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Offline noden1

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is there a great designer
« on: 16/07/2003 20:07:29 »
does the existence of a design imply the existence of a designer,


 

Offline Exodus

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Re: is there a great designer
« Reply #1 on: 16/07/2003 22:14:15 »
Is this an essay you have to do or somethig? seems very obscure... can you explain in what way you want people to answer this?

Resident Tour Operator - The Naked Scientists
 

Offline Donnah

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Re: is there a great designer
« Reply #2 on: 17/07/2003 05:14:33 »
Noden1, is a random pattern a design?
 

Offline McGee

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Re: is there a great designer
« Reply #3 on: 17/07/2003 14:17:26 »
There is a Designer and a Planner.  I believe nothing is random.  Everything happens for a reason.

Teachers don't make a lot of money, but they make a lot of difference.
 

Offline noden1

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Re: is there a great designer
« Reply #4 on: 03/08/2003 00:06:38 »
no essay,its not a question of what i want ,just interested in peoples ideas on cause and design
 

Offline sarge

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Re: is there a great designer
« Reply #5 on: 08/08/2003 11:40:05 »
No its about interpretation. How we perceive structures in chaos says more about us and our culture.
 

Offline D@vé

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Re: is there a great designer
« Reply #6 on: 08/08/2003 12:01:23 »
quote:
Originally posted by sarge

No its about interpretation. How we perceive structures in chaos says more about us and our culture.



How can you have a chaotic structure?
 

Offline Dougal

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Re: is there a great designer
« Reply #7 on: 08/08/2003 12:09:55 »
quote:
Originally posted by D@vé
How can you have a chaotic structure?



Come and visit where I work - you'll see!
 

Igor Clark

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Re: is there a great designer
« Reply #8 on: 08/08/2003 12:22:00 »
Does the existence of a designer entail the existence of a design?
 

Offline penisman

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Re: is there a great designer
« Reply #9 on: 08/08/2003 12:35:13 »
Well if there is, he's made a bloody piss poor job of it.
 

Offline DaulP

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Re: is there a great designer
« Reply #10 on: 08/08/2003 13:14:15 »
Far from being discredited, my differential polynomial randomising-tree wallpaper design experience has shown that in the production of endlessly random but matching-at-the-edges designs predicates the need for a mathematician as the controlling entity of the mathematical function, but completely sidesteps the need for a designer .

And it works for music as well.
 

Igor Clark

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Re: is there a great designer
« Reply #11 on: 08/08/2003 13:20:29 »
penisman - that is the point of the topic I've realised, no there isn't a great designer, just a rubbish one.

Daul, I think I'm starting to understand your argument finally. Those people who called you wacko were the real wacks. Does this work on those T-shirts that don't have a seam down the side? It's true, isn't it - once you understand the pattern you start to see it everywhere!
 

Offline Donnah

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Re: is there a great designer
« Reply #12 on: 08/08/2003 15:29:54 »
There is no final answer, only individual perceptions.  My perception is that for someone to legitimately call themselves a designer they must have formulated a design and where there's a design, something or someone must have created the design.  It's cause and effect.
« Last Edit: 08/08/2003 18:06:08 by Donnah »
 

Igor Clark

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Re: is there a great designer
« Reply #13 on: 08/08/2003 16:10:41 »
Thanks Donnah. But that's just semantic really isn't it?
 

Offline Feline1

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Re: is there a great designer
« Reply #14 on: 08/08/2003 16:15:27 »
Semantics? Schemantics? Pedantics?!!

Ahien!! :P
 

Offline cobra427

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Re: is there a great designer
« Reply #15 on: 08/08/2003 16:24:57 »
yeah but who designed the egg..[:I]
« Last Edit: 08/08/2003 16:25:12 by cobra427 »
 

Offline sarge

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Re: is there a great designer
« Reply #16 on: 08/08/2003 22:29:02 »
quote:
Originally posted by D@vé

quote:
Originally posted by sarge

No its about interpretation. How we perceive structures in chaos says more about us and our culture.



How can you have a chaotic structure?



Good point Dave but the point I was how we make sense and order out what appears as chaos.
eg Listening to a straight  4/4 time signature with western instrumentation would be easier  to make common sense than  say  a polyrhymic sound collage of  apparent  randomness.

or

What  happens in  one 24 hour cycle may be random but when  viewed or recorded over several years/decades/cultural patterns appear.
 

Offline n/a

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Re: is there a great designer
« Reply #17 on: 08/08/2003 22:55:54 »
Sementic?

quote:
Originally posted by Igor Clark

Thanks Donnah. But that's just semantic really isn't it?

 

Offline heythere

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Re: is there a great designer
« Reply #18 on: 09/08/2003 00:43:22 »
If there is a design there is a designer, because without a designer there would be no design. You cannot have a design without a designer as it would only be random otherwise. A design is as stated in the dictionary, something that is intended / worked for. Give me an example of a design that has no designer and proce me wrong ;)
 

Offline heythere

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Re: is there a great designer
« Reply #19 on: 09/08/2003 00:50:14 »
In response to:
"There is a Designer and a Planner. I believe nothing is random. Everything happens for a reason."
I believe nothing happens for any other reason apart from the fact that it is how it is going to be...Fate.
If you think about it; you may believe that you are responsible for coming to these forums and reading these messages or for making yourself a cup of tea, but you are not.
If you look at the big picture: We are only a group of proteins with energy running through them...your body responds to checmicals and signals from your senses, so whatever you do in the next 10 seconds will be defined by people and things everywhere. If someone swings a cricket bat at your head your eyes will send a signal to your brain which will then send signals to your muscles making you duck out of the way.
It's hard to explain but my point is. We can only respond to circumstances as the brain sees fit. YOU HAVE NO CONTROL.
Or I might be wrong.
 

Offline Infamous

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is there a great designer
« Reply #20 on: 25/03/2007 04:12:20 »
Well if there is, he's made a bloody piss poor job of it.
Actually, it is us that have screwed things up penisman. BTW, are you trying to tell us something about your personality with that unusual name, penisman?
..........................Infy
 

Offline Bored chemist

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is there a great designer
« Reply #21 on: 25/03/2007 13:34:22 »
If the designer made us, and we screwed up then it's a poor design.
 

Offline namaan

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is there a great designer
« Reply #22 on: 25/03/2007 18:38:58 »
Quote
If the designer made us, and we screwed up then it's a poor design.

Although I don't agree with this, I appreciate the involved thought process.

Now, even using this logic, every single species besides humans "works". In fact, using this logic, everything in the entire universe besides humans "works".

If the strong force was just a bit stronger than the weak force, or if the electromagnetic force was just a big weaker than the gravitational force, or if the universal gas constant was just a bit larger or if the speed of travel of electromagnetic radiation was just a bit slower, or if the fresh water was not separated from the salty water, or if the earth was a bit farther from the sun, or (as the theory goes) if the collision that caused the moon never took place, or…etc., than helium may not have formed, stars may not have formed, solar systems may not have formed, galaxies may not have formed, earth may not have formed, the moon may not have formed and most importantly, life on earth may not have formed.

But all these things did form, as well as trees of various kinds, animals and, through pre-determined evolution (Quranic understanding), eventually humans. And yet after successfully creating all these things, the designer somehow “screwed up” when it came to humans? Some how, I doubt this.

If at all you are willing to consider the Quranic understanding on this issue, humans have yet to evolve in the here after. Islamic heaven doesn’t consist of the sexual/material fantasies that certain “Muslims” and the media abroad would have people believe. When one’s state of mind is heavenly (consisting of peace & security), they inherit heaven in the hereafter and vise versa. And those who inherit a heavenly state of mind, to them doors to further evolution are opened. Thus this life is a test to see who is willingly capable (through our own choice) of attaining the state of mind that would render the doors to further evolution of the Self to open.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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is there a great designer
« Reply #23 on: 25/03/2007 22:13:59 »
Most species are now extinct because they didn't wokr well enough.
 

Offline namaan

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is there a great designer
« Reply #24 on: 26/03/2007 02:22:05 »
You're pretty good at one sentence responses... :D

I should try that sometimes.

Anyway, so far as I'm concerned, these species didn't die off because of a mistake by the designer, but rather the life and death of all species is part of the design.

Consider this: if it were the will of the designer to have the world dominated by humanity, than would not the successively more intelligent primates leading up to the human interfere with His design and create confusion for humans if they did not successively become extinct as well? Thus, extinction of the ancestors of humans was a necessary condition in the design layout.

Also, please try to respond to more than just the “easy pickings” since it is rather discouraging for me.
 

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is there a great designer
« Reply #24 on: 26/03/2007 02:22:05 »

 

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