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Author Topic: Is this the biggest airplane built before 'modern aircrafts'?  (Read 7271 times)

Offline yor_on

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Built in Russia during the 1930s. The designer, Konstantin Kalinin, wanted to build two more planes but the project was scrapped. Later, Stalin had Kalinin executed. K-7. ( Can you see the cannons :)

This and this.

So, was that the biggest they built? (Not modern aircrafts now, the 'Victorian' ones I want:)


 

Offline Geezer

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Is this the biggest airplane built before 'modern aircrafts'?
« Reply #1 on: 09/01/2010 23:50:50 »
Yikes! I'm surprised they even bothered to put guns on it. The mere sight of that thing coming at me would make me run.

I suppose it depends what you mean by modern. How about the Hughes "Spruce Goose"?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hughes_H-4_Hercules(which, I think was largely made from birch, possibly from Sweden)

I don't think its control surfaces were servo assisted, so it must have been rather exciting to try to control the thing.

BTW, if you have a chance to see it, you will not be disappointed.
 

Offline LeeE

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Is this the biggest airplane built before 'modern aircrafts'?
« Reply #2 on: 10/01/2010 00:35:48 »
Yes Geezer, the largest 'pre-modern' i.e. piston-powered aircraft, and still the aircraft with the greatest wingspan, is the Kiaser-Hughes H-4.  It flew just once, and managed to reach an altitude of ~70ft.

The largest aircraft by weight (ever), and not much smaller in size than the H-4, is the Antonov AN225 conversion of the AN124 heavy cargo lifter, which has proved to be very effective, especially after the 'fall' of the U.S.S.R, when demand from western customers resulted in it being taken out of mothballs and put back into service.  Afaik, only a single AN225 has ever flown but there have been continuous rumours of second and third aircraft being completed, such is it's demand.

The new A-380F is around the same size as the AN225 but can't match the payload of the older AN225.

The graphic in the link below shows the relative sizes pretty well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Giant_planes_comparison.svg
 

Offline JimBob

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Is this the biggest airplane built before 'modern aircrafts'?
« Reply #3 on: 10/01/2010 00:46:03 »
Blast it Lee I was going to say that. Hurumph!
 
 [V]

The two bottom renderings of Russian aircraft are not the same plane as the others. They have 10 engines and what looks to be battleship armament. The rest have six engines, none above the wings, and the scale is much smaller. The photographs show the same plane as in the top two drawings, sans naval guns.
Comparing the two planes

RUSSIAN A-7 KALININ

Type    K-7
Function    bomber
Year    1933
Crew    19
Engines    7*750hp Mikulin AM-34
Empty Weight    21,000kg
Maximum Weight    40,000kg
Wingspan    53m
Wing Area    452m2
Length    28m
Speed on the ground level    234km/h
Ceiling    5500m
Range    2400km with 6,000kg bombs
5000km in passenger version
Takeoff/Landing Roll    400m/300m
Passenger version    128 seats
Armament
Bombs    9,900...16,600kg
Guns    Defence: up to 12 positions
8*g20mm
8*mg7.62mm


HIGHES H4 SPRUCE GOOSE
General characteristics

    * Crew: 3
    * Length: 218 ft 8 in (66.65 m)
    * Wingspan: 319 ft 11 in (97.54 m)
    * Height: 79 ft 4 in (24.18 m)

    * Fuselage height: 30 ft (9.1 m)

    * Loaded weight: 400,000 lb (180,000 kg)
    * Powerplant: 8× Pratt & Whitney R-4360 Wasp Major radial engines, 3,000 hp (2,240 kW) each
    * Propellers: four-bladed Hamilton Standard, prop, 1 per engine
          o Propeller diameter: 17 ft 2 in (5.23 m)

Performance

    * Cruise speed: 220 mph (353.98 km/h)
    * Range: 3,000 mi (4,800 km)
    * Service ceiling: 20,900 ft (6,370 m)

The Spruce Goose was bigger in every way except probably armament. The Spruce Goose was very much the heavier payload plane [400,000 lb (180,000 kg) for H4 vs 36,597 lb (16,600kg)] for the A7 and had more power (24,000hp H-4 vs 5,250hp for A-7.) The wingspan for the Russian design was slightly 174 feet, the Hughes, 320 ft.

What is significant is that the A-7 flew 9 years before the Hughes plane. It was a nice, although troubled accomplishment.
 

Offline LeeE

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Is this the biggest airplane built before 'modern aircrafts'?
« Reply #4 on: 10/01/2010 02:20:27 »
Heh! - I made a 3D model and developed a Flight Data Model configuration for the AN225 for the FlightGear open source Flight Simulator.

There's some good footage of it at a couple of air shows on You-tube, where it appears to be exceptionally nimble for such a large aircraft, but then for a display I expect the takeoff weight was only around 650000-700000 lbs and it gets 300000 lbs thrust from its six engines, which is a better power to weight ratio than most WW2 fighters.
 

Offline JimBob

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Is this the biggest airplane built before 'modern aircrafts'?
« Reply #5 on: 10/01/2010 02:54:55 »
CRAP! That was one hoss of an airplane!

(hoss = horse for you British)
 

Offline LeeE

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Is this the biggest airplane built before 'modern aircrafts'?
« Reply #6 on: 10/01/2010 13:40:06 »
Oh, just to add: the AN225 could, in theory, carry the H-4; it can carry loads up to 440000 lbs and 230 ft long externally.  In practice though, I strongly suspect that the H-4's wings and tailplanes would interfere with the aerodynamics too much.  Mind you, it would form the biggest bi-plane to ever take to the skies  ;D
 

Offline yor_on

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Is this the biggest airplane built before 'modern aircrafts'?
« Reply #7 on: 11/01/2010 08:10:59 »
Now DD, don't you know that a picture speaks more than a thousand words?
Are you questioning the pictures integrity?

How about this presentation then?
Kind of impressive, especially the text under.
Reading it you will find that the K7 was the biggest airplane...Ever.

Good sh*
 

Offline Geezer

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Is this the biggest airplane built before 'modern aircrafts'?
« Reply #8 on: 11/01/2010 08:50:16 »
These images look very dodgy to me. Is Yoron from the former Soviet Block?
 

Offline yor_on

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Is this the biggest airplane built before 'modern aircrafts'?
« Reply #9 on: 11/01/2010 11:48:46 »
Did you see the size of the wings my man.
If that is true then I'm a 'comrade' :)
 

Offline LeeE

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Is this the biggest airplane built before 'modern aircrafts'?
« Reply #10 on: 11/01/2010 18:32:08 »
DiscoverDave: the C-5 is broadly comparable to the slightly larger AN-124 but is quite a bit smaller than the AN-225, which can carry about twice the internal payload of the C-5; 550000 lbs vs. 270000 lbs.  The Max Take Off weights for the C-5, AN-124 & AN225 are 840000 lbs, 893000 lbs & 1,323,000 lbs respectively.  Funnily enough, the USAF have actually contracted AN-124s, on occasion, to carry helicopters from the US to Afghanistan.

The colour 'photographs' of the K-7 are most definitely CGI and those large gun turrets are just silly.  The aircraft was of boarderline performance anyway and would have had neither the power to lift such guns, nor the structural strength to absorb the recoil (if it was strong enough to withstand the recoil, Newton's third law would have some serious implications).  The fixed forward facing cannon would also be pretty useless in such an unmaneuverable aircraft.  Afaik, the largest aircraft (by size) to actually carry guns was the WW2 Messerschmitt Me 323:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_323
 

Offline yor_on

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Is this the biggest airplane built before 'modern aircrafts'?
« Reply #11 on: 11/01/2010 22:15:03 »
(NOT the same as the height of the Empire State Building)

What?

Well, I'm no comrade then, am I?
Awh.
 

Offline Geezer

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Is this the biggest airplane built before 'modern aircrafts'?
« Reply #12 on: 12/01/2010 03:43:43 »
Тогда вы не товарищ.

Erm, perhaps you could translate? I hope this does not say something like "Your mother is a second class yak herder's assistant on the collective" or something.
 

Offline yor_on

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Is this the biggest airplane built before 'modern aircrafts'?
« Reply #13 on: 12/01/2010 20:20:37 »
Spaziba.

It's the Pravda
 

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Is this the biggest airplane built before 'modern aircrafts'?
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