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Author Topic: Why Has Global Warming Stopped?  (Read 16431 times)

Offline litespeed

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Why Has Global Warming Stopped?
« Reply #25 on: 10/12/2009 14:10:15 »
pepper: You seem intimidated by people with high titles in positions of power.  I delt with such people for decades, and they have no special super powers. They are generally easy to interview if you have done preliminary work and show up with a decently informed list of queries. My interviews seldom lasted more then four hours each.  Further, they are almost always delighted to provide their publications and will answer follow up questions with flattered delight and at length.

The results of my 'research' amounted to something that might be called a 'meta' study today. This is not rocket science.
 

Offline litespeed

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« Reply #26 on: 10/12/2009 14:26:36 »
BenV - You wrote: " [Peper wrote: "Also do you think that 90% of the population cares what units the US marks off it's highways in?"Not to mention all the non-american people on here, who really couldn't care less.

Exactly what our investigation showed. Not changing to the metric system was a matter of supernatural indifference to almost the entire population. This would have changed dramatically had we suggested all the signs either be given silly conversions, or moved and reinstalled to match metric.

And don't get me started on paint cans, cement blocks, or bricks. These were areas of my personal investigative responsibility. Leave it at this:  ALL of us were educated in science classes to believe the inherent superiority of metric.  ALL of us expected to find metrification would be a good suggestion. However, after two weeks of preliminary study, ALL of us changed our minds.

Ordinary people can easily explore these things and are often more objective in observation then the specialist who have years, or even decades, of narrow experience, or even invested interests.
 

Offline Madidus_Scientia

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« Reply #27 on: 10/12/2009 17:34:02 »
Madi - I am watching your Beavis and Butthead video and will comment as I go along from time to time. However, I wish you had simply listed the URL I now provide below.  That you post Beavis and Butthead videos to make your point is, well, dissapointing

I'm getting Deja vu, haven't we had this discussion before?

I'd like to quote Bored Chemist -

Quote
The real problem is that he thinks it matters.
I don't care if the video was fronted by an naturalist, a "Shakspearean Actor" or a gorrilla in a tutu.
The facts remain facts.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #28 on: 10/12/2009 21:30:59 »
I must have missed something.
How is the US choice of units for measuring roads related to the change in global temperatures?
Something like 90% of the world's population will never see a road sign, or anything else, in the USA.
 

Offline peppercorn

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« Reply #29 on: 10/12/2009 21:54:50 »
pepper: You seem intimidated by people with high titles in positions of power.  I delt with such people for decades, and they have no special super powers.
Mmmm, don't know where you got the idea that I'm intimidated by... how did you put it? ... people with high titles.
I can only infer that you are talking about the scientist at the IPCC, etc.  I'm not intimidated by them, I do however have respect for their better understanding of the climate than myself.
As for asking them questions, I'd be more than happy to have the opportunity!

The results of my 'research' amounted to something that might be called a 'meta' study today. This is not rocket science.
I'm glad to see you had the sense to put your 'research' in inverted commas.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #30 on: 10/12/2009 22:05:53 »
BTW, for the benefit of those who say the data is not available I recommend that you look at, for example, the second post in this thread.
 

Offline ukmicky

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« Reply #31 on: 11/12/2009 20:13:26 »
BTW, for the benefit of those who say the data is not available I recommend that you look at, for example, the second post in this thread.
Its not as simple as plotting a temperature rise on a graph an saying thats due to human influence.
 

nixietube

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« Reply #32 on: 11/12/2009 20:25:10 »
BTW, for the benefit of those who say the data is not available I recommend that you look at, for example, the second post in this thread.
Its not as simple as plotting a temperature rise on a graph an saying thats due to human influence.

It looks more interesting when you overlay global population onto the same graph.



« Last Edit: 11/12/2009 20:27:01 by nixietube »
 

nixietube

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« Reply #33 on: 11/12/2009 20:28:33 »
Here is another graph for good measure.

 

Offline litespeed

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« Reply #34 on: 11/12/2009 21:27:12 »
nixie - Your temperatures and population graphs don't match. Specifically, your population graph shows not one blip for the catastrophic population declines in Eurasia during the Black Death. The estimate is population declined from as little as 25% to as much as 50%.  In addition, it does not show a blip when Native Americans were reduced by Eurpean diseases to as high as 90 percent, by some calculations.

Please provide sources for a stable population during the pre-industrial age.
 

Offline litespeed

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« Reply #35 on: 11/12/2009 21:32:05 »
nixie

Further, your other chart shows significant changes since 1850. Well DUH. The Little Ice Age ended at about that time. The previous couple of centuries were cold as hell. The Thames and Delaware rivers routinely froze over. Subsequent warming was a welcome change.

This stuff is really not all that difficult. I will ask you one question. Was Britain as war or warmer in Roman times then it is now?  This is a very very easy question.....

 

nixietube

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« Reply #36 on: 11/12/2009 21:46:04 »
litespeed, just before I go find you a ladder to climb down from your high horse, let me point out to you that my posts were to add to the comment made by ukmicky.
 

Offline litespeed

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« Reply #37 on: 11/12/2009 22:44:02 »
nixietube - You wrote: "... just before I go find you a ladder to climb down from your high horse, let me point out to you that my posts were to add to the comment made by ukmicky."

What's your point?  Your population graph shows nothing but continued population increase, which seems ill informed. Further, your 1800 - 2005(?) graph is less then useless since it does not include ANY of the previous warming or cooling events.

More importantly, you have ignored my question temperatures in Roman Era Britain. And I will give you a leg up. Whatever the correct answer, it is not a local phenomena. As for high horses? Somebody needs to lead from the front.....
 

nixietube

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« Reply #38 on: 11/12/2009 23:55:41 »
What's your point?  Your population graph shows nothing but continued population increase, which seems ill informed.

ukmicky said: "Its not as simple as plotting a temperature rise on a graph and saying thats due to human influence. "


Human influence being the key here, the population growth post industrialisation is STAGGERING.



Further, your 1800 - 2005(?) graph is less then useless since it does not include ANY of the previous warming or cooling events.

More importantly, you have ignored my question temperatures in Roman Era Britain. And I will give you a leg up. Whatever the correct answer, it is not a local phenomena. As for high horses? Somebody needs to lead from the front.....


You appear to have lost all track of this thread.  The temperature graph IS NOT MINE. Take a look back to post #2 in this thread. 

So, my point is simple. To remind people of the SCALES involved. 7 billion people.. are you suggesting we have NO EFFECT on this planet? Billions of Joules of energy released from stored deposits .. are you suggesting that has NO EFFECT?

I have no desire to continue this with you, and the fact is I was not even seeking your input, or input from anyone else. My questions in this post are rhetorical, they require no answer from you.
 

Offline litespeed

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« Reply #39 on: 12/12/2009 01:29:46 »
nixie - I like your moxie, and resign my position since I did not adequately follow the thread. And I don't blame you if you decline to respond further.  However, the number of humans on the planet is entirely irrelevant to the discussion as would be the number of dynosaurs on the planet during previous epochs.  Once upon a time CO2 eating Stormatalites dominated the entire planet.  They were responsible for delivering oxygen in sufficient quantities for subsequent animal populations.

My basic proposition is humans believe they are way much more important then they really are. This has always been the case and I doubt it will ever change. Its all about ME ME ME. When the time comes, Mother Nature Will Eat Us All Alive.  And it will have NOTHING to do with coal fired power plants.  Are you entirely unaware ALL fossil fuels were generated from the earths very own generously productive climate?

In addition Ice Ages are recurrent, for various reasons, and are WAY worse for life on earth then warmer epochs.  In fact, we are now in a climate optimum.  Leave it to egocentric human kind to find this is a bad thing. Jeeze.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #40 on: 12/12/2009 17:44:47 »
"Are you entirely unaware ALL fossil fuels were generated from the earths very own generously productive climate?"
I'm aware of that, and of the time scale during which they were made. I'm, also aware of the time sscle over which we are burning them.

"In fact, we are now in a climate optimum. "
Would you like to explain the benfits of this warming to the people of, for example, Tuvalu or Bangladesh?
 

Offline ukmicky

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« Reply #41 on: 12/12/2009 19:48:16 »
nixie

Further, your other chart shows significant changes since 1850. Well DUH. The Little Ice Age ended at about that time. The previous couple of centuries were cold as hell. The Thames and Delaware rivers routinely froze over. Subsequent warming was a welcome change.

This stuff is really not all that difficult. I will ask you one question. Was Britain as war or warmer in Roman times then it is now?  This is a very very easy question.....


I hear it was the perfect time to enjoy a fine bottle of wine, made from home grown grapes.:)
 

Offline ukmicky

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« Reply #42 on: 12/12/2009 20:09:19 »
Quote
"In fact, we are now in a climate optimum. "
Would you like to explain the benfits of this warming to the people of, for example, Tuvalu or Bangladesh?
You cant blame people for living in these places as you live where you are born but Low lying land is subject to problems with flooding.


Bangladesh is a giant natural flood plain which has suffered from adverse weather and flooding all through its history.

Bangladesh gets what you would expect it to get and would still get it even if humans did not inhabit the earth.

« Last Edit: 12/12/2009 20:12:10 by ukmicky »
 

Offline litespeed

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« Reply #43 on: 12/12/2009 21:29:15 »
ukmicky & bored  "Would you like to explain the benfits of this warming to the people of, for example, Tuvalu or Bangladesh?"  You fail to mention The Maldives. You know, the scuba guy in the Copenhagen fish tank.

I have decide to try my best to be civil. Accordingly, instead of chastizing you for not researching sea levels, I will simply provide you with the URL on this matter:

"By the end of this century, sea level may have risen by between 30cm and 50cm according to the various IPCC scenarios. Our records suggest a maximum of 20cm. Neither of those levels would pose any real problem — simply a return to the situation in the 17th and the 19th to early 20th centuries, respectively."  http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/5595813/why-the-maldives-arent-sinking.thtml

Really, it is not that difficult to google: "Sea Level History" and come up with all sorts of interesting and often contradictory data.  With all due respect, what are your findings on sea level changes, and from what sources have you found them?

uk: I can't make a drinkable wine. However, I have made dark beer that is better then Guiness but not as good as Siera Nevada Stout. It is just a matter of economics really. Wine is an art, but beer is a craft.  If you are interested I will try to resurect my Stout Formula.  At this very moment I am fermenting molasses beer at a ratio of one part molasses and five parts water. To this I have simply added half a packet of bread yeast.

It has no malt, barley or hops. Accordingly, I anticipate something rather simple. Perhaps paletable.  Distill the stuff and you get Rum! Boutique distilleries have become a major hobby in the US.  I don't know if they are legal, but they do not sell their product.

Incidentally, having lived in the Southern Appalachian Mountains I have had access to a variety of Moon Shine.  Most of it is to gag you with a spoon.  However, I had access to one gallon of yellow brew that I would place on the same saloon shelf as Single Malt Scotch and Bourbon. $32 a gallon. What a bargain.  Hard to even believe. Further, impossible to re-acquire. 

Phantom mists in the smoky mountains, never to be seen again. More's the pitty!



 


« Last Edit: 12/12/2009 21:45:21 by litespeed »
 

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