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Author Topic: sodium chlorate  (Read 19840 times)

Offline itsjustme

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sodium chlorate
« on: 02/10/2005 09:26:34 »
there are some files on the internet saying that you can make sodium chlorate by electrolisising sodium chloride. here is what is says:

NaCl + 3H2O +6e- ---> NaClO3 +3H2

i have done the electrolisis and then boiled off exess water (and sodium hidroxide) and got a solid, ph was neutral. i tried combineing it with powdered sugar and lighting it but it would not light. i used a 12V sealed lead acid battery, can anyone help.


 

Offline Ylide

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Re: sodium chlorate
« Reply #1 on: 02/10/2005 12:44:41 »
You probably still had a large amount of sodium chloride in your solution which was the solid you saw.  There may or may not have been any sodium chlorate present.  Maybe you can try collecting the hydrogen gas from the reaction (if any was generated...did you observe a gas evolving?)  and using a gas law equation to calculate moles of H2 gas and thus moles of sodium chlorate you produced.  Stoichiometry will tell you if any NaCl was left.  







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Offline itsjustme

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Re: sodium chlorate
« Reply #2 on: 02/10/2005 13:01:17 »
yes, there was gas on both electrodes. can you please explain to me the gas law equation.
 

Offline anthony

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Re: sodium chlorate
« Reply #3 on: 03/10/2005 12:10:12 »
Sounds to me like you made H2 and Cl2 on the electrodes, I can't see the proposed reaction working. Just because a reaction is balanced doesn't mean it will go, not when there are other lower energy products that can be made.
 

Offline itsjustme

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Re: sodium chlorate
« Reply #4 on: 03/10/2005 13:24:56 »
how's this for a theory?
 

Offline anthony

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Re: sodium chlorate
« Reply #5 on: 04/10/2005 01:12:35 »
Well, it's not really a theory is it? There may be conditions under which the reaction might occur, but electrochemistry is rather involved and wihout the proper references it's difficult to invoke specific arguments. I can gaurentee you though, that just passing a current through salty water will make H2 (reduction) and Cl2 (oxidation).
 

Offline itsjustme

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Re: sodium chlorate
« Reply #6 on: 04/10/2005 03:39:10 »
well i am not a chemistry expert yet but i have two sources saying that it is possible. http://www.cellchem.com/docs.products-services/sodium_chlorate.htm [nofollow] and the anarchist's cookbook. For some reason the cookbook says something about a motor vehicle and sulfuric acid inside the solution. Maybe the voltage is too low?
 

Offline Ylide

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Re: sodium chlorate
« Reply #7 on: 08/10/2005 19:32:23 »
quote:
Originally posted by itsjustme

yes, there was gas on both electrodes. can you please explain to me the gas law equation.



PV=nRT

This is in any basic chemistry book.  n=# moles of the gas, which is a fucntion of the mass.  Gas laws and stochiometry are a little too involved to write up in a post here, I recommend going out to getting yoursef a chemistry textbook.

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Offline pyromaster222

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Re: sodium chlorate
« Reply #8 on: 15/10/2005 14:29:39 »
electrolysis of brine (aqueos sodium chloride) does NOT produce sodium chlorate
2 NaCl(aq) + 2 H2O(l) ----> 2 Na+(aq) + 2 OH-(aq) + H2(g) + Cl2(g)
so you get chlorine at the anode and hydrogen at the cathode and you are left with aqueous Sodium hydroxide.
if you need sodium chlorate you can buy a weedkiller that contains 53% NaClO4 then you just sift it and keep the bigger particles. That should leave you with close to 90% pure NaClO4
 

Offline a passing chemist

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Re: sodium chlorate
« Reply #9 on: 02/11/2005 21:54:51 »
Ok. sodium chloride solution DOES electrolise to sodium hypochlorite (NaClO) and hydrogen gas. you only get Cl2 if a diaphragm is used to separate the ions, otherwise the chlorine forming will immediately be reduced in situ to ClO- ions.
 NaClO4 is sodium PERchlorate, if you want NaClO3, boil a solution of NaClO, it will disproportionate to NaCl and NaClO3 (3NaClO-->2NaCl+NaClO3)
this is old nomencalture, but
ClO-  hypochlorite
ClO2- chlorite
ClO3- chlorate
ClO4- perchlorate

hope that helps
 

Offline jaydee

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Re: sodium chlorate
« Reply #10 on: 02/11/2005 23:20:53 »
"disproportionate" - that's a verb? Can't find a definition. Whatever, er, so how would you wrestle the NaCl from  the NaClO3?

(sodium hypochlorite - isn't that bleach?)
 

Offline pyromaster222

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Re: sodium chlorate
« Reply #11 on: 18/11/2005 19:26:07 »
sodium chlorate is easy to get anyway its potassium perchlorate thats a pain in the arse.
 

Offline itsjustme

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Re: sodium chlorate
« Reply #12 on: 24/12/2005 07:28:47 »
quote:
Whatever, er, so how would you wrestle the NaCl from the NaClO3?

(sodium hypochlorite - isn't that bleach?)


The best way to separate them is solubility: this is one about potassium chlorate and chloride. but i am sure you could find one about sodium chloride and chlorate (i cant). just before i begin may i just say that sodium chlorate and chloride is much different from potassium chlorate and chloride, sodium chlorate is much more soluble than its chloride so you would want to dispose of the percipitate and boil off the water. You should dissolve the chlorate/chloride mix into water and then collect the one chlorate.

Yes sodium hyperchlorite is bleach but it is very dilue in bleech solutions.
 

Offline rafale

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Re: sodium chlorate
« Reply #13 on: 01/01/2006 22:48:35 »
I found this on wikipedia.org

Sodium chloride NaCl: solubility 35.9 g/100 ml (25 C),
Sodium chlorate NaClO3: solubility 101.0 g/100 ml (20 C).

It's different from potassium ch.

NaClO3 can be made by electrolisising sodium chloride, you have to do it by approx. 40 C or more. It can also be synthesised by passing chlorine gas to a hot sodium hydroxide solution. It then purified by crystallization.

Sources:
newbielink:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_chloride [nonactive]
newbielink:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hypochlorite [nonactive]
newbielink:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_chlorate [nonactive]

« Last Edit: 04/02/2006 17:43:24 by rafale »
 

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Re: sodium chlorate
« Reply #13 on: 01/01/2006 22:48:35 »

 

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