The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: Ideas for population control?  (Read 25321 times)

Offline Tim the Plumber

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 242
  • Thanked: 10 times
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for population control?
« Reply #50 on: 06/03/2016 11:26:23 »
What, exactly, is evil about not making babies?

I have a deep loathing of all things religious, but I can't bring myself to criticise monks and nuns for their celibacy.

Forcing people not to have babies or killing people is evil.

Spreading lies such as the lie that we are over populated is evil.
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4704
  • Thanked: 153 times
  • life is too short to drink instant coffee
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for population control?
« Reply #51 on: 06/03/2016 18:26:51 »
But it isn't a lie. We only survive because of artificial fertilisers, without which crop yields globally would be 30 - 50% less, and the production of artificial fertilisers depends on burning fossil fuels, of which we only have a finite amount. Most populations are now critically short of drinking water: not only in the third world but in places like California.

It is entirely possible that our great-grandchildren could eke out a pathetic living with a population of 10,000,000,000 or more, but only a very evil man would wish it on them. On the other hand, if we took steps to limit the population immediately, we and every successive generation would benefit from an increasingly good standard of indefinitely sustainable living.
 

Offline Tim the Plumber

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 242
  • Thanked: 10 times
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for population control?
« Reply #52 on: 12/03/2016 16:48:16 »
But it isn't a lie. We only survive because of artificial fertilisers, without which crop yields globally would be 30 - 50% less, and the production of artificial fertilisers depends on burning fossil fuels, of which we only have a finite amount. Most populations are now critically short of drinking water: not only in the third world but in places like California.

Drivel. We use vast amounts of food as fuel. So much that at least 10 million people per year die of lack of food due to this artifical 70% increase in the price.

California has plenty of water. It has not enough to make it, a natural desert, grow as much high water requirement crops than the farmers want that's all.

Have you forgotten already the fuss over peak oil? It has not peaked and will not before we find better ways of making electricity.


Quote
It is entirely possible that our great-grandchildren could eke out a pathetic living with a population of 10,000,000,000 or more, but only a very evil man would wish it on them. On the other hand, if we took steps to limit the population immediately, we and every successive generation would benefit from an increasingly good standard of indefinitely sustainable living.

We have 7 billion today and use huge amount of surplus food for fuel. 30% increase in demand with increased use of good farming practice world wide will still leave plent for the starving people by using it as fuel industry.
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4704
  • Thanked: 153 times
  • life is too short to drink instant coffee
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for population control?
« Reply #53 on: 13/03/2016 00:02:11 »
Have you been to Mumbai or Kolkata? Witnessed a crop failure in Sudan? Life for many people on this planet is a miserable interlude before starvation. With no effort whatever, it could be made very comfortable indeed for everyone. What's your problem with that?
 

Offline Tim the Plumber

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 242
  • Thanked: 10 times
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for population control?
« Reply #54 on: 13/03/2016 08:40:02 »
Have you been to Mumbai or Kolkata? Witnessed a crop failure in Sudan? Life for many people on this planet is a miserable interlude before starvation. With no effort whatever, it could be made very comfortable indeed for everyone. What's your problem with that?

I have no problem with the world getting better. I want nobody to die of hunger or hunger related diseases.

That's why I consider the enviromental movement evil beyond compare.

The poorest couple of billion people on the planet pay 70% more for their food than they should. This has to be killing a goodly percentage of them. This has been happeneing for 20 years or so. That's way more people than died in the second world war and almost as much as Genghis and his boys did.

The idea that any of this horror is due to over population is simply a lie. It is due to poor governance and poor economic situations firstly and then helped along by the use of food as fuel.

The impact of all the green transfers of money from the rich world to the poor is to transfer money to the elites of the poor world. They are the kleptocrats who steal the wealth of these poor nations as is. It is them who are responsible for the horror primarily. By making the situation even more benificial for them to have loads of starving people to stick in front of the TV cameras it makes it even more rewarding for them to screw the poor.

What is most needed for the lot of the poor of the world to be improved is acess to such things as food, fuel, transport and information. This is happening, but it is happening inspite of the efforts of the green/communist/guilt trip lobby in the west.
 

Offline chris

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5336
  • Thanked: 65 times
  • The Naked Scientist
    • View Profile
    • The Naked Scientists
Re: Ideas for population control?
« Reply #55 on: 13/03/2016 09:29:49 »
Population is the problem. Put simply, if we weren't here there wouldn't be any problem.

I really cannot understand why we relentlessly devote effort to discovering more and more ways to feed more and more mouths.

The energy cost of a human isn't confined just to the food that each eats; people need somewhere to live, heat and light to read by, clothes, blankets, entertainment.

Taken to the extreme, if we keep increasing the human population, it is unarguable that we will run out of space. At that point, measures would have to be taken to limit growth further.

So why are we waiting for the crisis, rather than making these points, intervening early and avoiding a catastrophe?

India tersely told the world at COP21 in Paris last autumn that it would be opening new power stations on a monthly basis to feed its population's hunger for energy. It challenged the West to solve the problem of climate change for it, because rich countries can afford to help out.

But the West didn't put a billion people in India. India did that itself. That's more than the population Europe and the US put together. And half of those people haven't got access to a toilet.
« Last Edit: 14/03/2016 23:13:35 by chris »
 

Offline the5thforce

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 74
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for population control?
« Reply #56 on: 13/03/2016 11:09:22 »
a huge factor is gonna be just radically different outlooks on life, mindless sex androids and mass homosexuality really only appeals to a certain type of media obedient westerner who already blurs the line between human and machine, these things will enhance life for some people but ultimately our biology is still optimized for a fairly simple system that were already pushing to the limits and likely maxing out a bit/approaching a biological ceiling

another factor is how long would people actually want to live before they wouldnt mind just voluntarily testing their luck at an afterlife, or perhaps being inserted into a minimum energy interactive virtual reality until they are ready to voluntarily pull the plug, and if this is the direction we go in we should be encouraging solid genetic family units and maximal quality of life while people are actually on earth

obviously until we manage to establish widespread free contraceptives, free abortion, free vasectomies for voluntary adults, a policy of stressing no more than 1 or 2 children, were best suited expecting population growth until we have no choice but to use our land vastly more efficiently, probably time to follow china's lead and invest in land expansion techniques, comprehensive planet restructuring of our oceans and continents to maximize functionality, continued expansion into space, thorough GMO testing and implementation, basically taking the reigns from nature and redesign our entire planet to match our intelligence, and all of this would require the U.N. to rapidly step up to the plate with diplomacy because there is no alternative, war and death is just the restart button in the infinite timeloop

there will always be an optimal use of every single atom in our solar system if we meet the challenge and fully assume our rightful inheritance as co-architects of existence
 

Offline Tim the Plumber

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 242
  • Thanked: 10 times
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for population control?
« Reply #57 on: 13/03/2016 12:03:45 »
Population is the problem. Put simply, if we weren't here there wouldn't be any problem.

I really cannot understand why we relentlessly devote effort to discovering more and more ways to feed more and more mouths.

The energy cost of a human isn't confined just to the food that each eats; people need somewhere to live, heat and light to read by, clothes, blankets, entertainment.

Taken to the extreme, if we keep increasing the human population, it is unarguable that we will run out of space. At that point, measures would have to be taken to limit growth further.

So why are we waiting for the crisis, rather than making these points, intervening early and avoiding a catastrophe?

Indian tersely told the world at COP21 in Paris last autumn that it would be opening new power stations on a monthly basis to feed its population's hunger for energy. It challenged the West to solve the problem of climate change for it, because rich countries can afford to help out.

But the West didn't put a billion people in India. India did that itself. That's more than the population Europe and the US put together. And half of those people haven't got access to a toilet.

This silly wrong headed argument has been made for centuries.

There is no practicle limit to poulation. The amount of resources and energy with which we can do stuff like build houses and green the desert is increased with more people.

Soon, in the next few decades, humanity will start to capture asteriods and mine them. The resources floating around the solar system are practically infinate. The potential populations that can be accomodated in extreme luxury in artifical habitats will be beyond anything we will be able to fill in the next thousand years and beyond.
 

Offline chris

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5336
  • Thanked: 65 times
  • The Naked Scientist
    • View Profile
    • The Naked Scientists
Re: Ideas for population control?
« Reply #58 on: 14/03/2016 23:12:21 »
There is no practicle [sic] limit to poulation [sic]. The amount of resources and energy with which we can do stuff like build houses and green the desert is increased with more people.

Tim, you're of course entitled to your opinion, but you have ignored the fundamental point I made, which is what happens when the final square metre of Earth's surface has someone living on it? We will eventually run out of space, so there is a very real practical limit on population. But long before we reach that threshold, without careful stewardship we will have destroyed the planet as we know it.

I don't know about you, but the idea of living in a human-made anthill where the only creature alive on the planet is a human and where green open spaces exist only in virtual reality and peoples' imaginations fills me with horror...
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4704
  • Thanked: 153 times
  • life is too short to drink instant coffee
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for population control?
« Reply #59 on: 14/03/2016 23:43:39 »
I have no problem with the world getting better. I want nobody to die of hunger or hunger related diseases.

That's why I consider the enviromental movement evil beyond compare.
Would that be the environmental lobby to revert East Anglia to a natural swamp? But where would you grow wheat, vegetables and turkeys? Farming is an assault on the environment. You can't have it both ways.
 

Offline the5thforce

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 74
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for population control?
« Reply #60 on: 15/03/2016 02:40:04 »
the earth is made to go into our bodies, the universe is made to go into our bodies, consume until theres nothing left, expand until theres no more expansion

we should also keep in mind the longest existential path may or may not be the most worthwhile path but obviously constant warfare isnt either

the most efficient path will require extremely intelligent planning and molding every aspect of our environment(our home) to suit our continued existence, we should probably invest heavily in IQ/merit based education for kids because ultimately high-neuron people are one of the most vital resources we have, neuron count/brain activity scanners should be created as a voluntary option for parents to test their kids and the government should provide these parents and their kids options for highly specialized schools starting at a young age

we have a shortage of neurons in western government and we all know the greed gene is through the roof in many jews(theyre a double edged sword) which is ultimately why extreme diplomacy with china, north korea and russia is gonna be the only path forward
 

Offline Tim the Plumber

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 242
  • Thanked: 10 times
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for population control?
« Reply #61 on: 15/03/2016 13:56:20 »
Soon, in the next few decades, humanity will start to capture asteriods and mine them. The resources floating around the solar system are practically infinate. The potential populations that can be accomodated in extreme luxury in artifical habitats will be beyond anything we will be able to fill in the next thousand years and beyond.

You did not bother to read the second half of the post then;

Quote
Soon, in the next few decades, humanity will start to capture asteriods and mine them. The resources floating around the solar system are practically infinate. The potential populations that can be accomodated in extreme luxury in artifical habitats will be beyond anything we will be able to fill in the next thousand years and beyond.
[/color]
 

Offline Aemilius

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 311
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for population control?
« Reply #62 on: 17/03/2016 00:03:43 »
Well, I have to confess, I didn't read the whole thread but, we landed on the Moon after all.... Didn't we? So, why not just a well placed artificially induced asteroid impact? It's a simple matter really, surely NASA could at least manage that....

« Last Edit: 17/03/2016 13:53:23 by Aemilius »
 

Offline Tim the Plumber

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 242
  • Thanked: 10 times
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for population control?
« Reply #63 on: 18/03/2016 14:36:48 »
Not evil at all?????

Why are you fantising about killing billions of people?
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4704
  • Thanked: 153 times
  • life is too short to drink instant coffee
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for population control?
« Reply #64 on: 18/03/2016 15:58:19 »
Why are you fantising about killing billions of people?

To whom was this addressed?

According to the World Health Organisation
Quote
131.4 million births per year    55.3 million people die each year
which does suggest something of an imbalance. The answer is simply to reduce the number of births.

Since every birth involves a lot of effort (courtship, mating, pregnancy, birth, child raising..) and risk at each stage, it seems sensible to do less, reduce risks, and let everyone live a long and happy life.

 

Offline Tim the Plumber

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 242
  • Thanked: 10 times
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for population control?
« Reply #65 on: 18/03/2016 16:11:19 »
Why are you fantising about killing billions of people?

To whom was this addressed?

According to the World Health Organisation
Quote
131.4 million births per year    55.3 million people die each year
which does suggest something of an imbalance. The answer is simply to reduce the number of births.

Since every birth involves a lot of effort (courtship, mating, pregnancy, birth, child raising..) and risk at each stage, it seems sensible to do less, reduce risks, and let everyone live a long and happy life.

So lets drop an asteroid onto the earth! Yeah that will kill loads!!!

Who needs to consider that the changes in population levels reflect increasing life spans and that any population that has experienced longer life in the modern world has, without any killing, stopped increasing it's population and there is no need what so ever to kill billions of people!!

If you can redirect an asteroid, and you can, then you can do so such that it is availible for mining and thus start a space industry which would allow us to have vast resources for very little effort. To build large habitats which could house billions in spacious luxury.
 

Offline Tim the Plumber

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 242
  • Thanked: 10 times
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for population control?
« Reply #66 on: 18/03/2016 16:13:44 »
But it isn't a lie. We only survive because of artificial fertilisers, without which crop yields globally would be 30 - 50% less, and the production of artificial fertilisers depends on burning fossil fuels, of which we only have a finite amount. Most populations are now critically short of drinking water: not only in the third world but in places like California.

It is entirely possible that our great-grandchildren could eke out a pathetic living with a population of 10,000,000,000 or more, but only a very evil man would wish it on them. On the other hand, if we took steps to limit the population immediately, we and every successive generation would benefit from an increasingly good standard of indefinitely sustainable living.

Utter drivel.

California only has a water "shortage" because in a natural desert almost all the water availible is used for agriculture. Even then there is hardly a shortage of swiming pools.

Why spout such negative drivel????
 

Offline the5thforce

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 74
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for population control?
« Reply #67 on: 20/03/2016 07:40:48 »
the west is devolving into a system that not only favors low brain activity people- but even more tragic- favors low brain activity in high brain activity people.. i believe it is largely the continued ego, narcissism and greed of previous generations to blame, along with the misguided attempt to replace racism with sexism disguised as 'feminism' or 'lgbt rights' which will undoubtedly backfire if it isnt already, particularly in diverse countries

social issues aside, our solar system is itself a 'spaceship'- we exist to redesign this entire ship and then drive it to search for a new one (a new solar system), in the meantime we should optimize the structure of this planet and eventually start building a new planet, this will require extremely efficient central planning via mass communication and merit-based government, unguided/misinformed capitalism is inevitably on its way out
 

Offline Tim the Plumber

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 242
  • Thanked: 10 times
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for population control?
« Reply #68 on: 20/03/2016 09:30:00 »
the west is devolving into a system that not only favors low brain activity people- but even more tragic- favors low brain activity in high brain activity people.. i believe it is largely the continued ego, narcissism and greed of previous generations to blame, along with the misguided attempt to replace racism with sexism disguised as 'feminism' or 'lgbt rights' which will undoubtedly backfire if it isnt already, particularly in diverse countries

social issues aside, our solar system is itself a 'spaceship'- we exist to redesign this entire ship and then drive it to search for a new one (a new solar system), in the meantime we should optimize the structure of this planet and eventually start building a new planet, this will require extremely efficient central planning via mass communication and merit-based government, unguided/misinformed capitalism is inevitably on its way out

You will understand that I disagree that centrally planned economies are any good. Just look at the historical examples.

The west has triuphed not due to it being unified but because of it's internal competition and disorder. The most continiuosly revolutionary places are those with the best pace of technological development.

Soon there will be an industry based upon captured, mined and inhabited asteroids. This will be the single greatest leap of human wealth ever. The practically limitless resources of the solar system will provide an abundance that will never be exhausted. These rocks will be exploted not by slow and safe central planning but by the dynamic, often dangerous, private initiative and energy of individuals and venture capital taking big risks.
 

Offline the5thforce

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 74
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for population control?
« Reply #69 on: 20/03/2016 11:59:08 »
edited for ease+expanded:


-the economy is not presently and wont ever be one or the other(capitalism and communism are not incompatible with eachother)

-technology eliminates the false dichotomies of the past, technology is fusing capitalism with communism

-communism is itself communication/commutication of- ideas, products, services, resources, strengths, weaknesses, people, genetics, diversity

-as governments continue to merge with technology people will become the main capital

-if the goal is to organize a cooperative/functional global community then its in everyones interest to spread their own wealth (whatever that wealth may be) as often, far, and wide as possible away from the billionare megacorporation communes

-billionare megacorporation communes have become the modern equivalent of "stagnant communism" funded by a global national debt bubble

-the unwillingness of governments to either enforce a wealth cap/wealth tax or to educate citizens that they need to stop giving their money away to these billionare megacorporation-communes is why we have a global national debt bubble

-billionares with literally more money than they know what to do with are stagnating the economy, their wealth is sitting in a personal or corporate bank or asset- collecting dust

-no single mind on earth is worth a billion dollars otherwise they would find a way to spend the billions as fast as they earned them and they wouldn't need to keep more money than they could reasonably spend in a lifetime
 
-only ideas are worth a billion dollars and ideas are products of the communities from which a person lives

-the day billionares enforce their own wealth cap by splurging quicker and paying their employees higher wages so their employees can splurge quicker will be the day they're truly giving back/fairly compensating the community of which they are a product of
« Last Edit: 20/03/2016 13:09:23 by the5thforce »
 

Offline Tim the Plumber

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 242
  • Thanked: 10 times
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for population control?
« Reply #70 on: 20/03/2016 12:23:41 »
its not presently and wont ever be one or the other, technology eliminates the false dichotomies of the past, technology is the fusion of capitalism with communism, communism is itself communication/commutication of- ideas, products, services, resources, strengths, weaknesses, people, genetics, diversity, as governments continue to merge with technology people will become the main capital, if the goal is to organize a cooperative/functional global community then its in everyones interest to spread their own wealth (whatever that wealth may be) as often, far, and wide as possible away from the billionare megacorporations that have become the modern equivalent of "stagnant communism" funded by a global national debt bubble and enabled by the unwillingness to either enforce a wealth cap/wealth tax or to educate people to stop giving their money away to these megacorporation-communes owned by billionares with literally more money than they know what to do with

OK, come back when you can translate that into something understandable.

And I have no wish to be any sort of centrally directed global community.
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4704
  • Thanked: 153 times
  • life is too short to drink instant coffee
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for population control?
« Reply #71 on: 20/03/2016 17:26:07 »

California only has a water "shortage" because in a natural desert almost all the water availible is used for agriculture. Even then there is hardly a shortage of swiming pools.


In other words, the part of the world with the most desirable standard of living, is not capable of sustaining that standard for its present population. Pretty much what I've been saying all along.

There are only two solutions: make more water, or make fewer people. Only one of these is actually feasible on a large scale, in a short time, and indefinitely. If we can't do it by persuasion and reward, the time will come when Man or nature will do it the  hard way.
 

Offline timey

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1298
  • Thanked: 7 times
    • View Profile
    • Patreon
Re: Ideas for population control?
« Reply #72 on: 20/03/2016 20:09:49 »
Well Alan - undoubtably there is no argument against the undeniable necessity for population control - and... I think it is here that you have hit the nail on the head.  Persuasion!  Let's have a look at that...

Fact of the matter is that man is a pack animal.  It is a psychological necessity within the physical make up of mankind to interact with his fellow man as part of a pack.   Unfortunately the byproduct of such interaction incorporates the existence of alpha omega tendencies...

This is a natural form of hierarchy that is echoed throughout the animal kingdom, however the human is an inventive creature.  Alpha personalities, in a bid to ensure their Alpa positions more lazily, quickly realised that to render ones people divided makes for a more peaceful dictatorship, consisting of a greater longevity.

It is clear to see that people living in clans of families is the natural orientation for man, but in that we 'are' divided and ruled, the bond of personal family psychologically replaces the bond of the clan.  You yourself Alan have stated in a post elsewhere that you learnt, or was taught early on in your life to make the distinction between family members and 'others'...!

The point I make is it's all very well saying that we must in the future become one child only families - and with exceptionally good reason - but that we really cannot ignore the fact that this, under the current remit of divide and rule circumstances of smaller and smaller divisions, whereas older generations of family no longer live with the younger generations, constitutes an unnatural and damaging way of life for elders, parents, and children, alike.  That divisions of distance between relatives becomes apparent in lack of local job opportunities, etc, etc.

We already are observing the break down of traditional family values within the remit of society today, and the social ramifications of such.  What will happen if these bonds of family are further reduced by the event of even smaller family groups? Will children of the future become people who make the distinction between family and others as a singular family member?  Are we opening a can of worms in that our future generations, in growing up as the singular point of focus and ambition within a family, will then view themselves as singularities, un-bonded to, and without empathy for their fellow man?

Any policy, as necessary as it may be, will always bear negative effects.  This does not mean that such policies should not be adopted, but it is important that one consider what effects will be caused by a policy across the board, and that all perspectives are fully addressed.

People have an inherent psychological need within themselves to be part of something that is bigger than themselves. This inherent and hard wired need of the human, I believe, requires some very careful thought and consideration indeed...

Personally, I find that within the parameters of a capitalistic society, whereby the notion of community becomes a market place of opportunity to further one's own ends as the result of another's misfortune, that for me...neither politics, religion, nor football suffice!

What to do?
 

Offline Tim the Plumber

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 242
  • Thanked: 10 times
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for population control?
« Reply #73 on: 22/03/2016 20:07:32 »

California only has a water "shortage" because in a natural desert almost all the water availible is used for agriculture. Even then there is hardly a shortage of swiming pools.


In other words, the part of the world with the most desirable standard of living, is not capable of sustaining that standard for its present population. Pretty much what I've been saying all along.

There are only two solutions: make more water, or make fewer people. Only one of these is actually feasible on a large scale, in a short time, and indefinitely. If we can't do it by persuasion and reward, the time will come when Man or nature will do it the  hard way.

No. The only reason there is a "problem" is that there is not enough water for the growing of all the water needing crops in the desert.

The solution is to not grow those crops in the Imperial valley and grow them elsewhere. Which yes I suppose does involve spending a couple of cents a houshold per year extra on fruit to keep the swimming pool.
 

Offline Tim the Plumber

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 242
  • Thanked: 10 times
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for population control?
« Reply #74 on: 22/03/2016 20:11:42 »
Well Alan - undoubtably there is no argument against the undeniable necessity for population control - and... I think it is here that you have hit the nail on the head.  Persuasion!  Let's have a look at that...

Fact of the matter is that man is a pack animal.  It is a psychological necessity within the physical make up of mankind to interact with his fellow man as part of a pack.   Unfortunately the byproduct of such interaction incorporates the existence of alpha omega tendencies...

This is a natural form of hierarchy that is echoed throughout the animal kingdom, however the human is an inventive creature.  Alpha personalities, in a bid to ensure their Alpa positions more lazily, quickly realised that to render ones people divided makes for a more peaceful dictatorship, consisting of a greater longevity.

It is clear to see that people living in clans of families is the natural orientation for man, but in that we 'are' divided and ruled, the bond of personal family psychologically replaces the bond of the clan.  You yourself Alan have stated in a post elsewhere that you learnt, or was taught early on in your life to make the distinction between family members and 'others'...!

The point I make is it's all very well saying that we must in the future become one child only families - and with exceptionally good reason - but that we really cannot ignore the fact that this, under the current remit of divide and rule circumstances of smaller and smaller divisions, whereas older generations of family no longer live with the younger generations, constitutes an unnatural and damaging way of life for elders, parents, and children, alike.  That divisions of distance between relatives becomes apparent in lack of local job opportunities, etc, etc.

We already are observing the break down of traditional family values within the remit of society today, and the social ramifications of such.  What will happen if these bonds of family are further reduced by the event of even smaller family groups? Will children of the future become people who make the distinction between family and others as a singular family member?  Are we opening a can of worms in that our future generations, in growing up as the singular point of focus and ambition within a family, will then view themselves as singularities, un-bonded to, and without empathy for their fellow man?

Any policy, as necessary as it may be, will always bear negative effects.  This does not mean that such policies should not be adopted, but it is important that one consider what effects will be caused by a policy across the board, and that all perspectives are fully addressed.

People have an inherent psychological need within themselves to be part of something that is bigger than themselves. This inherent and hard wired need of the human, I believe, requires some very careful thought and consideration indeed...

Personally, I find that within the parameters of a capitalistic society, whereby the notion of community becomes a market place of opportunity to further one's own ends as the result of another's misfortune, that for me...neither politics, religion, nor football suffice!

What to do?

What to do;-

Point out the drivel that this evil set of lies is.

There is no problem with 10 billion productive people on the planet. There is space a plenty and if the resource that is human endevour is allowed to develope the deserts with good land management there will be more than enough food for all.

Beyond that there is no trouble with hydroponically grown food. It may be slightly more expensive but with all those people being part of a dynamic capitalist economy the average wealth level for us all will be easily high enough to pay for it.
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: Ideas for population control?
« Reply #74 on: 22/03/2016 20:11:42 »

 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
 
Login
Login with username, password and session length