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Offline Tommo

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Does anyone know about natural antibiotics?
« on: 09/01/2010 09:18:46 »
I watched a Discovery program about 15 years ago where it reported on an alternative to antibiotics. It described a Russian country (I think Georgia) that did not develop antibiotics like Alexander Fleming did in 1928. They decided to harvest what I think was a type of virus which lived only on certain bacteria. Each virus could be bred to attack a particular bacterium and when the bacterium mutated away from the virus then the virus simply mutated to keep up with it. When the treatment by a particular virus became ineffective, it was assumed that the bacteria must have mutated and all that was required by the doctors was to locate the mutated virus, harvest it, and culture it.  This was performed by going to the only place where products of the patients located, this being the sewerage system.  A sample from the sewage was collected and a new strain isolated and cultured before being administered to the hospital patients. This was done in a matter of days and did not require 10 years research unlike the Western hospitals.  A new and accurate antibiotic was always on hand and diseases like MRSA did not exist.

My questions are

1.   Can anyone remember this program.

2.  If a cash strapped Russian country can develop this type of antibiotic why cannot we in the modern West do this and save countless lives and save the NHS a heap of money. This way we have a limitless supply of antibiotics and very little research and development to be financed.
« Last Edit: 09/01/2010 21:00:13 by Tommo »


 

Offline alanan

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Re: Does anyone know about natural antibiotics?
« Reply #1 on: 09/01/2010 11:34:03 »
2.  If a cash strapped Russian country can develop this type of antibiotic why cannot we in the modern West do this and save countless lives and save the NHS a heap of money. This way we have a limitless supply of antibiotics and very little research and development to be financed.
Very simple, The development of all drugs is controlled by huge multinational companies, involving huge sums of money. If anyone from outside the system comes up with a cheap alternative, the least thing that will happen to them is that they will be ridiculed in the media, if that does not work the Establishment will bring the law onto them
 

Offline iko

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Re: Does anyone know about natural antibiotics?
« Reply #2 on: 09/01/2010 12:25:25 »
"Repetita juvant!"



Drug companies had been criticized even by distinguished scientists like Barry Marshall (another Marshall), interviewed for his 2005 Nobel Prize (Physiol. and Med.):


Quote
...

"The excitement for the drug companies is not there, because the drug companies were making so much money out of ulcer treatments, and if you analyse the pharmaceutical industry, you’ll see that the pharmaceutical giants are interested in treatments, which go on and on for years: like blood pressure, cholesterol, and that’s why these are the very big money makers for the drug companies.


They don’t make much money out of a cure, because you can only take it once."










 

Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Does anyone know about natural antibiotics?
« Reply #3 on: 09/01/2010 17:06:05 »
I don't know if it was the same program I saw, but I remember that there was a program showing the Russian's success using viruses (caled bacteriophages BTW) to fight bacterial infections.
The show featured a Western businessman who was trying to kick the idea off in the West- I haven't heard from it since.
A bit of googling sugests the show I saw was part of the BBC's "Horizon" series- "The Virus that Cures"
 

Offline Tommo

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Re: Does anyone know about natural antibiotics?
« Reply #4 on: 09/01/2010 18:01:38 »
Thanks, you have jogged my memory.  It was the Horizon program and I vaguely remember the name 'bacteriophage'.  Many thanks for the info.  I found the program highly informative but I have never been able to get my head round why we do not market this.  Another post suggests that it may be a financial decision.  It is a shame that money would get in the way of a cure.
 

Offline Geezer

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Does anyone know about natural antibiotics?
« Reply #5 on: 09/01/2010 22:16:44 »
Thanks BC - Yes, I saw that program here quite recently. A rerun no doubt. As I recall, the physician has to customize the combinations of bacteriophages for each patient, so I don't think it's possible to develop a single treatment that will work across the board. I think that was the major stumbling block.
 

Offline Variola

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Does anyone know about natural antibiotics?
« Reply #6 on: 10/01/2010 09:16:15 »
I will dig out more info when I have time, but there is a clinic in Tblisi in Georgia that have specialized in phage therapy (bacteriophage). Problems like MRSA and VRSA are tackled effectively by phage therapy, the bonus being when the bacteria are killed off, the virus dies as there is nothing for it to live on. It is natural, and new types of phage can be found with relative ease, they can even be used to identify a particular bacterium when the family/strain of it isn't clear.
However, since Russia invaded Georgia I am not sure how much more research has been able to continue, and it is difficult finding much of their research on the net. Unfortunately science over here is sceptical of anything coming out of Russia it seems...
 

Offline Tommo

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Does anyone know about natural antibiotics?
« Reply #7 on: 11/01/2010 22:31:27 »
After a bit of Googleing I found the video on the Internet.  If anybody would like to see it, please follow this link:

newbielink:http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=8887931967515748990# [nonactive]

 

Offline gummybear

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Does anyone know about natural antibiotics?
« Reply #8 on: 12/01/2010 12:12:01 »
This is fascinating, however it is in line with how antibiotics work anyway.  It could be argued that they are 'natural', because they are produced by one organism, usually a fungus to destroy another organism using a bacteria, presumably when they are both competing for an environment in which to survive.  The idea of a virus which attacks bacteria is a similar mechanism and highly credible, I just hope one of the drug companies can work out how the virus achieves this (probably by infecting the bacterial cell) and see if the mechanism can be re-created and produced on a commercial scale.  Despite cynicism about the pharmaceutical industry they do some good work, such as in the field of antibiotic research, although I agree that they seem to prefer developing treatments to cures.
 

Offline Tommo

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Does anyone know about natural antibiotics?
« Reply #9 on: 12/01/2010 20:01:40 »
Gummybear.  Thanks for your comments.  The idea that drug companies are not pursuing this line of drug development most puzzling.  I highly recommend viewing the video in my link above.  It explains a lot about how a cash strapped nation can do this research but I am equally puzzled as to how well funded nations refuse to get involve for one thing or another. 

 

Offline phdkso

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Does anyone know about natural antibiotics?
« Reply #10 on: 23/01/2010 00:54:45 »
I give a presentation on phage therapy with the title below. Hope the websites in my short handout will help those who want to learn more about phage therapy.
***********
Superbugs, Phage Therapy: Getting Beyond Bullshit und Ueberbullshit!

The following headlines might have appeared in Canada:

1917: Canadian microbiologist, Felix d'Herelle, discovers natural nanotechnology, bacteriophage therapy, that can cure and prevent superbug infections and foodborne bacterial disease.

2008: Canadians continue to suffer and die unnecessarily from superbug infections and foodborne disease because Canada is too venal to approve and use natural nanotechnology, bacteriophage therapy, discovered by Canadian microbiologist, Felix d'Herelle in 1917.

While 8000 to 12000 Canadians are dying from antibiotic-resistant superbug infections annually the joke is on us, as some countries still practice technology discovered by the Canadian, Felix d'Herelle in 1917. Phage therapy uses highly specific viruses, bacteriophages, which are harmless for humans, to treat bacterial infections. Phage therapy is not currently approved or practiced in Canada. According to a letter signed by a former federal health minister it can be made available legally to Canadians under the Special Access Program of our Food & Drugs Act! A discussion of phage therapy is currently very timely because of the release of the Canadian film: Killer Cure: The Amazing Adventures of Bacteriophage and the book by Thomas Haeusler entitled, Viruses vs. Superbugs, a solution to the antibiotics crisis? ( see http://www.bacteriophagetherapy.info [nofollow] ). Both references are available at Ottawa libraries.
This file has dramatically changed because the US Food and Drug Administration has amended the US food additive regulations to provide for the safe use of a bacteriophages on ready-to-eat meat against Listeria monocytogenes (see http://www.fda.gov/OHRMS/DOCKETS/98fr/02f-0316-nfr0001.pdf [nofollow] ). Also http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/opabacqa.html [nofollow] . The idea that ready-to-eat meat can be treated if contaminated with Listeria bacteria while a doctor could not get a pharmaceutical grade phage therapy product when faced with a patient suffering listeriosis strikes this author as absurd especially considering the recent massive recall of ready-to-eat meat in Canada due to contamination with listeria. Information is available on phage therapy treatment in Georgia , Europe ( http://www.phagetherapycenter.com [nofollow] ), or Poland - ( http://www.aite.wroclaw.pl/phages/phages.html [nofollow] ) or more recently at the Wound Care Center, Lubbock, Texas ( http://www.woundcarecenter.net/ [nofollow] ) .
Canada should establish 'The Superbug Victim Felix d'Herelle Memorial Center for Experimental Phage Therapy' to provide phage therapy to patients when antibiotics fail or when patients are allergic to antibiotics.
****************
The most important educational experience I never had and “THEY” don’t want you to have!
HAPPINESS IS GETTING BEYOND TRUTHINESS!
{ TRUTHINESS aka BULLSHIT/ÜBERBULLSHIT aka SCIENTIFICATION }
THAT THAT IS IS. THAT THAT IS NOT IS NOT.
BUT WE KNOW NOT WHAT IS AND WHAT IS NOT SO WE BULLSHIT A LOT!
Presentation by G.W. (Bill) Riedel, PHD – http://bullshitcitynorth.blogspot.com [nofollow]
 

Offline Tommo

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Does anyone know about natural antibiotics?
« Reply #11 on: 23/01/2010 13:58:48 »
phdkso..Thanks for your information.  I wish you and everyone involved in this all the luck in trying to get this type of therapy an everyday treatment for everyone.

I think the quicker we get type of treatment accepted in modern day medicine the better.
 
 

Offline alanan

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Does anyone know about natural antibiotics?
« Reply #12 on: 28/01/2010 06:17:53 »
A very interesting video about phages. I wonder if the same effect occurs when people growing up in a dirty environment seem to become immune to the bacterial infections which knock over people coming in from other places.
 

Offline Tommo

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Does anyone know about natural antibiotics?
« Reply #13 on: 09/02/2010 14:57:43 »
phdkso......Thank you very much for the information regarding the book by Thomas Hausler.  I found a copy on Amazon and in 1 week it was in my hand.  I read the book with great interest and far more informed about the subject.  Thomas has his own web page on the book and can be found at:

newbielink:http://www.bacteriophagetherapy.info [nonactive]

Whilst on his page I also found that he had written an article in the Naked Scientist and can be located at:

newbielink:http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/articles/article/virusesvssuperbugs/ [nonactive]

All I can say is thankyou to everyone that has provided me with information on the subject.  I hope to read more on the subject.  Micro Biology is not my specialist subject.  I am an aviation engineer (37 years now!!!) but I find this subject grabs my interest.
« Last Edit: 13/02/2010 15:40:46 by Tommo »
 

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Does anyone know about natural antibiotics?
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