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Author Topic: Does mass slowing time explain the expanding Universe?  (Read 6267 times)

Alan Bennett

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Alan Bennett  asked the Naked Scientists:
   
If we got close to a black hole time would slow down . If mass slows time, would time speed up as the universe expands i.e. the reverse?

If the answer is yes, would this explain the  accelerating expansion of the universe?
 
Alan Bennett
Yandina, Queensland, Australia.

What do you think?


 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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Does mass slowing time explain the expanding Universe?
« Reply #1 on: 04/12/2009 09:50:24 »
Acually, if we could exist right to the very last moments of the future cone of the universe - the last instants will seem as though they would last for 20,000 years! If anything, time slows down as the universe speeds up.

The reason for this is because everything remains relative. I hope i understood your question correctly.
 

Offline yor_on

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Does mass slowing time explain the expanding Universe?
« Reply #2 on: 04/12/2009 20:18:17 »
It's a question without a meaningful answer. Look at it this way. No matter :) where you are. At the event horizon of a black hole or in 'deep space' your heartbeat as measured by your clock will be the same. So you will be perceived to age just the same everywhere by those around you.

The only time the 'Twin paradox' comes into play is when you compare an accelerated frame against a non accelerated (twin paradox) and only when you come back to the original non accelerated frame.
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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Does mass slowing time explain the expanding Universe?
« Reply #3 on: 04/12/2009 21:49:47 »
It's a question without a meaningful answer. Look at it this way. No matter :) where you are. At the event horizon of a black hole or in 'deep space' your heartbeat as measured by your clock will be the same. So you will be perceived to age just the same everywhere by those around you.

The only time the 'Twin paradox' comes into play is when you compare an accelerated frame against a non accelerated (twin paradox) and only when you come back to the original non accelerated frame.

Yes by theory. We are yet to see the extreem effects of time delay.
 

Offline Geezer

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Does mass slowing time explain the expanding Universe?
« Reply #4 on: 04/12/2009 22:14:44 »
It's a question without a meaningful answer. Look at it this way. No matter :) where you are. At the event horizon of a black hole or in 'deep space' your heartbeat as measured by your clock will be the same. So you will be perceived to age just the same everywhere by those around you.

The only time the 'Twin paradox' comes into play is when you compare an accelerated frame against a non accelerated (twin paradox) and only when you come back to the original non accelerated frame.

Yes by theory. We are yet to see the extreem effects of time delay.

I think you will find some important information in this article. Time difference is not speculation. It is continuously observed. Also, speed is very important, not just acceleration.

http://www.metaresearch.org/cosmology/gps-relativity.asp
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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Does mass slowing time explain the expanding Universe?
« Reply #5 on: 04/12/2009 22:41:16 »
It's a question without a meaningful answer. Look at it this way. No matter :) where you are. At the event horizon of a black hole or in 'deep space' your heartbeat as measured by your clock will be the same. So you will be perceived to age just the same everywhere by those around you.

The only time the 'Twin paradox' comes into play is when you compare an accelerated frame against a non accelerated (twin paradox) and only when you come back to the original non accelerated frame.

Yes by theory. We are yet to see the extreem effects of time delay.

I think you will find some important information in this article. Time difference is not speculation. It is continuously observed. Also, speed is very important, not just acceleration.

http://www.metaresearch.org/cosmology/gps-relativity.asp

I know about time delay in mesons - that's enough said that i know what i am talking about. I am now questioning mascroscopic bodies. We have yet to varify (and please listen closely) the effects of an extreem time delay - on the scale of macroscopic bodies.
 

Offline Geezer

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« Reply #6 on: 04/12/2009 23:18:16 »
MrS said: "We are yet to see the extreem(sic) effects of time delay."

The reference I provided does describe quite extreme time differences. Nanoseconds are very significant, and they are not difficult to measure. Electronic systems operate at much finer granularity.

Is there published material to support the "macroscopic" effect you speak of? Is it theory or speculation?
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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« Reply #7 on: 04/12/2009 23:25:11 »
A speculation at best - (the extreemity is referred of course only to macroscopic events). Not particles in this case. I know of these experiments conducted on them.
 

Offline Geezer

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« Reply #8 on: 05/12/2009 03:25:50 »
It might be a bit embarrasing if some of a persons atoms that were not too tightly bound to the macroscopic whole were at a different age from the other atoms that made up the person.
 

Offline PhysBang

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« Reply #9 on: 05/12/2009 13:45:28 »
Evidence of time delay in supernovae have been reported in detail in Goldhaber et al. (The Astrophysical Journal, 558:359-368, 2001 September 1) and in Blondin et al. (The Astrophysical Journal, 682:724-736, 2008 August 1) each using a different method.
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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« Reply #10 on: 05/12/2009 18:59:44 »
Evidence of time delay in supernovae have been reported in detail in Goldhaber et al. (The Astrophysical Journal, 558:359-368, 2001 September 1) and in Blondin et al. (The Astrophysical Journal, 682:724-736, 2008 August 1) each using a different method.

They are macroscopic bodies which have emmitted subatomic particles... how does the paper hold against my conviction?
 

Offline Geezer

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« Reply #11 on: 06/12/2009 04:46:17 »
Maybe you should read the paper.
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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« Reply #12 on: 06/12/2009 10:21:00 »
When i have time, i will.
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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« Reply #13 on: 06/12/2009 11:55:40 »
I'm sorry Geezer, but am i missing something in your link... http://www.metaresearch.org/cosmology/gps-relativity.asp

All it is saying to me that they have measured time delay for atomic clocks in GPS. I know this already.

What part of ''i would like to see this happen at an organic scale'' does one not seem to understand. I am not questioning time delay, or length contraction, or any of the sort.
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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Does mass slowing time explain the expanding Universe?
« Reply #14 on: 06/12/2009 11:57:15 »
Perhaps subliminally though i am questioning the endurance of time travel (at relativistic speeds) for human beings or any carbon organic system.
 

Offline Geezer

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« Reply #15 on: 06/12/2009 19:17:55 »
I'm sorry Geezer, but am i missing something in your link... http://www.metaresearch.org/cosmology/gps-relativity.asp

All it is saying to me that they have measured time delay for atomic clocks in GPS. I know this already.

What part of ''i would like to see this happen at an organic scale'' does one not seem to understand. I am not questioning time delay, or length contraction, or any of the sort.

er, MrS, I can't find any reference to "organic scale" anywhere in this thread prior to the post quoted above. Perhaps you were referring to a different thread?
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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« Reply #16 on: 06/12/2009 19:46:39 »
Maybe. Perhaps.
 

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« Reply #17 on: 06/12/2009 19:48:17 »
A speculation at best - (the extreemity is referred of course only to macroscopic events). Not particles in this case. I know of these experiments conducted on them.

Nope, i was hinting that in this post. You have two threads with me and you discussing this. It's not as vague as you are seemingly making this out.
 

Offline PhysBang

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« Reply #18 on: 06/12/2009 20:04:47 »
I'm sorry Geezer, but am i missing something in your link... http://www.metaresearch.org/cosmology/gps-relativity.asp

All it is saying to me that they have measured time delay for atomic clocks in GPS. I know this already.

What part of ''i would like to see this happen at an organic scale'' does one not seem to understand. I am not questioning time delay, or length contraction, or any of the sort.
What are you doing? Are you questioning whether there is ever time dilation for objects larger than subatomic particles? If so, why have you not bothered to read the most recent papers demonstrating time dilation for things larger than stars?
 

Offline Geezer

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« Reply #19 on: 06/12/2009 21:41:55 »
A speculation at best - (the extreemity is referred of course only to macroscopic events). Not particles in this case. I know of these experiments conducted on them.

Nope, i was hinting that in this post. You have two threads with me and you discussing this. It's not as vague as you are seemingly making this out.

Correct. There is another thread where we discussed "macroscopic scale" and that led to a discussion that limits the effect to organic objects.
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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« Reply #20 on: 07/12/2009 03:25:28 »
I'm sorry Geezer, but am i missing something in your link... http://www.metaresearch.org/cosmology/gps-relativity.asp

All it is saying to me that they have measured time delay for atomic clocks in GPS. I know this already.

What part of ''i would like to see this happen at an organic scale'' does one not seem to understand. I am not questioning time delay, or length contraction, or any of the sort.
What are you doing? Are you questioning whether there is ever time dilation for objects larger than subatomic particles? If so, why have you not bothered to read the most recent papers demonstrating time dilation for things larger than stars?
No - IF YOU READ WHAT HAS BEEN SAID - I've made it more than clear that i am talking about human endurance. I never once questioned the experimental FACT of time delay, or length contraction or any of the sort.

 

Offline PhysBang

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« Reply #21 on: 07/12/2009 12:35:04 »
I've read the thread, and I have no idea what you mean by "human endurance".
 

Offline yor_on

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Does mass slowing time explain the expanding Universe?
« Reply #22 on: 08/12/2009 21:35:43 »
Look mr S.

As soon there are actual experiments verifying a theory it moves from that to a fact. As Geezer states GPS do prove 'relativity of time'

If you don't like that you will have to prove why?
Like explaining the GPS results and the way muon's can travel so far.
 
Among those other results too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation#Experimental_confirmation
« Last Edit: 09/12/2009 05:36:14 by yor_on »
 

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Does mass slowing time explain the expanding Universe?
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