.

I believe God, in reference to the days involved during his creation of the heavens and the earth, is bracketing the sequence of events involved during his creation, not the time elapsed during the sequence of events. A twenty four hour earth day, according to the Jewish calendar, goes from evening to evening. God used the phrase, "and the evening and the morning", to denote the days of creation. I believe he used this phrase in reference to, evening, ( the end of something ), morning, ( the beginning of something else ). The twenty four hour earth day is measured by the rotation of the earth, in relationship to the son, without the sun you could not distinguish between evening and morning. The sun and moon was not set in place until the fourth day.
 
God, who is infinite in dimensions, who dwells in an infinite eternal state of being as the I AM, created something new, something the angels had never seen before. God created a four dimensional reality in which there are physical laws, and boundaries, including the fourth dimension, the illusion of time. The illusion of time exist because of the movement of light energies throughout the darkness, and the changes, and movements of the elements within the physical laws.

God created in such a way, that creation actually created itself, within, ( for lack of a better word ), God's imagination. He spoke forth into the darkness of time, and the created energies of light did the rest.

God only interferes in the natural evolutionary events of creation, to direct events accordingly, to achieve a specific purpose.  The formation and placement of the earth, sun, and moon, are the result of God's manipulation of creation.

As science has discovered there is an evolutionary process to creation. At certain points of the evolutionary process of creation, God would speak new elements into the creation of the earth, causing the grass, plants, trees, etc. to come forth from the earth, and the waters to bring forth life, the kinds of animals etc. The evolutionary process within the species of the kinds of animals, brought into existence the numerous varieties within species we've seen throughout history and today.

Notice there are two different creations of man, the first in Geneses 1:26-30. In this example man was in the image of God, but just a little higher in creativity and reasoning than the rest of the animal species. After the earth, animals and man evolved to a certain point in the evolutionary process, God created the man Adam, breathed his breath into Adam, so the man Adam became a living soul, and placed the man Adam into the garden that God had planted for him.

Notice, God planted the garden eastward in Eden. What was this place called Eden? It was an area where mankind was already living and flourishing. Cain also when he went out from the presence of the Lord, dwelt in the land of Nod, east of Eden, where he got him a wife.
« Last Edit: 06/01/2010 01:04:30 by WunderingTruth »
 

Offline grizelda

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #107 on: 30/12/2009 11:43:32 »
Ooh, more icons. Shall we dereference them? Adam is easy - first man = fetus. Eden = womb. Cain - later man = child. Wife = mother. God - an invention of the fetus = consciousness. So the fetus comes to consciousness in the womb, leaves it, and is re-borne at the breast of his mother. A story old as the hills. Not a literal hill, it's just an icon. And many more of them to climb, I'll warrent.
 

Offline peppercorn

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #108 on: 30/12/2009 11:44:35 »
WunderingTruth, please remain on-topic.  If you want to discuss evolution do so in a new thread.
 

Offline WunderingTruth

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #109 on: 31/12/2009 10:36:16 »
It's not me that keeps leading the subject off topic.


After nucleosynthesis, nothing much happened for roughly a million years as the universe continued to cool. The ordinary matter consisted of a hot plasma of nuclei and electrons. The free electrons made the plasma opaque; a photon of radiation could not have traveled far before being scattered. However, once the universe cooled to approximately 3000 K, the electrons no longer moved fast enough to escape the attraction of the nuclei, and atoms formed. Although there had been no previous combination, this event is still known as recombination. The last moment at which the universe was opaque forms the surface of last scattering; it represents the effective edge of the universe that is even theoretically visible with an optical telescope, since no optical telescope could ever penetrate the dense, opaque plasma that existed prior to recombination. Once the radiation was able to stream freely through the universe, matter and radiation lost the tight coupling that had bound them since the beginning. Henceforth matter and radiation evolved almost entirely independently. The photons that filled the universe at the surface of last scattering make up the CBR today, but now their energy is mostly in the microwave band. At some point before or near recombination, the matter density and the energy density were equally important. This is the epoch in which structure formation began to occur. The seeds of structure formation may have been planted much earlier, during the GUT epoch, but the tight coupling between radiation and matter prevented the density perturbations from doing much. Once matter and radiation went their separate ways, density pertubations could evolve on their own. The most overdense areas collapsed gravitationally, forming galaxies and clusters of galaxies. Less dense areas probably led to voids, the large underdense areas we see on the sky today. The process by which structure formed in the early universe is still very poorly understood; better data from instruments such as the planned successor to COBE will help to elucidate the mystery of the galaxies.
http://astsun.astro.virginia.edu/~jh8h/Foundations/chapter13.html [nofollow]

The paragraph above seems to support my theory. With my theory it is not the expansion of the universe, but the condensing of the energy that makes up matter, that created the transparent void of darkness that contains the cosmic background radiation." The most overdense areas collapsed gravitationally, forming galaxies and clusters of galaxies. Less dense areas probably led to voids, the large underdense areas we see on the sky today ".

In my theory the electron energy surrounded the nuclei forming atoms, as matter condensed this same electron energy was stretched across the universe creating the cosmic background radiation.
 
As the temperature cooled to the point of, what you call quark confinement, two types of energy was created, free energy and confined energy. The cooling did not necessarily cause the confinement of energy, but rather the stretching of the free energy caused the cooling and confinement of energy. The confined energy would be the energy that creates mater. The free energy would be the energy that pulls it all together, or gravity.
( So called quarks, became the confined energy? anti quarks the free energy?, or confined and free photons? )

As the confined energy began to condense, the free energy began to stretch. The confined energy condensed at individual locations throughout the newly forming universe causing the free energy to stretch across the entire universe.

This stretching of the free energy caused the free energy to become a weak energy. This weak energy is detected as the cosmic background radiation that evenly fills the entire universe.

The electron cloud surrounding the nuclei and creating the atom, is actually the point of concentration of this free energy attracted to the confined energy. This point of concentration of the free energy appears to be weak because it is stretched throughout the universe. this energy is actually equal to the amount of confined energy it surrounds.
 

Offline standalone

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #110 on: 31/12/2009 16:21:52 »
The questions regarding big bang and god are same but appeared to be different.The question of extremities starting of sth and ending of sth are real cause of why we say or pray god.This is happening because actually we donot know why we are here,what is matter,what is  mass,what is light,......etc. We donot know but just pretending we know it.
 

Offline grizelda

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #111 on: 02/01/2010 07:34:54 »
Dereferencing the icons:
 Confined energy = womb as experienced by fetus. Stretched free energy = the universe outside the womb, as experienced by the child.

So the womb surrounding the fetus was considered by the fetus to be an extension of itself, which is the pattern for consciousness, which the child extends into the future and the universe to create its sense of identity.
 As in the last one, it's all about us. If you keep getting the same answer, it's because you are asking the same question. Science allows us to ask questions and find answers that are not just part of the pattern we are set in.
 

Offline peppercorn

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #112 on: 02/01/2010 17:34:38 »
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The evidence for human evolution is overwhelming,
Yes, evolution from primitive man, but there is no overwhelming evidence linking primitive man to apes, which is a whole different species.

WunderingTruth, please remain on-topic.  If you want to discuss evolution do so in a new thread.

Quote from: WunderingTruth
It's not me that keeps leading the subject off topic.

Er, in this case, I think it is.
Can you also try to get back to the science of your argument.  This constant reliance on your personal experiences and relationship with your God is not going anywhere.

This discussion has moved far out of 'new scientific theoreies' & into theology (or philosophy at best). The new theories section of TNS forum is not the place for these.



This is happening because actually we donot know ... what is matter,what is  mass,what is light,......etc. We donot know but just pretending we know it.
It seems to me we have a very good understanding of these things.
« Last Edit: 02/01/2010 17:39:20 by peppercorn »
 

Offline Geezer

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #113 on: 02/01/2010 21:02:03 »
Yes, evolution from primitive man, but there is no overwhelming evidence linking primitive man to apes, which is a whole different species.

Actually, there is an overwhelming amount of evidence linking primitive man to primitive apes.

Can you provide some tangible evidence to support your statement (other than the Bible)?
 

Offline WunderingTruth

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #114 on: 06/01/2010 02:07:31 »
Dereferencing the icons:
 Confined energy = womb as experienced by fetus. Stretched free energy = the universe outside the womb, as experienced by the child.

So the womb surrounding the fetus was considered by the fetus to be an extension of itself, which is the pattern for consciousness, which the child extends into the future and the universe to create its sense of identity.
 As in the last one, it's all about us. If you keep getting the same answer, it's because you are asking the same question. Science allows us to ask questions and find answers that are not just part of the pattern we are set in.
The fetus is formed within the womb of darkness, as a fetus in the womb, our reality receives information from the darkness, which shapes what we perceive to be real.

The darkness pulls light together, as well as separates. Light is bound up in darkness, while darkness is free to do its' own will.

Science has discovered the elements of light, answering their own questions, They ignore what is right. Through the eyes of there delusion, they only see what they want to believe.

 

Offline Geezer

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #115 on: 06/01/2010 07:55:16 »

The fetus is formed within the womb of darkness, as a fetus in the womb, our reality receives information from the darkness, which shapes what we perceive to be real.

The darkness pulls light together, as well as separates. Light is bound up in darkness, while darkness is free to do its' own will.

Science has discovered the elements of light, answering their own questions, They ignore what is right. Through the eyes of there delusion, they only see what they want to believe.



WunderingTruth - This is a science forum. Thus far it has been very liberal by allowing you to make your proclamations without a shred of evidence or validatdation.

But enough. This thread is now locked.
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #115 on: 06/01/2010 07:55:16 »

 

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