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Author Topic: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?  (Read 42722 times)

ScientificBoyZClub

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #25 on: 01/12/2009 09:27:46 »
I have somewhat slight moral objections towards killing humans for food, but if i get lost in the forest with my friends, I'd definitely try to kill an animal to survive.

And yes I can create life, it's called unprotected intercourse :P
Furthermore, I create life yearly, when i cross breed and pollinate my collection of carnivorous plants.


What if you can't find an animal ?
in your way of creating life of plants you are correct.
But I am talking living animals or human can you ?

Mr.copy cat you just copied the style of Nature.
Without using methods of nature can you create ?
YOU CAN't aha haha aaha hhaa ha ha ha .......

Example: just take a knife can cut one of your hand.
Can you feel the pain ?
can you ? (Ok don't tell me that you would remove pain receptors from your skin)

When any animal is struggling to survive or to live. it got rights to live OK.

WHO the hell are you to kill ??

YOU can't create life without using nature techniques.

or Human copied techniques from Nature. 

you should understand pain and sufferings of all living thing.
than one day you would understand.
« Last Edit: 01/12/2009 09:29:22 by ScientificBoyZClub »
 

Offline Don_1

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #26 on: 01/12/2009 09:29:05 »
SBC, can you please stop eating plants. I am a keen gardener, plants are my friends, I love plants, they too are alive until you kill and eat them.
 

ScientificBoyZClub

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #27 on: 01/12/2009 09:30:23 »
SBC, can you please stop eating plants. I am a keen gardener, plants are my friends, I love plants, they too are alive until you kill and eat them.
LOL
if I stop that ??
how can I live ?? Huh?
you CAN live without meats I can't live with out plants.
 

ScientificBoyZClub

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #28 on: 01/12/2009 09:31:29 »
SBC, can you please stop eating plants. I am a keen gardener, plants are my friends, I love plants, they too are alive until you kill and eat them.
they are killing your turtles.
i think you like them killing your research. 
 

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #29 on: 01/12/2009 09:57:07 »
Different cultures eat different meat and vegetation, that I am prepared to accept, but do not accept hunting wild animals to the point of extinction, or to near extinction, nor do I accept hunting wild animals for useless medicines.

Therefore, I, like Nizzle, eat only meat from animals reared for the purpose (beef, lamb, pork, chicken etc.) and those which are culled out of necessity e.g. venison.
 

ScientificBoyZClub

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #30 on: 01/12/2009 09:58:35 »
Different cultures eat different meat and vegetation, that I am prepared to accept, but do not accept hunting wild animals to the point of extinction, or to near extinction, nor do I accept hunting wild animals for useless medicines.

Therefore, I, like Nizzle, eat only meat from animals reared for the purpose (beef, lamb, pork, chicken etc.) and those which are culled out of necessity e.g. venison.
have fun in eating meats !!
I always cry for them ..... too bad
 

Offline Nizzle

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #31 on: 01/12/2009 10:20:13 »
Mr.copy cat you just copied the style of Nature.
Without using methods of nature can you create ?
YOU CAN't aha haha aaha hhaa ha ha ha .......

Pff, first you ask if i can create life without lab DNA, then I can't copy nature..
I admit I'm not a gifted AI programmer so I have to say I cannot create life if I can't use Lab DNA or copy Nature.

However: can you spell the word meat? But you can't use letters!! aha haha ahum  ::)

 

ScientificBoyZClub

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #32 on: 01/12/2009 10:50:13 »
Mr.copy cat you just copied the style of Nature.
Without using methods of nature can you create ?
YOU CAN't aha haha aaha hhaa ha ha ha .......

Pff, first you ask if i can create life without lab DNA, then I can't copy nature..
I admit I'm not a gifted AI programmer so I have to say I cannot create life if I can't use Lab DNA or copy Nature.

However: can you spell the word meat? But you can't use letters!! aha haha ahum  ::)


very funny !LOL
 

ScientificBoyZClub

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #33 on: 02/12/2009 02:09:02 »
If we shouldn't eat animals, why are they made out of meat?
cos this is only way for nature to make strong animals.
 

Offline geo driver

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #34 on: 02/12/2009 03:16:52 »
meat is good.
vegan is good.

but just think of all the muted cry s of the plants as you rip them out of the ground incapable of the communication needed to stop you from riping them away from there home and boiling them
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #35 on: 02/12/2009 03:21:01 »
meat is good.
vegan is good.

but just think of all the muted cry s of the plants as you rip them out of the ground incapable of the communication needed to stop you from riping them away from there home and boiling them

That arguement would work, if plants had a nervous system to a linkage with a brain-capacity.
 

Offline geo driver

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #36 on: 02/12/2009 03:24:25 »
ok true enough. but it made me smile
 

Offline geo driver

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #37 on: 02/12/2009 03:24:50 »
oh and i eat i belive far too much meat
 

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #38 on: 02/12/2009 03:26:52 »
oh and i eat i belive far too much meat

Then think of everytime you go to KFC... then bring up the rights of animals. I've seen footage of them being boiled alive when they are supposed to be incapacitated. Workers deny all knowlegde. As usual.

They don't want to impede their own identites.
 

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #39 on: 02/12/2009 05:50:44 »
Nizzle - Em, maybe you missed out le chevaux? Maybe just a teeny, tiny nibble perhaps?
 

ScientificBoyZClub

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #40 on: 02/12/2009 08:50:04 »
meat is good.
vegan is good.

but just think of all the muted cry s of the plants as you rip them out of the ground incapable of the communication needed to stop you from riping them away from there home and boiling them

You all are foolish people.
You can't even understand MORELS.


When an animal is struggling for life. we should let it go cos it got right to live.
but cos of you eat meat people KILL them to earn money.

Stupidity of mankind is Infinite.
Einstein was correct.


NOW cut your own hand and know the pain of those ANIMALS !!
« Last Edit: 02/12/2009 08:55:02 by ScientificBoyZClub »
 

Ethos

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #41 on: 12/12/2009 23:17:00 »

GOD sent me to advice and stop you guys not to eat meat.
If you don't listen to me YOU GO TO HELL.

Mr. SBC;

You pictured a Lion, a Tiger, and a Leopard. I just have one question I'd like to have answered:

Are all Lions, Tigers, and Leopards going to Hell?
And what about all birds of prey?
And Bears, Monkeys, Sharks,.......

My goodness, there won't be any room left in Hell for any of us humans will there?????????

Go out and order up a nice juicy medium rare porterhouse. Believe me, once you enjoy one, you'll change your tune.
 

Offline glovesforfoxes

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #42 on: 13/12/2009 20:27:04 »
I've already spoken about veganism to a few people on the forums privately & openly criticise the defense of using animal produce in all forms, including leather, isinglass, honey, dairy, eggs, meat, including that of fish.. anything that has a nervous system, that has the capability to feel pain, should not be made to do so in order to serve human ends. There are several reasons for this:
  • The main crux of my argument is this: Using animal products is unnecessary & causes suffering. Suffering for any dog is bad, so why is it not bad when it is a cow? They have comparable levels of intelligence (but I disagree entirely with the idea of using intelligence to determine how well something should be treated) & most likely the same level of sentiency.
  • There is no "natural" diet of a human being any more than there is a human "nature". What does that even mean? If you examine many different cultures, historically and recently, you'll find that any recent, Western models of understanding human "nature" are disproved so many times that they can't be applied universally. If human nature is to be an omnivore, then what is the nature of this culture?
    http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/life/2005/01/07/stories/2005010700080200.htm
    or indeed large sections of India which are vegetarian or vegan. Our nature is not the same as what we are currently, or what the norm is. Appealing to nature as a justification for a moral issue is a fallacy: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature
    You still think meat eating is natural? Then go ahead & eat that chicken raw. That's how it's eaten naturally.
  • While veganism can be just as healthy or unhealthy as the Western omnivore diet, it certainly promotes good health in Western countries. The only nutritional problems vegans have are vitamin B12 & D deficiency; both can be supplemented. B12 is produced by bacteria which animals carry, which omnis then eat. Vitamin D is a problem in places where there is a lack of sunshine or if your skin is dark.
    The amounts of fruit & vegetables a typical vegan will consume is probably from between 1.5 to 2 times as much as a typical omnivore. Although I hate the whole antioxidant craze, they are full of them, and protect against cancers, obesity, & heart disease - in other words, the health issues most common to Westerners. Meat, milk & eggs on the other hand, are typically consumed in far greater quantities than we are equipped to deal with - leading to the problems that a vegan diet can help fight.
  • It is better environmentally. A vegan will use much less land & water than an omnivore, though I appreciate that some areas that are unsuitable for growing crops can be used for grazing animals.
  • We have a moral duty to not cause harm to animals. Whether you value them as being similar to humans or not, they at least should have the right of non-interference - in other words, we should leave them alone. Anyone approaching moral would not buy bananas knowing that it supports exploitation of other humans in third world countries for example, because we recognise that inherently that human has a right, at least, to not be exploited. You would not exploit an animal you know & have a friendship with - why does that animal deserve your non-interference, but other animals have no right over their own body?
  • There is no question of desertion. What did an animal do, except exist as the animal it is, to live a miserable life? Nothing. It did not choose to be the animal it is any more than you chose to be the animal you are - you could easily have been that animal, & you would not want to be killed. Luck & chance is the reason we are in the position we are & is the same reason that animals are in the position they are in.

I've said this before, & I'll say it again: unfortunately science has been misused to justify moral atrocities. The institutionalised, widespread suffering by animals is the currently the worst moral atrocity. I urge you all to not let science be misused & no longer finance the suffering.

SBC, I wouldn't call omnivores fools, but I'd definitely say their thinking is inconsistent, misguided & hypocritical. Fortunately, things change.. people can change. I do not think people actively want to cause suffering to animals. The link between an omnivore lifestyle & causing suffering is difficult to make for some people, because the moral norm is to use animals.

Feel free to ask questions or comment - but I've found once I post such a comprehensive, philosophical attack on the omnivore lifestyle which is consistent with scientific thinking & secular morals people don't often reply. Makes me wonder why, really..
« Last Edit: 13/12/2009 21:12:18 by glovesforfoxes »
 

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #43 on: 13/12/2009 21:03:48 »
SBC,
Quite a lot of the UK's higher ground is too cold and wet to grow much apart from grass. People can't eat grass so we would starve if we didn't eat animals.

Why does your "moral" crusade want to see me and my neighbours dead from starvation?


By the way I understand morels well enough to know they don't really figure in this discussion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morchella
More importantly I understand the importance of morals and I don't think it's morally acceptable for you to enforce your point of view on the rest of us.
It's not morally acceptable to cause unneccesary suffering to the animals we eat. We should do our best to look after them humanely (and I know there's some irony to that word).
 

Ethos

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #44 on: 13/12/2009 23:04:40 »
SBC,
Quite a lot of the UK's higher ground is too cold and wet to grow much apart from grass. People can't eat grass so we would starve if we didn't eat animals.

Why does your "moral" crusade want to see me and my neighbours dead from starvation?


By the way I understand morels well enough to know they don't really figure in this discussion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morchella
More importantly I understand the importance of morals and I don't think it's morally acceptable for you to enforce your point of view on the rest of us.
It's not morally acceptable to cause unneccesary suffering to the animals we eat. We should do our best to look after them humanely (and I know there's some irony to that word).
Well said BC,..........well said!
 

Offline glovesforfoxes

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #45 on: 13/12/2009 23:38:58 »
Quote
It's not morally acceptable to cause unneccesary suffering to the animals we eat. We should do our best to look after them humanely (and I know there's some irony to that word)

Unfortunately, since the demands of meat are so high, conditions for animals are rarely good. & since when is killing something & eating it treating it humanely? Yes, it feels no pain after it's dead, but you can use that same argument to justify the killing of humans. One of the reasons killing things is bad is because you're preventing them from feeling where they otherwise could - enjoying the sunshine, food, to be free. Though to be honest, where most animals are killed for food, it's safe to say it's a mercy killing, given that they are raised in boxes..
 

nixietube

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #46 on: 14/12/2009 00:11:13 »
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It's not morally acceptable to cause unneccesary suffering to the animals we eat. We should do our best to look after them humanely (and I know there's some irony to that word)

Unfortunately, since the demands of meat are so high, conditions for animals are rarely good. & since when is killing something & eating it treating it humanely? Yes, it feels no pain after it's dead, but you can use that same argument to justify the killing of humans. One of the reasons killing things is bad is because you're preventing them from feeling where they otherwise could - enjoying the sunshine, food, to be free. Though to be honest, where most animals are killed for food, it's safe to say it's a mercy killing, given that they are raised in boxes..

What are you views on other animals towards the top end of their food chain?  pick any.. say a crocodile drowning its prey.
Drowning doesn't seem like a great way to go to me. Why is that acceptable just because it is not human? Compare that to say a bolt through the brain, a common effective means of dispatch. I know many farmers, they care for their livestock and take pride in their welfare. How many farmers do you know? Not all animals are raised in boxes. You cant tar the entire farming industry with the same brush. The suffering crux of your argument above is flawed. Sadly my expertise is not in nutrition, so I'll leave that to you to investigate yourself. Set aside your bias, and take a look at arguments "from the other side".


You mention honey.. what is wrong with using/consuming honey? Do you know what honey is? 

Where are you with Jesus feeding 5000 with 5 loaves of bread and two fish?
« Last Edit: 14/12/2009 00:17:16 by nixietube »
 

Offline glovesforfoxes

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #47 on: 14/12/2009 00:34:32 »
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What are you views on other animals towards the top end of their food chain?  pick any.. say a crocodile drowning its prey.

The killing is necessary for it's food. A crocodile can't be vegetarian & live. Humans don't need to be predators, they have a conscience, & where there are other means of survival they should be used above all else.

Quote
Drowning doesn't seem like a great way to go to me. Why is that acceptable just because it is not human?

It is acceptable because it is free of morality & necessary. The crocodile needs to eat, & does not consider the morality of what it is doing because it can be reasonably assumed it doesn't have a conscience.

Quote
Compare that to say a bolt through the brain, a common effective means of dispatch. I know many farmers, they care for their livestock and take pride in their welfare. How many farmers do you know? Not all animals are raised in boxes. You cant tar the entire farming industry with the same brush.

I can tar them with the same brush that they all kill animals; if they kill, they are doing something wrong. Welfare isn't enough. You don't raise a child, then one day decide because it isn't good for serving your ends anymore that it can't live. No. It's wrong. In exactly the same way it's wrong to kill an animal - even if you treat it right while it's alive.

Quote
The suffering crux of your argument above is flawed.

Which bit?

Quote
Sadly my expertise is not in nutrition, so I'll leave that to you to investigate yourself. Set aside your bias, and take a look at arguments "from the other side".

I've been a meat eater for nearly 18 years. Only recently have I turned vegan, but I've spent time researching about what goes on in farms, nutrition. The arguments from the other side are morally non-existent or seriously flawed - i.e arguments to evolution. I used to defend it, & I used to think vegetarians were weird. Now I see that they have taken the golden rule & applied it consistently. Treat thy neighbor as thyself. I consider everyone in the world, every sentient creature, my neighbor.

Quote
You mention honey.. what is wrong with using/consuming honey? Do you know what honey is?

Yes. Honey is food for bees. Not humans.

http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm

In addition to that, bees are often killed near winter time to cut down on costs. This is wrong for the same reason it's wrong as killing animals.
« Last Edit: 14/12/2009 00:36:50 by glovesforfoxes »
 

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #48 on: 14/12/2009 08:36:27 »
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I consider everyone in the world, every sentient creature, my neighbor.

So, is it more morally defensible to slaughter non-sentient creatures?

"Oh! Whack them. They can't think. What do they care?"

or perhaps,

"I can't think. Therefore I ain't."
 

Offline glovesforfoxes

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #49 on: 14/12/2009 10:39:02 »
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So, is it more morally defensible to slaughter non-sentient creatures?

"Oh! Whack them. They can't think. What do they care?"

or perhaps,

"I can't think. Therefore I ain't."

Yes, it is more morally defensible. Living things can be differentiated from say rocks since it is their intent to stay alive, ordered, & it has specific mechanisms for doing that. So living things must be treated with more respect than inanimate things, & living sentient things should be treated with even more respect than living things. The belief in animal's capability to feel pain, as well as a belief that you should not enslave a sentient creature to serve you, is the foundation of my veganism.

I can already forsee the problem I think you are about to propose, & that's of people in comas, perhaps? They should be treated with respect because they are, or were, capable of consciousness, as well as the angry family members who are definitely still conscious - you'll see when the lawsuit for assault comes through ;D

If something cannot percieve the world with a consciousness, how can it feel pain?
This is a question I am still asking myself about plants. I plan to research it once I'm back at university. If I find that they do feel pain, I will learn to forage.

http://www.vegetus.org/essay/plants.htm
« Last Edit: 14/12/2009 10:42:04 by glovesforfoxes »
 

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
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