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Author Topic: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?  (Read 42678 times)

nixietube

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #50 on: 14/12/2009 12:39:49 »
If something cannot percieve the world with a consciousness, how can it feel pain?
This is a question I am still asking myself about plants. I plan to research it once I'm back at university. If I find that they do feel pain, I will learn to forage.



I think this may have been touched on briefly on an earlier podcast, sorry I cant find it, I looked. I think you need to define pain in the context of the plant ( please would a biologist step in here).. aren't there signaling chemicals  (alluded to in your link )which have been identified when the plant suffers damage or attack? Is that "pain" ??? This reminds me of mushroom farming. It was on TV recently.. the exact details to trigger the 'fruit' is not known, but farmers know to cover the soil which somehow tells the fungus to produce. Sounds like fungus abuse to me, dial 999.

That nicely leads me onto another question I ask myself from time to time.. why do we anthropomorphise just about everything? That is we the human race, I suspect we all do it at times, empathy etc and all that non-verbal communication. Probably best left to another thread.

I respect your views gloveforfoxes, but I do not agree with all of them. The fact remains the human race would not have evolved without being carnivores, but I guess that is ok, because there will be a cute argument for that one somewhere on the interwebs.  I will continue to enjoy my ethically, locally sourced meat and dairy products, along with honey. I'll be visiting a good friend who happens to be an apiarist, we'll have a good read of the link you gave re. honey bees, probably over many beers. We'll try keep the laughter down to a minimum to not waken the flora while you forage.

With no ill intent, and strictly tongue in cheek.
« Last Edit: 14/12/2009 13:45:27 by nixietube »
 

Offline Don_1

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #51 on: 14/12/2009 16:57:56 »
Your point on plants feeling 'pain' is not without ground. Plants do send chemical signals out when under attack. In this way nearby plants of the same species may be able to produce toxins in their leaves/stems etc to protect themselves against a raider.

It is all very well to say consuming meat is unnecessary, but humans have been killing and eating other animals since our ancestors appeared on the Earth. I see no reason to question nature or to alter it.

As one who loves gardening, I could complain that eating my precious plants would be wrong.
 

Offline glovesforfoxes

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #52 on: 14/12/2009 16:59:19 »
Yes, we might need to define pain in the context of a plant.. but how can we ever hope to understand or relate to such an experience?

Quote
The fact remains the human race would not have evolved without being carnivores

Whether that is true or not (I have good reason to believe it isn't - we are carnivores as the result of intelligence, not the cause of it - just look at our meagre muscles, natural weapons, digestive system adapted to mainly eating vegetation..) it is irrelevant to moral arguments & furthermore is an ethically dubious defense at best. You cannot describe something the way it is & say that is justification for the way it is - it's called the naturalistic fallacy. I am concerned with the present & future welfare & rights of animals, not ones I can do nothing about.

It's not anthropomorphism when you compare animals & humans: humans are animals. There is no massive, great divide between humans & animals. They are all animals. We happen to have millenia of acculmulated knowledge because of paper, & as a result, civilisation. Humans seem to think they are in a special place above animals because we're more intelligent. Negatively judging an animal for lacking as much intelligence as a human is like a bird judging a human for lacking as many wings as a bird. It's nonsensical. As far as I'm aware, that's a lot less anthropomorphic than you claim..

You have to impregnate cows to get calves to get milk (usually artificially, with a giant rod) so effectively the cows are continually raped. Then the calves are seperated from their mothers - a process which causes the mother emotional pain. This is without mentioning stereotyping behaviour of caged animals, the cruel process of debeaking, the various diseases farmed animals suffer..

You simply cannot have ethical meat, milk or egg. Or honey. The animals own their bodies & have right over their produce simply because they produce it & are aware of it, just like you have right over your organs & muscles & are, no doubt, aware of it. & don't tell me about free range produce, because it suffers the same flaw: viewing animals as property, instead of as animals.

We should be the responsible stewards of animals - not the theives of their produce. First it was the rights of black people, women, gays, & if history is anything to go by, animals are next. Then this holocaust can be stopped.

Edit: reply to Don_1.

Well, if you think tradition is above the morality of inflicting pain, there is nothing I can say to convince you.

Edit 2: baby cows are calves, not foals :-X
« Last Edit: 14/12/2009 21:10:52 by glovesforfoxes »
 

Offline Geezer

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #53 on: 14/12/2009 17:28:19 »
Quote
You have to impregnate cows to get foals to get milk.


Wow! That would be rather remarkable  ;D

Seriously, the point about plants indicates that the whole thing is shades of grey. We can try to draw a line in the sand somewhere and say it's OK to kill some living things for food and not others. But if we are going to take the real moral high ground, we really should not kill any organisms for food, or "steal" milk from cows, etc.
 

Offline glovesforfoxes

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #54 on: 14/12/2009 17:31:49 »
I agree. That is the highest moral ground. Unfortunately, it is not sustainable for a human to live as a fruitarian. Perhaps as a forager, though, as I've already said - no killing plants or stealing from them. We can minimise suffering by not eating animals, since they're on a higher trophic level & eat many plants themselves. I am committed to minimising the negative consequences on others through existing.

Reducing the population size would be a good way for all of humanity.
« Last Edit: 14/12/2009 17:38:58 by glovesforfoxes »
 

Offline glovesforfoxes

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #55 on: 14/12/2009 18:24:46 »
Quote
But I have canine teeth, and this and other scientific/medical evidence tells me that I'm supposed to eat meat.  I can't deny this scientific evidence; however, I admit that I could not work in a slaughterhouse or go hunting.

I've already commented on the naturalistic fallacy several times. If you think there is something wrong with the naturalistic fallacy, discuss that, but I've already replied to the idea of appealing to nature as a justification for eating meat: it isn't one for reasons I've stated before.

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But that's not an excuse to be a vegan.

Isn't it? Doesn't that show that you're actually repulsed by such things, but have been socialised to see it in a better light? It's a lamb dressed as mutton.

Of course, you can argue that both the repulsion & the attraction are the result of incorporating norms into emotional responses ;) One consistent emotional response to the same product would be.. well.. consistent. I choose repulsion.

Quote
I might not be able to withstand the gore of a surgical operation, but I would want that operation performed on me.  In the same way, I'll buy meat in a store, but don't ask me to turn a live animal into a deli item.  I don't even like to deal with the dead flesh of a store-bought fresh whole chicken, although I'll carve a cooked one.

This is disanalagous - the purpose of the surgical operation is to save life, slaughter obviously is not.

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Pure vegans must eat a careful diet to ensure they receive the nutrients that they don't obtain from meat and other animal products.

They don't need to, in the same way many people don't need to reduce their intake of saturated fat & salt in order to reduce their chances of various heart diseases. They do if they want to be reasonably healthy, though. I've heard off vegans who live off dark chocolate & crisps. Vegans don't need to be particularly health conscious any more than the general population does.

Quote
How are uneducated people in other countries (or our own) convinced to ignore their appetite for meat, and how are they educated to eat a vegetarian diet?  How do vegans justify telling starving people not to eat animals? We're not talking about substituting textiles for animals pelts as a means of clothing ourselves.  We're talking survival.

I don't ignore my appetite for meat. I grew up in a family with fairly traditional ideas about food; 3 good, big meals a day are necessary, milk is good for you, meat is necessary & tasty, etc. I have turned myself off to animal produce by meditating & imagining the animals suffering as part of my own - a Buddhist practice, & an effective one in developing compassion.

As for your quesion about starving people, it is irrelevant in this country, & in many. If we stopped eating meat, there would be much, much more food to go around anyway - currently, in terms of food, the third world countries subsidise our way of life. The soya used to feed animals can be used to feed people instead - it's of no less quality. If you have an understanding of trophic levels you'll understand this.

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Let's not conveniently blind ourselves to other animal "crimes".  Humans cause plenty of animal deaths, and not just for food.  Washing our hands kills millions of bacteria.

The difference, as I've already said, is sentience.

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Just because we can't hear them scream doesn't mean they don't feel the pain.  Has anyone calculated the (perhaps) millions of pounds of bacteria killed yearly for the sake of "washing our hands"?  If I remember correctly, we torture yeast to produce alcohol.


It is reasonable to assume animals have a similar existance to our own, in terms of pleasure & pain, since we have a very similar nervous system. It is not to assume plants or microorganisms do.


Quote
We gladly kill mosquitos.  Whether we walk, ride bikes, drive cars or fly in planes, we kill animals for the right to transport ourselves ... the right to walk in the woods, the right to sleep away from where we work, the right to go out with friends for a dinner and a movie, the right see the autumn foliage in the fall, and the right to live on the opposite coast (or another country) from where the rest of our relatives live so we "must" fly home for the holidays.  We're not even talking about eating to survive.  This is merely our exercise of free will.  Shoes squish bugs, cars cause road kill, airplanes strike birds, etc.  The bug splatter with car windshields and radiators alone is legendary, and we surely kill plenty of animals in the making of "bug guts removal chemicals" or simply windex or windshield washer fluid just to keep our cars "pretty".  Humans have run entire rivers dry -- rivers that don't even reach the sea anymore!! -- and killed off their many different animal populations just for the sake of filling our swimming pools, running the water while brushing our teeth, or watering our well-manicured lawns.  The number of flying insects driven to die around the millions (or is it billions) of streetlights and other outdoor lights.  Let's not pretend we live in a cutsy hobbit world except for eating meat.

The intent of an action matters. Accidentally killing a dog is not the same as murdering it; the same goes for all animals, including humans.

I agree with your point about transport. I don't own a car or fly.

Quote
I don't know the source for this morality of animal non-suffering.  Animals must not suffer, but are humans allowed to?

Depends. Do you think a King deserves the suffering of not having such extravagant food, considering it needs to be used by his fellow peasants? If you don't, well.. then I cannot convince you, no matter what I say. It might be painful for that King initially, but he'll get over it. The peasants don't get over being hungry.

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Or do such proponents also advocate human euthanisia as well as for animals?  Is non-suffering the ultimate goal?  Is that all there is to life?

Not sure what you mean about euthanisia.

It is my goal. I will persue animal rights & try to secure them until the day I die. I'm currently teaching myself about past rights movements & educating myself in the best way of going about it. Until then, & no doubt afterwards I will talk to people about animal rights, starting with veganism. It matters.

It might not be everyone's goal. Everyone is interested in justice, because it concerns desertion, fairness, basic rights. From this I think everyone could be interested in animal rights, presented correctly.

By the way - I am also for human rights. I buy fairtrade. I am volunteering next year for a counselling service.

Edit: oops.. changed "agree" to "argue"!
« Last Edit: 17/12/2009 01:48:42 by glovesforfoxes »
 

Offline Geezer

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #56 on: 14/12/2009 20:22:44 »
Anyway, I'm interested in the animal husbandry that allows a cow to have a foal.
 

Offline glovesforfoxes

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #57 on: 14/12/2009 21:11:20 »
Me too! ;D
 

Offline Don_1

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #58 on: 16/12/2009 14:42:48 »
Anyway, I'm interested in the animal husbandry that allows a cow to have a foal.

Stop horsing around.
 

Offline glovesforfoxes

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #59 on: 16/12/2009 14:55:49 »
After thinking about what you say & stand for Don, I've thought about another criticism you might be able to relate to better..

Quote
It is all very well to say consuming meat is unnecessary, but humans have been killing and eating other animals since our ancestors appeared on the Earth. I see no reason to question nature or to alter it.

Does that give me liscence to find a turtle, kill it, & eat it?

No. It doesn't. These appeals to nature essentially miss the point of veganism/animal rights movement - you can argue against every single change by arguing that it wasn't like that in the past. If that change is good, you should fight for it. If it isn't, you should accept it with grace if possible, or fight with all you can against it.

For example, I believe the conservative govt. plan to uplift a ban on hunting. Honestly, I hope they do try to go ahead with it, because it will bring animal rights back into the news in a major way. It means I can get a £70 ticket to go to London, & protest against it, & other forms of unnecessary animal cruelty & use. I will do everything I can to protest it - hunger strikes if it becomes necessary. My temporary pain I can deal with. The pain & death of the thousands of animals that will suffer when hunting is legalised again I cannot accept.
 

Offline LeeE

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #60 on: 16/12/2009 15:14:20 »
Lol - I notice that the thread title has been retrospectively changed.  It now seems that omnivores and carnivores are now fools for having evolved that way.  Who's going to volunteer to tell Bengal Tigers, salt water crocs and Great White sharks that they're just being foolish?
 

Offline glovesforfoxes

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #61 on: 16/12/2009 15:48:21 »
We don't need meat or any animal products. Part of the crux of my argument is that eating meat is unneccessary for humans (though I disagree entirely with SBCs conduct & reasoning for being pescatarian, he's still doing a good thing) & we have a conscience which means we are capable of thinking about this issue & changing. I believe we should, for the extensive reasons, many of which are still unchallenged, I have given previously.

I've already stated the logical problems with comparing different species. You have to judge each species on it's own merit, not compare them to humans. In fact, you really need to judge each creature in terms of their own merit, though you can make claims that species X are capable of doing Y, usually, sometimes you will find a member that cannot. That doesn't mean they are no longer a member of that species, it just means that they are a member of species X that cannot do Y.

For example, you could say that all humans are capable of hearing. But a person that can't hear because of a genetic defect is still a person - one quality does not define what a human is. It is many qualities, taken & viewed holistically, that makes a human a human.

Edit: clarification
« Last Edit: 16/12/2009 15:52:01 by glovesforfoxes »
 

nixietube

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #62 on: 16/12/2009 16:43:06 »
We don't need meat or any animal products. Part of the crux of my argument is that eating meat is unneccessary for humans... we have a conscience which means we are capable of thinking about this issue & changing.

Is that the benchmark? Are you certain we are the only species with the capability? What is conscience?
 

Offline rosy

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #63 on: 16/12/2009 18:16:41 »
GlovesForFoxes... where do you stand on the question of using animal models for the developement of medical treatments?
 

Ethos

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #64 on: 16/12/2009 20:57:31 »
Where do we draw the line? How about the bugs some in the undeveloped world eat? Or maybe, the tiny insects that populate the inside of mushrooms? What about bacteria and germs? For there to be any resolution to this debate, you Vegetarians need to establish the demarcation and then explan why. And what if some of your cohorts disagree about this boundry? If you can't reach a concensous, how can you expect us reason with you?

I'll give you all some advice: You eat what you want, and we carnivors will do the same. Don't come here preaching about our moral depravity because a bug is just as much a life form as a cow or pig. When you can explain why it's OK to eat a bug and not a cow, then maybe you'll garner an audience.

My 2cents..............................Ethos
 

Offline glovesforfoxes

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #65 on: 16/12/2009 23:42:49 »
We don't need meat or any animal products. Part of the crux of my argument is that eating meat is unneccessary for humans... we have a conscience which means we are capable of thinking about this issue & changing.

Is that the benchmark? Are you certain we are the only species with the capability? What is conscience?

It's my benchmark. Otherwise you get yourself into all sorts of logical possibilies that are simply unpractical (for example, trying to save every single animal from predation!)

No, I'm not certain. I'm certain that most of our species does, however.

What is conscience? Interesting question.. One that I can't sensibly answer without more thought. I will get back to you. It's shared knowledge what it is, though, without a definition - right? ;)

Edit: posted like an automatron & forgot there were 2 others posts to reply to!

Quote from: rosy
GlovesForFoxes... where do you stand on the question of using animal models for the developement of medical treatments?

I am anti-vivisectionist, & yes, I'm still studying science. Yes, it still makes me a bit nervous even admitting this to myself.. a lot of vegans come from alternative lifestyles in the first place - I have not. I believe in the power of science, it's beauty, & more importantly, the truth. I have a full commitment to it.

I also have a commitment to doing the right thing & behave as a good citizen, & to reduce pain & suffering to smallest possible I can, even if it is not possible to eliminate - not just around me, but in the world. That's why I also buy fairtrade (yes, I'm a uni student, yes, I'm poor & in debt - but most of my colleagues spend money on drinking, where I spend that little extra spare money ensuring I'm not helping people that exploit, which is far, far more important to me than getting pissed - though of course I have fun & occasionally get drunk!).

I think that background is necessary before I start the argument so you know the context of where I'm arguing from.

Okay, so. Sure the animals used in experiments might yield good results in medicine, cures for cancer, that sort of thing.

However, so could the experiments on Jews that the Nazi doctors performed at Auschwitz in the 2nd world war.

In both of these cases, the doctors were aiming to reveal information about the present in the hopes that they would glean useful information that can be used to save lives.

The problem with both of these things (I don't consider the justifications for them exactly a world apart..) is that they hope to save lives by using animals (or in the case of the Nazis, the Jewish people) as, once again, an end to human means. The animals used for experimentation already are alive, & should be kept that way for reasons I've already stated. Animals are sentient, can feel pain, did not choose to be born that way & thus deserve at the very least the right of non-interference. Believing they are there to serve humans is called "speciesist", in the same way that viewing black slaves as the tool of white people is racist. You are treating them for what they are naturally, for what they cannot help being; it is unjust.

I have no doubt that the research gleaned from animal experimentation is useful, just like no doubt the information the Germans got was useful, but the ends do not justify the means. Even without inflicting pain, animal research is about using the animal - I have the same problems with this as I do with using humans. Like I've said, there is no great divide between animals & humans. Physiologically, yes, but we all hate pain. I'm not sure if we all hate confinement, but I'll give the animals the benefit of the doubt :)

Quote from: Ethos
Where do we draw the line? How about the bugs some in the undeveloped world eat? Or maybe, the tiny insects that populate the inside of mushrooms? What about bacteria and germs?

The line is for you to draw for now. Where do you think the line is when it comes to killing things? From your attitude, I guess you think it's pretty good! I draw the line at sentiency & pain, as you will see if you read my previous posts & this one..

I give insects the benefit of the doubt when it comes to pain. Though the evidence for them feeling pain is much weaker than say, fish, or tigers, there is weak evidence. They have a nervous system, & react to stimuli. Whether or not they are conscious or not is a tricky question. I choose to believe they do, but that's all it is - a belief. Some vegans do not mind killing or using insects, but I doubt any would go out of their way to kill them.

That's new to me - there are tiny bugs inside mushrooms? I will have to look into this to see if they have a nervous system. Thanks for making me aware, I won't eat them anymore if I find they shelter life possibly capable of sentiency.

There is zero evidence for sentiency & pain in microorganisms.

Quote from: Ethos
For there to be any resolution to this debate, you Vegetarians need to establish the demarcation and then explan why.

Sorry, but vegetarianism means "not eating meat". Veganism means "not eating meat & the products of an animal, or using them as a means to human purposes". We are not a unified group any more than atheists are. You cannot be a unified group of not believing in something, & obviously there is going to be disagreement. That's a great thing.

I have already replied to your point about setting limits. Other people set their own limits, but I base mine on scientific evidence, comparisons, reason & consistently applied ethics.

Quote from: Ethos
If you can't reach a concensous, how can you expect us reason with you?

Like I've said, we are not a people with the same beliefs. There are degrees of belief in animal rights & animal welfare, like there are degrees in belief in god/s. We are not one people, do not expect us to be. What vegetarians have in common is that we do not eat animal flesh. That is it.

You can reason with me. My positions are:

Animal abolitionist (campaigning against ALL uses of animals for human means)
Vegan (do not consume or use any product derived from an animal, possibly including insects - personally I avoid any produce that uses pesticides, & all insect derived ingrediants such as the red food colouring made from crushed flies used in the majority of marshmallows, & I will refuse to kill insects, down to the smallest fly or meanest wasp)
Animal rights activist (I work for ALL animal to be granted legal protection)

Edit 2:

Quote from: Ethos
I'll give you all some advice: You eat what you want, and we carnivors will do the same. Don't come here preaching about our moral depravity because a bug is just as much a life form as a cow or pig. When you can explain why it's OK to eat a bug and not a cow, then maybe you'll garner an audience.

I missed this the first time around.

I don't believe the majority of people are morally depraved. I believe they are misled, taught to care for some animals instead of all of them for whatever reason, downright lied to, removed from the reality of animal farming & slaughter, & maybe at worse apathetic & anthropocentric. I don't believe anyone that's replied on this thread, for example, could easily murder a dog. The link between financing the killing, slavery & exploitation of animals & morality is a hard one to make - I didn't for 18 years, & after many months thought before I became vegan - I don't expect anyone here to, at least not immediately. Issues of social justice are of the highest importance, since it directly concerns people's, & by extension animal's lives.

I don't believe it's okay to eat a bug or a cow, & I've already exhaustively given the reasons I will not. That's why I garnered an audience with good questions rather than being dismissed as another dogmatic preacher. If you cannot see that, then I apologise - I cannot do much more - I, & my views, are open to the deepest of constructive criticisms. Feel free to start making some if you wish, & please, before you do, make sure you know what I have written & ensure you do not try to straw-man my arguments.
« Last Edit: 17/12/2009 02:09:23 by glovesforfoxes »
 

Ethos

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #66 on: 16/12/2009 23:50:50 »
I didn't think you had an answer........................
 

Ethos

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #67 on: 16/12/2009 23:58:58 »
Here's one for the road:All vegetarians are fools

Turn about is fair play,..................Hey?
 

Offline glovesforfoxes

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #68 on: 17/12/2009 00:00:08 »
Be patient Ethos - I'm sorry, I pressed the reply button too quickly. I tried messaging you, but obviously it did not work. I am in the process of editing the above post to reply to both you & rosy, but it takes time, energy, & not pressing the "Reply" button too hastily ;D
 

Ethos

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #69 on: 17/12/2009 00:02:35 »
Be patient Ethos - I'm sorry, I pressed the reply button too quickly. I tried messaging you, but obviously it did not work. I am in the process of editing the above post to reply to both you & rosy, but it takes time, energy, & not pressing the "Reply" button too hastily ;D
Understand my friend, I don't discuss these topics via private message. I thought we were clear about this.
 

Ethos

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #70 on: 17/12/2009 00:03:58 »
Be patient Ethos - I'm sorry, I pressed the reply button too quickly. I tried messaging you, but obviously it did not work. I am in the process of editing the above post to reply to both you & rosy, but it takes time, energy, & not pressing the "Reply" button too hastily ;D
If you'd try a little meat, You might have a little more energy...
 

Offline glovesforfoxes

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #71 on: 17/12/2009 00:12:13 »
Quote from: Ethos
If you'd try a little meat, You might have a little more energy...

Really? Interesting. I thought ATP was ATP, no matter what source it came from, but it seems I am sadly mistaken. Can you enlighten me?
 

Ethos

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #72 on: 17/12/2009 00:16:14 »
Quote from: Ethos
If you'd try a little meat, You might have a little more energy...

Really? Interesting. I thought ATP was ATP, no matter what source it came from, but it seems I am sadly mistaken. Can you enlighten me?
NO, no you don't. I'm still waiting for an answer to my earlier post. Unless you have one, I suspect you're trying skirt around it by changing the subject. No matter, the real point here is we Carnivores don't like being called fools. How about it fool.
 

Ethos

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #73 on: 17/12/2009 00:18:19 »
Plain and simple, Unless you change the title of this thread, you'll have no more participation from me...................FOOL.
 

Offline glovesforfoxes

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Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #74 on: 17/12/2009 00:24:52 »
I was not the original poster or title chooser of this topic & have actually said that I disagree with the method the original poster used to start & sustain it. I also disagree with his reasons for being pescatarian vegan (if you didn't know, a pescatarian is someone who eats sea-based life, but generally not land - though some may eat chickens, there is no real specific word for eating chickens & sea-based life, besides perhaps flexitarian, which is so broad it means nothing) which seem to be based on, or appeal to religious ideas, at least in part. Mine are based on secular ethics which scientists can appreciate, drawing comparisons to the rights movement against slavery, since it is a poignant example.

Continue insulting me without reading what I have said & I will report you to the moderators.

I am almost finished replying.

Edit: added "& sustain" for clarity, & provided an explanation of pescatarian, & of the motivation of SBCs beliefs

Edit 2: added info about SBC's POV - see below

SBC has since said via PM on another site that he is "pure vegetarian", which is the same as vegan. I apologise to him, & retract that he is a pescatarian.
« Last Edit: 17/12/2009 03:06:14 by glovesforfoxes »
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: Humans shouldn't eat meat. Do you agree ?
« Reply #74 on: 17/12/2009 00:24:52 »

 

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