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Author Topic: Our fate with the Large Hadron Collider?  (Read 11715 times)

Offline grizelda

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Our fate with the Large Hadron Collider?
« on: 08/12/2009 10:59:35 »
The history of civilization is 10000 religions leading their adherents to extinction in religious wars. Now, we face the last extinction event. The wave function describes subatomic entities as waves. In order to be observed as particles, the wave function must collapse. But the wave function is not predicated to collapse, therefore no observation of subatomic particles can be made. Yet, observations are made. The only factor causing the collapse of the wave function must be the observation itself. In order for the Higg's field to exist, the Higg's particle must be observed in the Large Hadron Collider. The Higg's field's function is to destroy and recycle the universe. Immediately after being observed ( created ) the Higg's field will instantly inflate to the size of the universe, representing a force which will strip the characteristics from the elementary particles, leaving a universe which is supersymmetric, has zero entropy and is timeless. The field will then cool and undergo a phase change and collapse which will give back the characteristics to the particles and the new universe will be reborn. The present universe will no longer exist, nor ever have existed. The human race which insists on doing this in the face of its own extinction must be considered to have been bred to have a death wish by its religions, the only entities capable of doing so.   
« Last Edit: 25/12/2009 09:10:33 by grizelda »


 

Offline Dimi

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Re: Our fate with the Large Hadron Collider?
« Reply #1 on: 08/12/2009 21:35:02 »
Yes.

Where does religion fit here?
 

Offline grizelda

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Re: Our fate with the Large Hadron Collider?
« Reply #2 on: 08/12/2009 21:57:49 »
All religions do eugenics. They control the breeding of their adherents through control of their right to marriage in the religion. Only mates acceptable to the administration are allowed these procreative rights. The same way you would breed cattle. The fact that the populace is allowing the LHC to destroy the universe can only be because they have been bred to want to die (rebirth, reincarnation, afterlife etc.)
 

Offline Don_1

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Re: Our fate with the Large Hadron Collider?
« Reply #3 on: 09/12/2009 11:23:26 »
.... The fact that the populace is allowing the LHC to destroy the universe can only be because they have been bred to want to die (rebirth, reincarnation, afterlife etc.)

Doomed, doomed I tell you, we're all doomed.
 

Offline BenV

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Re: Our fate with the Large Hadron Collider?
« Reply #4 on: 09/12/2009 11:25:45 »
The fact that the populace is allowing the LHC to destroy the universe can only be because they have been bred to want to die (rebirth, reincarnation, afterlife etc.)

Or because they don't think it will destroy the universe?
 

Offline grizelda

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Re: Our fate with the Large Hadron Collider?
« Reply #5 on: 09/12/2009 11:39:58 »
You are right they don't think. Eugenics does that to people. It would be impolite to call them subhumans so zombies will do. Maybe the universe has to end because zombies are incapable of observing it, no brains and all.
 

Offline Nizzle

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Re: Our fate with the Large Hadron Collider?
« Reply #6 on: 09/12/2009 12:41:31 »
What you describe in the opening post as the end of the universe and time as we know it, I can live with it.. I only wish that my inevitable death, when it comes, is quick and painless, so if you're right, I have my wish :P

On the other hand, if you're wrong, that would be a big step forward in mankind's understanding of the universe and no harm will be done.

Looks like a win-win to me ;)
 

Offline Vern

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Re: Our fate with the Large Hadron Collider?
« Reply #7 on: 09/12/2009 12:46:47 »
Well, at least in this doom-saying I don't see the profit link. In others, such as the global warming scam, I see the demand to transfer hundreds of billions of dollars from nations that have it to nations that don't. Of course the middlemen who facilitate the transfer get to pocket a huge portion of the flow.

That is how the world works these days. It is what happens when you educate the criminal mind.
« Last Edit: 09/12/2009 12:49:09 by Vern »
 

Offline Madidus_Scientia

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Re: Our fate with the Large Hadron Collider?
« Reply #8 on: 09/12/2009 17:05:32 »
Quote
Immediately after being observed ( created ) the Higg's field will instantly inflate to the size of the universe, representing a force which will strip the characteristics from the elementary particles, leaving a universe which is supersymmetric, has zero entropy and is timeless.

This is an extraordinary claim and you will need to provide extraordinary evidence.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Our fate with the Large Hadron Collider?
« Reply #9 on: 09/12/2009 19:11:38 »
You are right they don't think. Eugenics does that to people. It would be impolite to call them subhumans so zombies will do. Maybe the universe has to end because zombies are incapable of observing it, no brains and all.
Actually, some of us do think.
In particular we think about things like "will the LHC end the universe?" and, because we are quite well informed, we realise that it won't.
If colisions of that energy could bring about the end of the world then they already would have because there are lots of similar collisions due to cosmic rays.
 Perhaps Grizelda, before you say people don't think you should, err, well..  think.
 

Offline grizelda

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Re: Our fate with the Large Hadron Collider?
« Reply #10 on: 09/12/2009 21:10:07 »
Yeah, there are two objections to this theory. One is that I don't understand quantum mechanics, the other is that Higg's particles are created all the time in cosmic ray collisions. First, nobody understands quantum mechanics, or chaos, or turbulence or randomness, its just part of nature so don't blame me.
Second, since there are no observations of Higg's particles being created by cosmic ray collisions, then they have never existed, since being observed is a necessary parameter of their existence. I'm just pointing out the obvious consequences of this science, I'm sure I want to die as much as the next guy, but not yet.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Our fate with the Large Hadron Collider?
« Reply #11 on: 09/12/2009 22:06:12 »
It doesn't matter what you understand.
The experiment has been done countless times already by nature and the universe is still here.
The only difference the LHC makes is that we are doing it deliberately so we can look at the bits.
This statement "being observed is a necessary parameter of their existence" is false.
Most things that have existed have not ever been observed.
 

Offline witsend

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Re: Our fate with the Large Hadron Collider?
« Reply #12 on: 10/12/2009 02:04:00 »
grizelda - I'm fascinated by this thread topic.  If I may add my tuppence worth - I think you're right where you say that no-one understands quantum physics.  It's tailor made on premises that can never quite be established.  Is it the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle?  Something like that.  So.  If it's a partial theory - then hopefully some laws are still out there that will resolve this paradox.  I do hope so.  I'm sure the world is straining under burgeoning population numbers - growing exponentially - and we're all alarmed at where the upper limits will be established.  Quite scarey really. No wonder a growing sense of doom. Hope the definitive experiment doesn't change things too radically.  And very brave of you to define this consequence.  Had no idea of this.  It would be very nice if we could all come out at the other side as enlightened beings.  Make a welcome change from where we are at the moment. 
 

Offline glovesforfoxes

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Re: Our fate with the Large Hadron Collider?
« Reply #13 on: 10/12/2009 02:59:32 »
There has been a pretty constant sense of impending doom since the beginning of civilisation I reckon. Today's is just much more visible & realistic (in our heads) to us.

'Til there's a real threat, I won't worry about it. & once there is, I doubt I'll be able to do anything about it anyway - it'll be a collective effort to stop threat x involving people much smarter & in much higher positions than I am.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Our fate with the Large Hadron Collider?
« Reply #14 on: 10/12/2009 07:09:07 »
"It's tailor made on premises that can never quite be established.  Is it the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle?"
It has been verified to about 12 significant figures.
 

Offline witsend

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Re: Our fate with the Large Hadron Collider?
« Reply #15 on: 10/12/2009 17:06:24 »

It has been verified to about 12 significant figures.

WHAT has been verified? 
 

Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Our fate with the Large Hadron Collider?
« Reply #16 on: 10/12/2009 19:54:49 »
Take your pick, quantum mechanics and the uncertainty principle have both been experimentally verified.
It's just silly to say they can't be established. It's true, but only in the same way that I can't verify in advance that the sun will rise tomorrow. Strictly speaking all the rules might change tomorrow, but it's not helpful to bet on it.
 

Offline grizelda

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Re: Our fate with the Large Hadron Collider?
« Reply #17 on: 11/12/2009 10:50:02 »
Alternative theories of the wave function avoid the necessity of observations causing its collapse by positing a multiverse with zillions of alternate universes paralleling this one. Something more unprovable than the wildest religious belief. It is approved by all the current high priests of physics today but it offends my sense of Occam. At best they can tell me how many universes can dance on the head of a pin. Belief is not a scientific concept. Thousands of years of religious breeding inculcated it into our genes, mostly by murdering unbelievers. Physicists are getting nice fat paychecks to do this stuff and speak french. It's the only game left in town so they're playing it without regard for the consequences. Heck, I'd do it myself for the money, but I wouldn't speak french. I've got my principles.
 

Offline BenV

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Re: Our fate with the Large Hadron Collider?
« Reply #18 on: 11/12/2009 11:07:39 »
Alternative theories of the wave function avoid the necessity of observations causing its collapse by positing a multiverse with zillions of alternate universes paralleling this one. Something more unprovable than the wildest religious belief. It is approved by all the current high priests of physics today but it offends my sense of Occam.

I thought the many universes hypothesis was considered by physicists to be mathematically sound, but almost certainly not an accurate description of reality?
 

Offline witsend

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Re: Our fate with the Large Hadron Collider?
« Reply #19 on: 11/12/2009 14:12:40 »
Alternative theories of the wave function avoid the necessity of observations causing its collapse by positing a multiverse with zillions of alternate universes paralleling this one. Something more unprovable than the wildest religious belief. It is approved by all the current high priests of physics today but it offends my sense of Occam. At best they can tell me how many universes can dance on the head of a pin. Belief is not a scientific concept. Thousands of years of religious breeding inculcated it into our genes, mostly by murdering unbelievers. Physicists are getting nice fat paychecks to do this stuff and speak french. It's the only game left in town so they're playing it without regard for the consequences. Heck, I'd do it myself for the money, but I wouldn't speak french. I've got my principles.

Grizelda - such irreverence????  LOL.  Delighted to find someone with the temerity to question the absurdities of our excessively learned and pompous.  I assumed that I was fighting a lonely battle here.  Knew this thread held promise.  WELCOME TO THE NAKED SCIENTITS.  The problem is that most of the contributors here use the unsuspecting contributor as ego fodder.  Hang in there.  This is definitely the start of something that may become a discussion.  Here's hoping.
 

Offline Madidus_Scientia

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Re: Our fate with the Large Hadron Collider?
« Reply #20 on: 11/12/2009 14:22:02 »
witsend, have you ever thought that maybe it is not the attitude of the other contributors that cause you to become what you percieve as 'ego fodder', but your own that is the problem?
 

Offline witsend

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Re: Our fate with the Large Hadron Collider?
« Reply #21 on: 11/12/2009 14:59:29 »
witsend, have you ever thought that maybe it is not the attitude of the other contributors that cause you to become what you percieve as 'ego fodder', but your own that is the problem?

No - is the short answer.  The problem I have is insurmountable.  I have an alternative theory that is now substantially proven and it defies all known classical and quantum theories.  To its credit it marries quite nicely with dark energy and dark matter.  And we all know how difficult it is to change a mindset - especially when it's as entrenched as quantum and classical studies.  But I don't think this thread is meant to be a discussion of my ideas.  It's about grizelda's.  And they're interesting. 

I remain open-minded, adventurous, enquiring and approachable.  And I'm happy to tackle the discussion of anything at all - provided it involves some departure from hackneyed regurgitated nonsense.  LOL
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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Re: Our fate with the Large Hadron Collider?
« Reply #22 on: 11/12/2009 15:21:26 »
Could you apply this in my question in the thread below wit?
 

Offline witsend

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Re: Our fate with the Large Hadron Collider?
« Reply #23 on: 11/12/2009 15:27:40 »
BenV - The multiuniverse is seriously proposed having any number of dimensions upwards of 11.  The implications - in broad terms - suggests that many dimensions co-exist and even interchage with each other.  It sounds vague and is.  But it's based on the discovery of a system that has the real merit of reaching a unifying principle.  And in as much as it gets there it's got to be a good thing.  The trouble with string theories is that no-one has found those strings.  I think popular opinion on this is to envisage it as a formwork structure like scaffolding.  Somehow our known reality is pegged onto that background structure.

My own take is that Dark matter and Dark energy are somehow linked with this 'fabric behind the tapestry'.  And I also think that this could be linked to those earlier unpopular theories relating to a universal aether. I believe this will eventually be resolved if they find a particle that fits with the known requirements of dark matter.  But the search continues.  No such candidate thus far - to the best of my knowledge.  Certainly no candidates within the known range of particles.  They're looking for something unique and thus far undiscovered.  Need to conform to a WIMP (Weakly Interacting Massive Particle).  But it also has to be cold and entirely invisible.
 

Offline witsend

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Re: Our fate with the Large Hadron Collider?
« Reply #24 on: 11/12/2009 15:30:33 »
Could you apply this in my question in the thread below wit?

LOL Mr Scientist.  I'm hugely amused but am not sure about the others on this thread. 
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: Our fate with the Large Hadron Collider?
« Reply #24 on: 11/12/2009 15:30:33 »

 

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