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Author Topic: what causes the force of gravity?  (Read 8694 times)

Offline lfmorgan

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what causes the force of gravity?
« on: 24/12/2009 16:17:40 »
My long studied answer as Physicist and Systems Engineer is that Gravity is increasingly dense electron flow toward the central black hole of the Earth which is a maximum density spherical collection of closed looped electrons (forming a maximum density outer surface electron orbit shell) whose radius is still increasing toward a limit, which when reached will cause the Earth to loose all its visible surface matter to outer space such that said matter cannot return to the planet. That is Earth has a precribed-by-nature[physics law]life time.


 

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Re: what causes the force of gravity?
« Reply #1 on: 24/12/2009 16:23:45 »
My long studied answer as Physicist and Systems Engineer is that Gravity is increasingly dense electron flow toward the central black hole of the Earth which is a maximum density spherical collection of closed looped electrons (forming a maximum density outer surface electron orbit shell) whose radius is still increasing toward a limit, which when reached will cause the Earth to loose all its visible surface matter to outer space such that said matter cannot return to the planet. That is Earth has a precribed-by-nature[physics law]life time.
Absolute hog wash...................
 

Offline Vern

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Re: what causes the force of gravity?
« Reply #2 on: 24/12/2009 16:54:12 »
Quote
My long studied answer as Physicist and Systems Engineer
A physicist would have trouble fitting the rest of your post to this part.
 

Offline Webo

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Re: what causes the force of gravity?
« Reply #3 on: 25/12/2009 15:01:27 »
Many theories on it...what is explained is the effects of gravity...what is unexplained is what is gravity? Energy at rest yes however how does quantum mechanics and string theory can show the same results with different theories?
 

Offline lfmorgan

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what causes the force of gravity?
« Reply #4 on: 06/01/2010 15:51:36 »
My long studied answer as Physicist and Systems Engineer is that Gravity is increasingly dense electron flow toward the central black hole of the Earth which is a maximum density spherical collection of closed looped electrons (forming a maximum density outer surface electron orbit shell) whose radius is still increasing toward a limit, which when reached will cause the Earth to loose all its visible surface matter to outer space such that said matter cannot return to the planet. That is Earth has a precribed-by-nature[physics law]life time.
---as of 6 Jan 2010 no one has proved me wrong just random don't get it replies so far. LFM
 

Offline lfmorgan

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what causes the force of gravity?
« Reply #5 on: 06/01/2010 15:58:12 »
actually the the full theory book mansuscript that expains this theory has been web published at


newbielink:http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://www.scribd.com/doc/24720388/A-Plain-Language-Model-of-the-Universe-1999-by-L-Frank-Morgan&ct=ga&cd=_RnaqmbA9Vg&usg=AFQjCNFrae3cOwfrHpiE1QA3WTLheIk1xQ [nonactive]



 

Offline Tony_82

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what causes the force of gravity?
« Reply #6 on: 06/01/2010 17:03:51 »
My apologies, I have not read your full theory at the link above; but I would be interested in how time fits into your theory.

As I understand it, gravity slows down time, how does increasingly dense electron flow slow down time?
 

Offline Vern

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what causes the force of gravity?
« Reply #7 on: 07/01/2010 13:23:32 »
I have not yet found a coherent thought in it that might even be discussed. Somehow this magical electron, what ever your view of that is, is expanding to consume the earth?

There is a concept in this gravity notion that is ready for someone to investigate. Gravity slows time. Acceleration has time as a component. Therefore gravity slows acceleration. Then gravity affects gravity the way gravity affects time. This fact prohibits gravitational singularities. That means that there can be no black holes. That also means there could not be a big bang.

Given these facts, which are simple mathematical facts the same as one plus one is two, why do people still talk of black holes and big bangs?

This also means that GR is incomplete because it fails to account for gravitational affects upon gravity. It should not be too difficult for someone to adjust GR to account for this. So adjusted, we might understand a little better what is happening in the universe.

« Last Edit: 07/01/2010 13:37:30 by Vern »
 

Offline Tony_82

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what causes the force of gravity?
« Reply #8 on: 07/01/2010 16:00:18 »
I thought everyone accepted that black holes existed, after they observed the motion of nearby stars at the centre of the milky way. As for the big bang, I do believe it is more likely than unlikely it happened, as for what came out and what form it came out in, who knows, it maybe unlike anything we see in today's universe.

As for time and acceleration, off the top of my head, I thought as matter accelerates, time slows down for anything on or in the matter, and when the matter gets to the speed of light, anymore energy put into the acceleration of the matter will be converted to mass and the matter will just get heavier.

When you say "gravity slows acceleration", not to sure if I follow you; if I through a ball up in the air, on earth gravity will slow the ball down, then pull it back down to earth.

If I through a ball in free space, the ball will continue at the same speed and trajectory, until it comes into contact with something.

On earth and in free space, if I through a ball at the speed of light, time on the ball will slow down, but the ball on earth will slow down and time will turn back to normal, but the one in free space will continue to have the time slowed down until the speed is reduced.

But I don't believe time ever stops..
 

Offline Vern

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what causes the force of gravity?
« Reply #9 on: 07/01/2010 20:16:11 »
Quote
I thought everyone accepted that black holes existed, after they observed the motion of nearby stars at the centre of the milky way. As for the big bang, I do believe it is more likely than unlikely it happened, as for what came out and what form it came out in, who knows, it maybe unlike anything we see in today's universe.
When you try to model the formation of a black hole from an accretion disk, you find that it is not possible. The arithmetic does not work when you factor in relativity phenomena.

We know that something very dense is at the centre of the Milky Way Galaxy. We don't know that it is a Black Hole that contains a singularity.
 

Offline Tony_82

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what causes the force of gravity?
« Reply #10 on: 08/01/2010 14:40:06 »
Maybe this should be our motto: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

Besides, he answered the question that he asked.  So?

Who me or L F Morgan, I'm still waiting for my answer. I had a skim through the 413 pages on the plain Language Model of the Universe 1999 by L Frank Morgan, and I can't see anything about time in there?
 

Offline yor_on

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what causes the force of gravity?
« Reply #11 on: 22/04/2010 21:17:36 »
Tony, if it was Vern you meant, the answer, for those like me devoid of math, is that if you accelerate matter it will get a increasing momentum, or, relative mass as we're talking 'matter' specifically here. That mass building will stop any object of matter from ever being able to expend enough energy to propel itself to the speed of light (in a vacuum).
==

Mathematically.

The mass of an object in motion is

            m0
m =  ----------------
       sqrt(1-v2/c2)

where m0 is the rest mass, v is the velocity of the object, and c is the speed of light.
(and sqrt represents the square root function)

As you can see, as v approaches c, v2/c2 approaches 1, and the mass of the object approaches infinity. Clearly an object with infinite mass would be trouble, thus it is speculated that objects with a non-zero rest mass cannot travel faster than light.

=== Here.
 


When Vern writes "Gravity slows time. Acceleration has time as a component. Therefore gravity slows acceleration. Then gravity affects gravity the way gravity affects time." I lose it somewhat too?

Gravity definitely slows time, as observed by someone outside that gravitational field, but for those inside it it doesn't. What they will see is that, although their time is as always, the time outside their so called 'frame of reference' aka a neutronstar :) f.ex 'speeds up'. but as far as they can measure inside the time they have locally is the same as it was on Earth.

As for acceleration, that is constantly expending energy, as fast as f.ex that ball leaves your hand it has stopped accelerating, be it on Earth or in space. In space it will as you say just 'keep on' uniformly moving until it meets gravitational forces or other hinders. On Earth it will obey gravity and decelerate as it meets the friction of air and gravity, expecting that you throw it with some gusto :)

There is the argument that you can accelerate down a gravity well though without expending any energy of your own, which contradicts my idea above, as nothing then is seen to expend energy, neither you nor gravity. But acceleration and 'free falling' is to me two different things in that 'free falling' down that gravity well you will be weightless, at all times. At no time will there be any acceleration noticed for you inside that famous 'black box' :). When we discuss all other types of acceleration you will feel 'gravity' tug on you. 

The more gravity a object have the more 'acceleration' you might expect. Earth's acceleration due to gravity is 9.8 m/s but the moons is a puny 1.6 m/s (surface). So the more invariant mass (matter) the higher the acceleration as well as gravity. Gravity and acceleration.
===
   
 

where

      g = acceleration due to gravity (m/s or ft/s)
      G = universal gravitational constant (m/kg/s or ft/slug/s)
      M = mass of the body (kg or slug)
      r = radius of the body (m or ft)

The value of G is known and has been estimated by scientists as:

      G = 6.673 x 10-11 m/kg/s in the Metric system
      G = 3.439 x 10-8 ft/slug/s in the English system

=== From here.
 

So we can see that gravity does the opposite here, it 'speeds up' the acceleration, as observed inside that 'frame of reference'. But knowing Vern I think he meant something different than this. I know he is well versed in Newtonian Physics, but as it stands I can see that you got confused :)

As for "On earth and in free space, if I through a ball at the speed of light, time on the ball will slow down, but the ball on earth will slow down and time will turn back to normal, but the one in free space will continue to have the time slowed down until the speed is reduced." :)

As long as you mean just under the speed of light in a vacuum I'm totally with you. The ball speeding through space will continue to do so, and as seen from an observer at rest with the origin before that acceleration (like being 'still' where you threw it, observing) it will indeed have its 'time' slowed down, as well as now being of an enormous momentum/relative mass. The ball traveling inside Earths gravitational field though, (ah, it will leave it in fact:) but if it didn't, it would be slowed down sooner or later, by the gravitation, or as we physicist aficionados call it 'SpaceTimes Geodesics' bending it, and the friction and gravity slowing it down at the same time.

That shouldn't be read as gravity expends any 'energy' stopping it though. As far as I understands it, it's the other way around, to break free of gravity matter will have to expend energy and if it doesn't have sufficient amounts it will stay inside that gravitational fields center.

As for "As I understand it, gravity slows down time, how does increasingly dense electron flow slow down time?" :) A beautiful question that should be answerable too..

So how does it do it? It should, shouldn't it, as observed outside our gravitational field. It sounds like it should increase gravity too? And what about magnetic fields? It's a new one to me :)
==

That link didn't work btw?

So?
« Last Edit: 22/04/2010 23:19:47 by yor_on »
 

Offline djdave

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what causes the force of gravity?
« Reply #12 on: 21/05/2010 11:10:17 »
I believe its the Earths Core that generates the Force of Gravity, by Speed*Time, please correct me if I am Wrong.
 

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what causes the force of gravity?
« Reply #12 on: 21/05/2010 11:10:17 »

 

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