The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: Way should there not be a center of the universe?  (Read 8216 times)

Offline Ron Hughes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 363
    • View Profile
Way should there not be a center of the universe?
« Reply #25 on: 07/12/2009 03:52:18 »
Phys, let's suppose that after the explosion of radiation from the BB that no matter formed. That radiation is space and space is expanding. This would suggest if we could rewind that radiation in reverse it would go to a particular point with respect to that radiation. We can not say that point is relative to anything outside the expanding sphere but it is relative to the space being created.
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1451
  • Thanked: 2 times
  • http://www.facebook.com/#/profile.php?ref=profile&
    • View Profile
    • Time Theory
Way should there not be a center of the universe?
« Reply #26 on: 07/12/2009 03:58:21 »
Phys, let's suppose that after the explosion of radiation from the BB that no matter formed. That radiation is space and space is expanding. This would suggest if we could rewind that radiation in reverse it would go to a particular point with respect to that radiation. We can not say that point is relative to anything outside the expanding sphere but it is relative to the space being created.

Except space itself expands uniformly, and so does the matter... or in this case photons... the photons do not expand, it's the spacetime they travel in which expands which mean's that there is no center. Even if you took everything back a few seconds after big bang, you would not be able to (and there is that word again) destinguish where the big bang had occured.
 

Offline Ron Hughes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 363
    • View Profile
Way should there not be a center of the universe?
« Reply #27 on: 07/12/2009 23:47:38 »
And you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the wavelength of light does not get longer as it propagates away from it's source?
You can claim that my premise is flawed and I claim yours to be flawed, an impasse. Mine is based on logic, yours is based on what someone has told you.
 

Offline PhysBang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 588
  • Thanked: 14 times
    • View Profile
Way should there not be a center of the universe?
« Reply #28 on: 08/12/2009 00:38:24 »
And you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the wavelength of light does not get longer as it propagates away from it's source?
You can claim that my premise is flawed and I claim yours to be flawed, an impasse. Mine is based on logic, yours is based on what someone has told you.
You might call it logic, but I call it just making stuff up.
 

Offline Ron Hughes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 363
    • View Profile
Way should there not be a center of the universe?
« Reply #29 on: 08/12/2009 16:34:13 »
Phys, you didn't respond to the first part of my reply?
 

Offline PhysBang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 588
  • Thanked: 14 times
    • View Profile
Way should there not be a center of the universe?
« Reply #30 on: 08/12/2009 16:52:10 »
Phys, let's suppose that after the explosion of radiation from the BB that no matter formed. That radiation is space and space is expanding. This would suggest if we could rewind that radiation in reverse it would go to a particular point with respect to that radiation. We can not say that point is relative to anything outside the expanding sphere but it is relative to the space being created.
OK, first there is no explosion of radiation from the Big Bang. There is no Big Bang. There are many theories about what might be the origin of the universe, but none of these has been established to any great degree. The Big Bang theory that scientists actually believe starts from a time when the universe exists in a given state and then tracks the history of the universe from there.

Second, if we track any expansion back, we still cannot find a single point that all the expansion started from. The geometry simply doesn't work like that. (One has to turn to differential geometry to understand this in detail.) As we rewind the clock, we see that the average distance between everything gets smaller. Things do not contract to a point, they just contract.
 

Online yor_on

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 11987
  • Thanked: 4 times
  • (Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
    • View Profile
Way should there not be a center of the universe?
« Reply #31 on: 08/12/2009 21:21:15 »
Nice one Fozzie.

The analogy is not bad but we have to remember that it is layer on layer on layer as the balloon can be seen as a 'two dimensional' description of a three dimensional reality.

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/GR/centre.html


Sorry... what? I wonder... if i can actually manage sometimes to try and remain scientific when i have people like yourself coaching on psuedoscientific ideologies. Now don't get me wrong, i love to think outside the box, but i pointed out that he or she was wrong. I don't need yourself to say erreneous things like ''nice one fozzie'' - when there was nothing correct about the proposal. By doing this, you are intentionally-misleading people.

Did you check the link. Whatever 'unscientificity' you found you can take up with Philip Gibbs. I'm sure you can teach him how to really understand physics mr. S.

Until then
Cheers.
 

Offline Ron Hughes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 363
    • View Profile
Way should there not be a center of the universe?
« Reply #32 on: 08/12/2009 22:01:02 »
Ok phys, I think I understand your position. If the Universe had no beginning your position is correct. Sounds like you believe in a steady state? A few days ago I had a really weird thought that would allow for a multiverse situation. I'll type up the post in the next couple of days.
 

Offline PhysBang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 588
  • Thanked: 14 times
    • View Profile
Way should there not be a center of the universe?
« Reply #33 on: 08/12/2009 23:13:35 »
Ok phys, I think I understand your position. If the Universe had no beginning your position is correct. Sounds like you believe in a steady state? A few days ago I had a really weird thought that would allow for a multiverse situation. I'll type up the post in the next couple of days.
I don't believe in the steady state theory. I believe in the Big Bang theory. The Big bang theory does not actually include a big bang.
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Way should there not be a center of the universe?
« Reply #33 on: 08/12/2009 23:13:35 »

 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums