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Author Topic: Does beer have a lower freezing temperature than water?  (Read 13548 times)

Offline thedoc

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Does beer have a lower freezing temperature than water?
Asked by Outstanjing, Via Twitter

               
               Read the naked scientists answer here
               
            
« Last Edit: 19/01/2010 19:00:54 by _system »


 

Offline thedoc

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Does beer have a lower freezing temperature than water?
« Reply #1 on: 19/01/2010 19:00:54 »
Dave -   Yes.  Beer’s got lots of things dissolved in it – alcohol, sugar etc.  Anything dissolved in water will reduce its freezing point.  So beer does freeze below zero, maybe at -1 or -2.
Chris -  And CO2, I suppose, if it’s fizzy – that will have an effect too?
Dave -   That will also have an effect, definitely.
Chris -  So if you were to take some beer and put that in the freezer, could you make it much stronger?  Is this a way that you could illicitly do a bit of distillation, because you would freeze the water into ice first, and then some slightly more alcoholic liquid will be left?
Dave -   That’s right.  When you freeze water it can’t take in all these solutes, the dissolved things, into it’s structure, because ice remains really quite pure.  What’s left gets stronger and stronger.  I don’t know if you’ve ever drunk frozen squash or frozen fruit juice?  The stuff you drink first, which is the liquid which melts first, is incredibly strong and very sugary, and then slowly as it melts it gets weaker and weaker, until what’s left is basically pure water.  

« Last Edit: 19/01/2010 19:00:54 by _system »
 

Offline geo driver

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Does beer have a lower freezing temperature than water?
« Reply #2 on: 19/01/2010 21:01:02 »
you guys never got a bottle of cider and put it in the frezzer? there siropy remains are a joy, intill the morning.

ill tell you the answer tomorrow 2 pints 1 water 1 beer in the frezer and see which 1 forms ice first
 

Offline geo driver

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Does beer have a lower freezing temperature than water?
« Reply #3 on: 19/01/2010 21:02:44 »
i recon that beer will have the lower frezinnnnng point
 

Offline Geezer

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Does beer have a lower freezing temperature than water?
« Reply #4 on: 20/01/2010 08:20:37 »
...than cider? I doubt it. You better do a test with all three, and do a toncicity test every three hours.

Tom O, a former colleague of mine, who shall remain nameless, was want to make his own liqueurs using "Polish Spirit". He "boosted" the toncicity a bit by freezing out some of the water.
 

Offline geo driver

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Does beer have a lower freezing temperature than water?
« Reply #5 on: 20/01/2010 21:14:01 »
completely unscientific but two glasses both in freezer started out the same temp 22°c, the water froze earler. could not take temps at that stage as i was in a argument with the boss
 

Offline Geezer

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Does beer have a lower freezing temperature than water?
« Reply #6 on: 21/01/2010 00:53:15 »
Please don't get yourself fired!
 

Offline SeanB

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Does beer have a lower freezing temperature than water?
« Reply #7 on: 21/01/2010 19:17:06 »
Certain beers are advertised as " Ice filtered" by being passed though a slush during production. Don't drink beer myself, but like brewers yeast, especially fresh from the drier in flake form.
 

Offline Make it Lady

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Does beer have a lower freezing temperature than water?
« Reply #8 on: 22/01/2010 17:14:30 »
Dave -   Yes.  Beer’s got lots of things dissolved in it – alcohol, sugar etc.  Anything dissolved in water will reduce its freezing point.  So beer does freeze below zero, maybe at -1 or -2.
Chris -  And CO2, I suppose, if it’s fizzy – that will have an effect too?
Dave -   That will also have an effect, definitely.
Chris -  So if you were to take some beer and put that in the freezer, could you make it much stronger?  Is this a way that you could illicitly do a bit of distillation, because you would freeze the water into ice first, and then some slightly more alcoholic liquid will be left?
Dave -   That’s right.  When you freeze water it can’t take in all these solutes, the dissolved things, into it’s structure, because ice remains really quite pure.  What’s left gets stronger and stronger.  I don’t know if you’ve ever drunk frozen squash or frozen fruit juice?  The stuff you drink first, which is the liquid which melts first, is incredibly strong and very sugary, and then slowly as it melts it gets weaker and weaker, until what’s left is basically pure water.  


Have you thought of writing scripts for Coronation Street. This one would be brilliant set in the Rovers Return.
 

Offline geo driver

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Does beer have a lower freezing temperature than water?
« Reply #9 on: 22/01/2010 22:45:29 »
still not fired i think that the pubs with out me would be just that little bit more difficult with out me then with me, but only just!
 

Offline mabsj2

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Does beer have a lower freezing temperature than water?
« Reply #10 on: 27/01/2010 13:24:58 »
obvious. beer has lots of things dissolved in it so it has to have a lower freezing point and a higher boiling point
 

Offline stereologist

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Does beer have a lower freezing temperature than water?
« Reply #11 on: 27/01/2010 16:37:43 »
Apple jack is the production of a higher alcoholic beverage by freezing the hard cider and removing the ice. What remains behind is less water, i.e. more potent.

Isn't that what ice beers do? I thought the idea was to use poor ingredients to make a lousy beer and then freeze off the water to increase the potency of stuff. It sounds like a marketing ploy to get people to drink substandard products.
 

Offline stereologist

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Does beer have a lower freezing temperature than water?
« Reply #12 on: 27/01/2010 16:42:13 »
I don't agree that adding alcohol to water increases the boiling point. I think it lowers the boiling point since the boiling point of alcohol is lower than water. My thinking is that pure ethanol boils around 80C and water at 100C. So a range of mixtures should have a range between these 2 numbers and not outside the range. Adding solids to water increases the boiling point since the boiling point of these materials is much higher than 100C.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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Does beer have a lower freezing temperature than water?
« Reply #13 on: 27/01/2010 22:17:43 »
obvious. beer has lots of things dissolved in it so it has to have a lower freezing point and a higher boiling point
One of the things in beer is alcohol which has a low boiling point. You are right about the freezing point (unless it's a very weird beer) but the boiling point may be higher or lower than that of water.
 

Offline mabsj2

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Does beer have a lower freezing temperature than water?
« Reply #14 on: 28/01/2010 09:18:51 »
One of the things in beer is alcohol which has a low boiling point. You are right about the freezing point (unless it's a very weird beer) but the boiling point may be higher or lower than that of water.

alcohol composition in beer is about 4% (4ml in 100ml beer) and water is over 90%. i don't think it's boiling point will affect that of beer very considerably!!

newbielink:http://www.beerandhealth.com/index.php/articles/en/cid=7/aid=79/ [nonactive]
« Last Edit: 28/01/2010 09:22:57 by mabsj2 »
 

Offline Bored chemist

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Does beer have a lower freezing temperature than water?
« Reply #15 on: 28/01/2010 19:31:44 »
"alcohol composition in beer is about 4% (4ml in 100ml beer) and water is over 90%. i don't think it's boiling point will affect that of beer very considerably!!
"
True, the effect will be small; but it certainly won't raise the boiling point.
 

Offline geo driver

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Does beer have a lower freezing temperature than water?
« Reply #16 on: 30/01/2010 12:50:21 »
thats another thing i can do at work, oh the boss will be pleased...lol my reconing is beer would have a lower boiling point by 20°c i would do it at home now but wasting my own beer would be sacriligous
 

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« Reply #17 on: 27/05/2010 04:23:39 »
I would be careful about drinking beer that you freezed and drained the concentrate off of.  Freeze distillation does concentrate the alcohol of any beverage but also concentrates the fusal alcohols present in beer, and can be harmful if consumed in large amounts.  If you drink a reasonable amount of such a brew you should be good, but i wouldn't freeze a keg and drain the concentrate off the top to drink.  Just be careful.  Oh and I wouldn't be surprized if you got a worse hangover from freeze distilled beer.
 

DMSO

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« Reply #18 on: 23/12/2014 12:51:23 »
A 5% alc/vol beer (330 mL) if you just consider ethanol as the solute and water the solvent  :
.05 * 330mL = 16.5mL ethanol
Density ethanol (g/mL) is 0.789 so mass is 16.5ml * 0.789g/ml = 13g
To work out freezing point of the beer you need freezing point depression :
Temp change = molarity * vanthoff*kf
Molarity = moles solute / Kg solvent
Molarity = (13g/46gpermol)/0.330kg = 0.856mol/kg
So then :
Temp change = 0.856mol/kg * 1.853 k.kg/mol * 1 = 1.6k
Hence a beer should freeze at 0 - 1.6 degrees Celsius or if you are pedantic than 273.15k - 1.6k = 271.55 kelvin

That was a bit of fun while drinking my Kirin
 

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« Reply #18 on: 23/12/2014 12:51:23 »

 

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