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Author Topic: What is the temperature of the void separating the Sun and the Earth?  (Read 3301 times)

Offline standalone

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Heat radiates through the vaccum to reach the earth. So, Earth has certain temperature. And then what is the temperature of the vaccum between the sun and the earth through which the heat has travelled?


[STANDALONE - PLEASE ENSURE THAT YOUR THREAD TITLES ARE PHRASED AS QUESTIONS, IN-LINE WITH FORUM POLICY. THANKS. CHRIS.]
« Last Edit: 28/12/2009 12:29:23 by chris »


 

Offline yor_on

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Light interacts with matter, not with the vacuum in itself. When physicists and astronomers say that the universe have cooled since the big bang they don't mean the vacuum but the light contained in it. That light we can measure in form of energy and so get a temperature. That 'older' light is nowadays 'visible' in form of microwaves, around three degrees Kelvin, so it has cooled considerably since the Big Bang. The vacuum may have a temperature of 'its own' though due to 'virtual particles' and intrinsic 'fuzziness' (energy) but that's not measured as far as I know.

You could create a sealed container-'vacuum' and then dip one half of the container in a volcano's lava, but it won't be the 'vacuum' inside it that heats up, instead it will be the radiation created from the lavas heat, if we now measured that side turned from the lava, that would 'permeate' the vacuum toward its cooler side, well, sort of :)
 

Offline standalone

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yeah! i tried making vaccum in a sealed box and kept it in the microwave oven with thermometer but no result . it showed the same initial temperature that it previously had. Then does it mean that vaccum doesnot have any temperature.
 

Offline yor_on

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Interesting thermometer :)
Inside you said, mercury perhaps?

You're quite brave. But yeah, I think you're right, more or less. The vacuum or the 'absence of anything' that it is for us won't have a temperature. It is only 'thingies' that can 'interact' with light that will have it, like 'virtual particles' even though they disappear so fast that 'ordinary photons' won't touch them, or will they? According to HUP they are outside Plank time???

Sh*  anyway, I think you're right :)

------

Thinking of it, a 'virtual particle' is a 'photon of sorts' so it will have it's own non determinable 'energy' that can be as high as it pleases, due to that it 'disappears' too quickly to even have 'existed', well, inside our arrow of time at least :)

And if that won't give you a headache then we can to that add that it 'did exist', as we can see the effects from them ::))

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« Last Edit: 28/12/2009 09:46:33 by yor_on »
 

Offline standalone

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Energy is quantized , comes in the packet form not in a contionous pattern but it speeds only making unable find it out. It is like the AC current .
 

Offline yor_on

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Is it energy quanta you think of?
discrete jumps of energy?

Energy quanta
 

Offline Waldo Pepper

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Heat radiates through the vaccum to reach the earth. So, Earth has certain temperature. And then what is the temperature of the vaccum between the sun and the earth through which the heat has travelled?

Just out of curiosity - was that title thread from the OP? If so it's pretty explicit as a question to ask others.

To answer the OP's question - it's very cold. Radiated heat is passed through the ether as infrared waves that cannot heat anything until it hits something that can absorb them and convert them to heat. Like a planet. In the same way we never see the power of the sun until it illuminates an object like a planet, using light.

Household radiators use all three methods. Convection, Conduction & Radiation. They radiate to the air surrounding them, thus warming a room. In space there is no air, so are just passed as IR waves deteriating at much the same way as light does as they are similar frequencies.

Hence why as we move away from the sun, it get smaller, glows dimmer and as a result the receiving planet gets colder.



[STANDALONE - PLEASE ENSURE THAT YOUR THREAD TITLES ARE PHRASED AS QUESTIONS, IN-LINE WITH FORUM POLICY. THANKS. CHRIS.]
 

Offline yor_on

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Ah, seems perfectly correct to me.
There is that thing about 'travel' of course, but questioning that makes our world very 'strange'.
 

Offline standalone

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Yeah! another great problem arises . IR waves travel through vaccum carring energy which gets transmitted to other body only when it hits with that body and absorbed by it . You say that wave hits the body to convert into the heat energy,This is telling that waves are the particles.If it is particle then certainly vaccum must have certain temperature. 
« Last Edit: 29/12/2009 03:30:08 by standalone »
 

Offline Waldo Pepper

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Whether it's a particle or a wave is generally irrelevant in this case. It is simply passing through a medium which is close to absolute zero in terms of temperature and being close to an absolute vaccuum, there is nothing for these particles/waves to hit and thus heat.

There is simply nothing to absorb them so they travel and eventually lose their energy.

If you consider it a particle, it loses energy but not speed. If you consider it a wave then it simply attenuates with distance but again not speed.

A microwave oven will still work in a vaccuum as it has something to hit on and heat...Water!

I have no idea how a chicken jalfrezi would taste like heated in a near vaccuum though ;)

 

Offline yor_on

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The interesting point :) to me is that a photon is seen as time less. That means, as I understands it, that from its own perspective nothing takes any time, and distance, as seen from our perspective, doesn't exist to it.

That is also the answer to why its 'energy' stays the same until it 'interact'. But your idea that it is solely particles standalone, doesn't explain radiation and waves.

And the two slit experiment show us that a photon is a photon, or a wave, but not both at the same time, as far as I know? Or is there any experiment that firsthandedly prove both concepts simultaneously?

You could also say that our experiments are bound by casuality, the arrow of time, arranging it into events, stringed one after another. But our photon (Boson), even though obeying SpaceTime, may due to its intrinsic 'timelessness' be something else, not bound to causality in the same manner as we and fermions (matter) seems to be.

But that arrangement, into Bosons and fermions, still doesn't seem to describe it all perfectly, as supercooled helium-4 take up a place when it should instead be superimposed if being perfectly 'Bosonic', or is there something explaining that?
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Space itself has no specific temperature.  It is the particles and radiation that travel through it that have a temperature and this depends on how you measure it.

We would normally say that the temperature of a solid liquid or gas was that created by the molecules of the gas itself.  Rather than any electromagnetic radiation (sunlight)that was flowing through it  although this clearly has a warming effect on bodies that intercept and absorb this radiation.

Based on this the "temperature" of space near the sun is very high (much higher than the temperature of the surface of the sun.  In the corona it can be millions of degrees.  Near the earth just outside the atmosphere it is thousands of degrees.  but this space has very few particles in it and therefore cannot transfer much heat to melt things etc. 

The temperature available from the radiation depends on how it is absorbed and how efficient the body that absorbs the radiation re-radiates the energy.  For an evenly absorbing and radiating body about the earth's distance from the sun this is about freezing point of water.   

A body that is absorbing energy but does not re radiate can get very hot indeed (in theory up to the temperature of the surface of the sun) This is used in solar heat collectors.
« Last Edit: 31/12/2009 12:49:17 by Soul Surfer »
 

Offline standalone

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The whole system of mass and energy is effectin one other. We donot define the temperature of space but rather the temperature of a particle being in that particular point of condition with frame of references.

Is the motion of the particles or waves in space related with the loss or gain of energy?????????
 

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