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Author Topic: ?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?  (Read 36277 times)

Offline WunderingTruth

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #50 on: 08/12/2009 10:01:51 »
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconductivity [nofollow]
A perfect superconductor in a perfect vacuum can spin almost indefinitely.

Thank you for that,it was interesting, but this shows the unresisted flow of electrical current through a superconductor. I don't believe this pertains to the rotation of planets and black holes.

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It isn't acting like a wave (whilst in motion) when it is sent through a single slit. That's the comparison the experiment makes - photon's have both wave-like and particle-like qualities.
It appears as a particle when observed, measured, absorbed, stopped in any way. What you observe is the point of concentration of the energy that was in motion. Science can not figure out how energy that appears as a particle can behave as a wave when two slits are open, even when only one "particle" of energy is fired at a time, but as a particle when observed. My theory answers that question.

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Biased toward empiricism and rationality? Yer, I'll hold my hand up to that!
Rational biased by the, my mind is made up, science is all conclusive and there is no God syndrome.

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The further the distance light has travelled the more it's wavelength has been stretched (red-shifted) by the expanding media it's travelling through - ie. the dimensions of space.
Light is traveling through light that has been stretched to transparent waveless darkness. The light source emits light energy that stretches through space through waves of infinite mass. 

Every dimensional point within the space/time continuum receives a picture of its' reality, expanding from the point of dimension outward to the beginning of time.

Light emitted from any point of reality expands outward to all points of reality as waves that intersect every other wave at every point of reality at some point in time. The ever changing picture of every dimensional point within the space/time continuum creates the illusion of reality.
 

Offline WunderingTruth

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #51 on: 08/12/2009 10:30:57 »
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And that is why science is not a religion, pragmatism. However, you are convinced that your particular deity exists, and have clearly closed your mind to other ideas.
I never claimed science is a religion. I said closing your mind to contrary evidence, to hold to the ( belief ) that there is no creator is the "religion of science" that closes your mind to any evidence or theory that points to a creator.

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However, you are convinced that your particular deity exists
Not my particular deity, the creator of reality.

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Try me?
Try, The Son of God, the first born of many brothers, The Messiah, The Prince of the prophesy of Daniel, The Christ, The second man Adam which is The Lord from Heaven, God manifest in the flesh, The word became flesh, The Teacher of Righteousness, One of the two witnesses of Revelation chapter eleven, shall I continue?
 

Offline BenV

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #52 on: 08/12/2009 10:49:34 »
Oh, you're the messiah? Fair enough then, you must know the mind of your chosen deity better than most.

Just out of interest, what is it in your hypothesis that precludes the creator or creators being any of the following:

Shiva, Vishnu & Brahma; Odin; the black winged bird Nyx; Jupiter; Mbombo; Damballah; Bathala, Aman Sinaya & Amihan; An, Enlil, Enki & Ninhursanga; Coatlique; Tepeu and Gucamatz; Xenu; The Great Green Arkleseizure...

Any evidence for one is evidence for all, surely?
« Last Edit: 08/12/2009 11:57:54 by BenV »
 

Offline Madidus_Scientia

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #53 on: 09/12/2009 16:41:51 »
It's not that our mind is closed to evidence of a creator, just that there is no evidence.
 

Offline WunderingTruth

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #54 on: 10/12/2009 03:06:21 »
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It's not that our mind is closed to evidence of a creator, just that there is no evidence.
The creation itself is the evidence. Science is on a path of discovery. Science has discovered that the superstitious beliefs of religions concerning creation are inventions of mans imagination, in an attempt to Know God.

Religions, cultures, legends, myths, spiritual beliefs in general, are all the brain children of man's imagination, inventions of the mind throughout the generations.

I have been attempting to show to the scientifically minded, how creation was and is self creating from the light of creation, but, if you can not find the dreamer within the dream, does this mean the dreamer does not exist?

Of all people, those who have the ability to study the wonder of reality, and to plumb the depths of the existence of life, the people of science should be the ones declaring the wonder and glory of God. Instead they choose ( within their blindness ) to argue against his existence because they cant see or touch him.

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Oh, you're the messiah? Fair enough then, you must know the mind of your chosen deity better than most.
Chosen deity? My heart set me on a journey to know God, my path took me on a journey ta know Satan. I had to know Satan as he appears as an angel of light, and even as God himself, before God could open my eyes to the revelation of him, and of myself.
 

Offline Geezer

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #55 on: 10/12/2009 05:31:21 »
Science has discovered that the superstitious beliefs of religions concerning creation are inventions of mans imagination, in an attempt to Know God

WT, that is not true. Science (or more precisely, scientists) have discovered nothing of the sort.

Scientists only make discoveries based on repeatable observations. In the absence of such observations, the only determination scientists can make regarding other peoples beliefs is that they are yet to be proved. Saying that they are not yet proved is NOT the same as saying they are superstition or imagined.

 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #56 on: 10/12/2009 05:34:54 »
In a sense, he was right in what he said. If you take the human away, there is no internal information which works in a relative sense to what is there.

In other words, we know no reaity but the one we percieve, and even that reality is not the true reality. IT'S a re-projection of information from th outside and into the retina... That is, if you don't believe that all information already resides within us ina dormant state until awareness unlocks the information that is dorment.
 

Offline Geezer

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #57 on: 10/12/2009 06:14:09 »
In a sense, he was right in what he said. If you take the human away, there is no internal information which works in a relative sense to what is there.

In other words, we know no reaity but the one we percieve, and even that reality is not the true reality. IT'S a re-projection of information from th outside and into the retina... That is, if you don't believe that all information already resides within us ina dormant state until awareness unlocks the information that is dorment.

Mr S, assuming you are referring to WT's post, your observation seems rather similar to:

"When a tree falls in the forest, and there is nobody there to see it fall, does it make any sound?"

(BTW, I see you have not quite mastered the Spell Check feature yet. You should try it. You might find it quite educating. We would not want people to think we are suffereing from "poor education".)
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #58 on: 10/12/2009 06:24:31 »
Thank you for your concern, but i think it was wrapped in a totally disengeneous meaning.

Either way, the principle is not true, depending that we take a solipsistic adventure into the known, rather the unknown.
 

Offline WunderingTruth

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #59 on: 10/12/2009 10:53:15 »

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WT, that is not true. Science (or more precisely, scientists) have discovered nothing of the sort.

Scientists only make discoveries based on repeatable observations. In the absence of such observations, the only determination scientists can make regarding other peoples beliefs is that they are yet to be proved. Saying that they are not yet proved is NOT the same as saying they are superstition or imagined.
I am talking about superstitious beliefs that many religions held concerning creation that have been proven wrong.

Some Christian sacred cows, The literal six twenty fore hour days of creation, Adam and eve being the first humans, the earth is the center of the universe and the universe revolves around it. ( Although from God's perspective the earth is the center of God's attention and the universe does revolve around it ).

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In other words, we know no reaity but the one we percieve, and even that reality is not the true reality. IT'S a re-projection of information from th outside and into the retina... That is, if you don't believe that all information already resides within us ina dormant state until awareness unlocks the information that is dorment.
Our perception of reality is formed by our reasoning of all of the information received within our six senses. Our central nervous system is an extension of our mind into reality by which we perceive sight ( optic nerve ), touch, smell, taste, hearing, and our sixth sense, the mind itself that receives and processes information.

Our mind is an activity of light, ( firing of neurons ), receiving information from light. The optic nerve receives the visible light, the central nervous system receives and transmits information to the mind by the light of spirit transferred through electrical impulses.

The stretching of light into the reality of space/time is a stretch of God's imagination. Time is an illusion of reality, as is reality itself. God gave us his mind so we could journey through it through the journey of time.
 

Offline BenV

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #60 on: 10/12/2009 11:11:21 »
God gave us his mind so we could journey through it through the journey of time.

Please remember, this is a science forum.
 

Offline peppercorn

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #61 on: 10/12/2009 12:41:39 »
...our sixth sense, the mind itself that receives and processes information. Our mind is an activity of light, (firing of neurons), receiving information from light. The optic nerve receives the visible light, the central nervous system receives and transmits information to the mind by the light of spirit transferred through electrical impulses. The stretching of light into the reality of space/time is a stretch of God's imagination. Time is an illusion of reality, as is reality itself. God gave us his mind so we could journey through it through the journey of time.
Our minds are not a sense (though they can be a good place to find non-sense!). Our minds process information from our senses. The only other 'store' of information our minds have is the rules and guiding principles that are hard-wired into it by our genetics.  If a creator put them there all well & good; that doesn't change the observed facts - that's the kind of 'evidence' we're dealing with in the forum.

If you want to talk at length about God or His role in our world/universe, I suggest you find a Theological or philosophical forum to discuss these beliefs.

If you want to 'talk' science, then everyone here will be happy to listen, but you need to use the correct terminology or you'll continue to win very few people over. Statements like "light of spirit transferred through electrical impulses" is as useful as talking modern English to an ancient Egyptian - you've got to start with a common language of ideas.

Ultimately, you ought to decide what you want to get out of this forum.
 

Offline Geezer

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #62 on: 10/12/2009 17:48:26 »
Thank you for your concern, but i think it was wrapped in a totally disengeneous meaning.


Mr S - I'm not quite sure why you thought I was being disingenuous (please note spelling). If it was in reference to the fact that you apparently (still) can't be bothered using the Spell Checker, I was being quite clear, but it seems my sarcasm was wasted.

Scientists ought to be concerned that they communicate as clearly as possible.   
 

Offline Madidus_Scientia

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #63 on: 10/12/2009 18:54:45 »
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It's not that our mind is closed to evidence of a creator, just that there is no evidence.
The creation itself is the evidence.

How is that evidence of a god? Indeed the origins of the universe are a mystery, but if you assert that it must have a creator, then by that logic the creator must have a creator too, and a creator to create that creator, and your theory leads you to an infinite amount of magical creators. If you're going to reply to that with something like "God has no birth or death but always has been and always will be" then why not just cut out the middle man and adopt the simpler hypothesis and swap the word God for universe?
 

Offline WunderingTruth

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #64 on: 11/12/2009 08:18:53 »
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Our minds are not a sense (though they can be a good place to find non-sense!). Our minds process information from our senses. The only other 'store' of information our minds have is the rules and guiding principles that are hard-wired into it by our genetics.  If a creator put them there all well & good; that doesn't change the observed facts - that's the kind of 'evidence' we're dealing with in the forum.
What you are describing is a computer, our mind is more than just a computer. And if it were just a living computer it could not have created itself.

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If you want to talk at length about God or His role in our world/universe, I suggest you find a Theological or philosophical forum to discuss these beliefs.
You know I am there. You can only see what you want to see, if you don't want to see you will not understand.
http://dissidentphilosophy.lifediscussion.net/philosophy-f1/a-conversation-cocerning-light-t93 [nofollow]
http://dissidentphilosophy.lifediscussion.net/religion-f4/revelation-revealed-debate-started-from-crosswalk-forum-t966.htm [nofollow]

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If you want to 'talk' science, then everyone here will be happy to listen, but you need to use the correct terminology or you'll continue to win very few people over. Statements like "light of spirit transferred through electrical impulses" is as useful as talking modern English to an ancient Egyptian - you've got to start with a common language of ideas.
I have been talking about science, and my theory of creation. y'all want to keep debating about the existence of God. What terminology can I use to describe cloud formations to a blind person?
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Ultimately, you ought to decide what you want to get out of this forum.
I'm just sharing, I don't want to " get " anything thank you, I don't need anything. And as far as winning anybody over? I really don't give a sh1t about that either.
« Last Edit: 11/12/2009 08:22:33 by WunderingTruth »
 

Offline WunderingTruth

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #65 on: 11/12/2009 08:49:10 »
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How is that evidence of a god? Indeed the origins of the universe are a mystery, but if you assert that it must have a creator, then by that logic the creator must have a creator too, and a creator to create that creator, and your theory leads you to an infinite amount of magical creators. If you're going to reply to that with something like "God has no birth or death but always has been and always will be" then why not just cut out the middle man and adopt the simpler hypothesis and swap the word God for universe?
I am not just relying on logic. I know the purpose of all things. God is my father and he has revealed himself and his purpose to me. How he created all things is not as important as why. I'm waiting to find a heart that wants to see, because the mind can never understand what the heart can not see.

This reality is not eternal ( You should see my theory of how it is about to end ). God is eternal. You think all of this is about us?, it's not. It's about God changing his reality from God is, to we are. To bad for those who chose to abide in darkness when we leave it and the darkness is no more.
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #66 on: 11/12/2009 08:57:18 »
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It's not that our mind is closed to evidence of a creator, just that there is no evidence.
The creation itself is the evidence.

How is that evidence of a god? Indeed the origins of the universe are a mystery, but if you assert that it must have a creator, then by that logic the creator must have a creator too, and a creator to create that creator, and your theory leads you to an infinite amount of magical creators. If you're going to reply to that with something like "God has no birth or death but always has been and always will be" then why not just cut out the middle man and adopt the simpler hypothesis and swap the word God for universe?

What happened to the logic a God can create himself/herself?
 

Offline WunderingTruth

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« Reply #67 on: 11/12/2009 09:00:23 »
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Please remember, this is a science forum.
Right, and you'll never see God in the ( logic ) of your science will you? You just keep reasoning him away, you can explain all of that to him when you see him. Just know this he is your father too. You choose to deny him and believe the father of lies.
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #68 on: 11/12/2009 09:05:05 »
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Please remember, this is a science forum.
Right, and you'll never see God in the ( logic ) of your science will you? You just keep reasoning him away, you can explain all of that to him when you see him. Just know this he is your father too. You choose to deny him and believe the father of lies.

But don't try and rattle Gods quantum box to suit the postulates of physics. Physics as we understand it is most possibly not how God himself views it, so any postulations concerning God and quantum physics must be done so with GREAT care.
 

Offline BenV

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #69 on: 11/12/2009 10:30:08 »
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Please remember, this is a science forum.
Right, and you'll never see God in the ( logic ) of your science will you? You just keep reasoning him away, you can explain all of that to him when you see him. Just know this he is your father too. You choose to deny him and believe the father of lies.

I don't really chose to deny any god - they're all welcome to provide evidence for their existence if they do, indeed, exist.

Do you not see how a belief in a deity could skew your perceptions of reality?  Do you not appreciate that this is what science is for, to attempt to find objective descriptions of reality? (technically inter-subjective, but that's as close to objective as humans can get).

Try to reconsider the physics you're promoting starting with no assumptions - you have started with the assumption of the existence of a deity, so the end results will all be subject to that assumption.  Trying to rid yourself of assumptions is part of the art of science.


 

Offline Madidus_Scientia

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #70 on: 11/12/2009 11:52:55 »
I am not just relying on logic. I know the purpose of all things. God is my father and he has revealed himself and his purpose to me.

The human brain is not perfect and is prone to hallucination and misinterpretation. Like any machine it can malfunction. Can you accept this possibility? If you are not relying on logic and believing purely because "God has revealed himself to you" then what's the difference between you and someone hopped up on LSD claiming they've just seen a unicorn being ridden by the easter bunny?

Maybe god did reveal himself to you, maybe the person did see the easter bunny riding a unicorn, but you can't possibly consider this testimonial as evidence.

I wouldn't even consider it evidence if it happened to myself!

If suddenly a being flashed into existence right beside me now and went on to explain it was a god, and showed me all manner of supernatural powers, then if the rational thought processes of my brain still functioned I would have to come to the conclusion that I was hallucinating and seek to admit myself to a mental illness ward. It is a much more likely explanation than the existence of what I think i'm seeing and/or feeling.

Or, if like you I was to 'not rely on logic' then I would accept my new god who looks like a great mess of floating spaghetti and meatballs and then go around trying to persuade people despite having no evidence he/she's real because they revealed themselves to me and I know! Just know this, the spaghetti monster is your father and if you choose to deny him then you're believing in the father of lies!

You see how crazy that sounds?

To 'not rely on logic' seems to be just plain mistaken by definition.

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You think all of this is about us?

All of this being the universe? No, I don't. I think we're the most tiny insignificant spec of dust. Do you think all of this is about us? A god created the whole vast universe just for a few primates who think they're special somehow?

As Douglas Adams said, assuming that the universe has been created for us is rather like a puddle waking up one day and saying: 'This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!'
« Last Edit: 11/12/2009 12:08:25 by Madidus_Scientia »
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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?Big Bang or Just A Stretch of Godís Imagination?
« Reply #71 on: 11/12/2009 12:49:54 »
I am not just relying on logic. I know the purpose of all things. God is my father and he has revealed himself and his purpose to me.

The human brain is not perfect and is prone to hallucination and misinterpretation. Like any machine it can malfunction. Can you accept this possibility? If you are not relying on logic and believing purely because "God has revealed himself to you" then what's the difference between you and someone hopped up on LSD claiming they've just seen a unicorn being ridden by the easter bunny?

Maybe god did reveal himself to you, maybe the person did see the easter bunny riding a unicorn, but you can't possibly consider this testimonial as evidence.

I wouldn't even consider it evidence if it happened to myself!

If suddenly a being flashed into existence right beside me now and went on to explain it was a god, and showed me all manner of supernatural powers, then if the rational thought processes of my brain still functioned I would have to come to the conclusion that I was hallucinating and seek to admit myself to a mental illness ward. It is a much more likely explanation than the existence of what I think i'm seeing and/or feeling.

Or, if like you I was to 'not rely on logic' then I would accept my new god who looks like a great mess of floating spaghetti and meatballs and then go around trying to persuade people despite having no evidence he/she's real because they revealed themselves to me and I know! Just know this, the spaghetti monster is your father and if you choose to deny him then you're believing in the father of lies!

You see how crazy that sounds?

To 'not rely on logic' seems to be just plain mistaken by definition.

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You think all of this is about us?

All of this being the universe? No, I don't. I think we're the most tiny insignificant spec of dust. Do you think all of this is about us? A god created the whole vast universe just for a few primates who think they're special somehow?

As Douglas Adams said, assuming that the universe has been created for us is rather like a puddle waking up one day and saying: 'This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!'

Why not though?

If* i were God, there would be nothing more spectacular for my beings asmuch to show them their true significance in an equally daunting and vast spectrum.


*And not that i would ever take such a role
 

Offline Madidus_Scientia

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« Reply #72 on: 11/12/2009 13:10:23 »
We are orbiting one of roughly a hundred billion stars which is in one of trillions of galaxies, the chances are that we are one of hundreds of thousands of planets with life. To me that makes us seem pretty insignificant.
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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« Reply #73 on: 11/12/2009 13:17:08 »
Really? How lonely it seems... what if told you the chances of us to even sit here is about 10^10^123 to 1 - that's very significant from my mind?
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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« Reply #74 on: 11/12/2009 13:19:03 »
His song, but not the best sung, corrolates greately with your words..

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