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Author Topic: Is there really any concrete information about Space?  (Read 2506 times)

Offline Joe L. Ogan

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I find information about Space to be very elusive.  Just about the time that I think that I KNOW something about Space, someone says that it is wrong.  Even Einstein's theories are questioned at times.  Is there one source that one can find the latest theory or accepted facts?  I welcome your comments.  Thanks, Joe L. Ogan


 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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Is there really any concrete information about Space?
« Reply #1 on: 27/11/2009 19:28:43 »
Information, when quantum physicists refer to it usually mean in it in an ethereal sense. Though,this information can be seen as quantum virtual waves of information.

On the other hand energy is also a type of information. In fact, since the the vacuum is constantly teeming with virtual and real energy, spacetime is in fact a buisy highway of information.
 

Offline Geezer

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Is there really any concrete information about Space?
« Reply #2 on: 27/11/2009 21:10:30 »
There isn't much concrete information about concrete either!  :D

We tend to think in very tangible terms. Our senses tell us the world around us has a lot of substance. But when you we get to sufficiently small scales we discover that even things like concrete are mainly empty space, because atoms are mainly empty space.

This suggests to me that matter owes its existence to properties of space. Particles may only be energy encapsulated by space. Photons are only energy propagating through space. However, I have no evidence (concrete or otherwise) to support this speculation!

If the above is even slightly true, it's hardly surprising that space is so elusive. We could be trying to examine space when we, and all our tools, are made from space itself.
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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Is there really any concrete information about Space?
« Reply #3 on: 27/11/2009 21:18:13 »
There isn't much concrete information about concrete either!  :D

We tend to think in very tangible terms. Our senses tell us the world around us has a lot of substance. But when you we get to sufficiently small scales we discover that even things like concrete are mainly empty space, because atoms are mainly empty space.

This suggests to me that matter owes its existence to properties of space. Particles may only be energy encapsulated by space. Photons are only energy propagating through space. However, I have no evidence (concrete or otherwise) to support this speculation!

If the above is even slightly true, it's hardly surprising that space is so elusive. We could be trying to examine space when we, and all our tools, are made from space itself.

Photons aren't the only energy in spacetime.. take the gluon for example.
 

Offline Vern

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Is there really any concrete information about Space?
« Reply #4 on: 27/11/2009 23:07:42 »
Gluons have not been observed. It is not needed to understand nuclear binding forces; in fact it gets in the way of understanding nuclear binding forces.
 

Ethos

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Is there really any concrete information about Space?
« Reply #5 on: 27/11/2009 23:21:38 »

Photons aren't the only energy in spacetime.. take the gluon for example.
Absolutely Mr. S., and not only the gluon but a mirid of other idenities. For this reason I choose to understand this menagerie of particles to be composed of the same basic stuff. The same basic stuff interacting with the geometry of space/time producing objects of different character because of this geometry. Particles only appear to be different because the geometry of space/time shows us different angles of observation. When we truly understand this geometry, the gigsaw puzzle with be completed.
 

Offline Geezer

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Is there really any concrete information about Space?
« Reply #6 on: 27/11/2009 23:45:48 »

Photons aren't the only energy in spacetime.. take the gluon for example.
Absolutely Mr. S., and not only the gluon but a mirid of other idenities. For this reason I choose to understand this menagerie of particles to be composed of the same basic stuff. The same basic stuff interacting with the geometry of space/time producing objects of different character because of this geometry. Particles only appear to be different because the geometry of space/time shows us different angles of observation. When we truly understand this geometry, the gigsaw puzzle with be completed.


I completely agree with you Ethos. All of these particles are simply different manifestations of some wonderfully simple structure that we do not comprehend - just don't ask me to prove it! I think this was where string theory was going but, to my mind, it became over complicated. Nature tends towards the simplest solution. My hunch is that space is no different.
 

Offline Joe L. Ogan

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Is there really any concrete information about Space?
« Reply #7 on: 27/11/2009 23:49:05 »
There isn't much concrete information about concrete either!  :D

We tend to think in very tangible terms. Our senses tell us the world around us has a lot of substance. But when you we get to sufficiently small scales we discover that even things like concrete are mainly empty space, because atoms are mainly empty space.

This suggests to me that matter owes its existence to properties of space. Particles may only be energy encapsulated by space. Photons are only energy propagating through space. However, I have no evidence (concrete or otherwise) to support this speculation!

If the above is even slightly true, it's hardly surprising that space is so elusive. We could be trying to examine space when we, and all our tools, are made from space itself.  



Photons aren't the only energy in spacetime.. take the gluon for example.

Yes, I understand what you are saying.  And I respect your knowledge in this area.  I mean no disrespect by the following remark;  You are one of the most knowledgeable scientists that I have had the privilege of talking to but, "If we were to measure what you do not know about space and what I do not know about space, it would be about the same."  That is paraphrasing what someoneelse said but I believe it to be true.  Joe L. Ogan
« Last Edit: 28/11/2009 02:00:29 by neilep »
 

Ethos

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Is there really any concrete information about Space?
« Reply #8 on: 27/11/2009 23:50:44 »

I completely agree with you Ethos. All of these particles are simply different manifestations of some wonderfully simple structure that we do not comprehend - just don't ask me to prove it! I think this was where string theory was going but, to my mind, it became over complicated. Nature tends towards the simplest solution. My hunch is that space is no different.

And likewise, I completely agree with you sir. String theory is over the edge and can be compared to straining at the proverbial knat but ready to swollow the proverbial camel.
« Last Edit: 28/11/2009 03:07:48 by Ethos »
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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Is there really any concrete information about Space?
« Reply #9 on: 28/11/2009 01:12:25 »
Gluons have not been observed. It is not needed to understand nuclear binding forces; in fact it gets in the way of understanding nuclear binding forces.

I was under the impression they had been... A non-theoretical binding energy...
 

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Is there really any concrete information about Space?
« Reply #9 on: 28/11/2009 01:12:25 »

 

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