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Author Topic: Can you identify the location?  (Read 20696 times)

Offline RD

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Can you identify the location?
« Reply #50 on: 27/02/2010 13:05:48 »
.

If the picture is essentially all the film frame (not cropped) and taken with a modestly wide-angle lens, (say 35mm on 35mm format, or equivalent), then the red line is 0.95o vertically and is about 0.35 the height of the town hall, which is in total “225 feet“, (68.58meters).

So using trig (someone better check) the picture was taken 1447 meters from the town hall, (say +/- 10%),
i.e. you can draw a couple of circles on the map centred on the town hall with radii 1302 meters and 1592 meters,
 and see where the zone between the circles intersects with the beach.
« Last Edit: 27/02/2010 13:29:30 by RD »
 

Offline graham.d

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« Reply #51 on: 27/02/2010 13:20:43 »
I think it would have to be sub 28mm focal length on a 35mm camera. Not common in the late 20s or early 30s I don't think. The horinontal frame view-angle is 90 degrees or more.
 

Offline LeeE

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Can you identify the location?
« Reply #52 on: 27/02/2010 13:35:22 »
35mm focal length lenses were available for the Leica 2, produced in 1932.
 

Offline graham.d

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« Reply #53 on: 27/02/2010 13:47:20 »
From Wikipedia..
>>
An example of how lens choice affects angle of view. 
28 mm lens, 65.5° × 46.4° 
50 mm lens, 39.6° × 27.0°
 
70 mm lens, 28.9° × 19.5° 
210 mm lens, 9.8° × 6.5°
>>

A 90 degree angle would require an 18mm lens!!
 

Offline RD

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« Reply #54 on: 27/02/2010 15:03:50 »
... you can draw a couple of circles on the map centred on the town hall with radii 1302 meters and 1592 meters,
 and see where the zone between the circles intersects with the beach.



The grey thing top right is part of the runway of Prestwick airport, which according to wikipedia was built "around 1934" so perhaps the plane on the beach was an emergency landing, if there was an airport 5km away, which may explain why the picture was taken. 
« Last Edit: 27/02/2010 17:20:12 by RD »
 

Offline Geezer

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Can you identify the location?
« Reply #55 on: 27/02/2010 18:03:44 »
It is quite a wide angle shot. I've no idea who took it, but it was most likely my dad. I can remember his old camera, but not the make. It was one of the ones where pull out the lens on a bellows. Nothing very exotic.

Perhaps it was taken from quite far out? The tide goes out a long way there. BTW, my dad's family lived in Irvine which is just up the coast.

I have some more details from my brother. I'll post them in a bit.

If anyone is losing sleep over the location of the other photo, send me a PM and I'll put you out of your misery  :D
 

Offline RD

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« Reply #56 on: 27/02/2010 18:41:50 »
Your estimate for the camera position is just in my red zone (based on modest wide-angle lens) ...



 
« Last Edit: 27/02/2010 18:45:10 by RD »
 

Offline graham.d

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« Reply #57 on: 27/02/2010 19:25:03 »
Geezer, I already answered the second location question and I think I was right. Are you ignoring all my hard work?

I can't believe the wide angle is 90 degrees. It would be distorted. It has to be wrong.
 

Offline Geezer

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« Reply #58 on: 27/02/2010 19:41:42 »
Geezer, I already answered the second location question and I think I was right. Are you ignoring all my hard work?

I can't believe the wide angle is 90 degrees. It would be distorted. It has to be wrong.

;D Graham, I'm not intentionally trying to tick you off.

Stay tuned

Yup! Dead right!

I was expecting to see Lake Thun in the answer. You were too specific!

How did you do it Graham?
« Last Edit: 27/02/2010 19:50:37 by Geezer »
 

Offline RD

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« Reply #59 on: 27/02/2010 20:07:16 »
Here's the colour picture I got direct from the Geezer hotline ...



Definitely not a chimney.
« Last Edit: 27/02/2010 20:13:47 by RD »
 

Offline graham.d

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« Reply #60 on: 27/02/2010 20:07:46 »
Elementary my dear Watson :-)

The google image was key. Your photo with the clouds (and the mention of Aberdeen) were shown to be misleading with the blue water and sky in the google image (for once not taken at dawn). The regional wiggly border implied it was somewhere that defined their borders when fine detail was importent. These things pointed to somewhere in old Europe and not Scotland and probably not Scandinavia. The mountains were significant so I thought of the Italian lakes to start then moved over to Austria, Switzerland, Southern Germany. There are not that many lakes near big mountains so it took about 30 minutes. I was probably a bit lucky too.
 

Offline graham.d

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« Reply #61 on: 27/02/2010 20:15:42 »
No, RD can't be right. No schoolboy or aeroplane in the pic :-)

OK, I give in. How did they get a 90 degree view angle on the pic?

Geezer, did you have this pic all the time? Tut tut!
 

Offline RD

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« Reply #62 on: 27/02/2010 20:22:12 »
How did they get a 90 degree view angle on the pic?

Geezer's erroneous inclusion of "St Leonard's church" is what's giving you the idea that it's a 90o field of view.
I estimate the horizontal field of view in the full monochrome image is about 55o.
« Last Edit: 27/02/2010 20:28:45 by RD »
 

Offline Geezer

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« Reply #63 on: 27/02/2010 20:25:46 »
Perhaps it's not St Leonards church. This may work better, in which case, the camera position would be a bit further South.

 

Offline Geezer

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« Reply #64 on: 27/02/2010 20:32:11 »
Elementary my dear Watson :-)

The google image was key. Your photo with the clouds (and the mention of Aberdeen) were shown to be misleading with the blue water and sky in the google image (for once not taken at dawn). The regional wiggly border implied it was somewhere that defined their borders when fine detail was importent. These things pointed to somewhere in old Europe and not Scotland and probably not Scandinavia. The mountains were significant so I thought of the Italian lakes to start then moved over to Austria, Switzerland, Southern Germany. There are not that many lakes near big mountains so it took about 30 minutes. I was probably a bit lucky too.

I suppose if you had just posted the same image from Google, we'd know you were right but the location would remain unknown to others, but maybe that's taking things a bit too far.
 

Offline Geezer

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« Reply #65 on: 27/02/2010 20:36:19 »


Geezer, did you have this pic all the time? Tut tut!

About the same time as I posted that my brother had figured out it was Ayr. It's such a pain posting images on TNS that I decided to dump the whole lot on RD to see if he could make sense of all of it.
 

Offline RD

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« Reply #66 on: 27/02/2010 20:42:00 »
Before you posted the new suspect church I was about to say that the bearing of mystery spire is 30o East of the town hall...



Spot on.
« Last Edit: 27/02/2010 20:47:33 by RD »
 

Offline Geezer

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« Reply #67 on: 27/02/2010 20:46:34 »
I suspect the apparent hill under the spire is all the trees in that area.
 

Offline graham.d

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« Reply #68 on: 27/02/2010 21:03:21 »
Did your brother go there to take the photo? It lines up well. If it is this other church we see, although that explains away the large view angle, it does seem too close to the right hand building to fit with the original. Is it possible to find a camera position that is consistent with this?
 

Offline Geezer

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« Reply #69 on: 27/02/2010 21:13:29 »
Did your brother go there to take the photo?

I'm not sure how he got them. Perhaps he got a friend to take them. I'm reasonably sure he didn't make a trip from Aberdeen to Ayr.

I think there is quite a lot of wiggle room in the camera position. It's also possible I'm missing another church, or that one was demolished, although that's pretty unlikely. Some bombs did fall on Scotland during WW2, but I don't remember hearing about that any came down on Ayr.
« Last Edit: 27/02/2010 21:58:17 by Geezer »
 

Offline RD

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« Reply #70 on: 27/02/2010 21:38:22 »
Did your brother go there to take the photo?

I'm not sure how he got them.


Here are the links which were attached to the photos from the Geezer hotline ...
http://www.ruleworks.co.uk/Ayrshire/wellington-school.asp
http://www.197aerial.co.uk/ayr_wellington_school.htm

As well as Googling, Geezer brother did manage to squeeze out some more detail second time around ...

« Last Edit: 27/02/2010 22:14:06 by RD »
 

Offline Geezer

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« Reply #71 on: 27/02/2010 22:14:46 »
Here's another one. Not too difficult I think.

 

Offline Geezer

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« Reply #72 on: 27/02/2010 22:22:03 »
Here are the links which were attached to the photos from the Geezer hotline ...
http://www.ruleworks.co.uk/Ayrshire/wellington-school.asp
http://www.197aerial.co.uk/ayr_wellington_school.htm

As well as Googling, Geezer brother did manage to squeeze out some more detail second time around ...


It looks like that might be our spire in the top left corner of the second photo from 197aerial site.
 

Offline graham.d

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« Reply #73 on: 27/02/2010 23:58:50 »
It looks like Geezer's brother did a good job of finding relevent pics on the internet. It's very hard to find a site with just the right pics so amazingly well done. The higher res pics would have been a help too. It is certainly much clearer that the it is the town hall spire.
 

Offline graham.d

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« Reply #74 on: 28/02/2010 00:21:59 »
Not much to narrow this one down. I'd hazard a guess at Priest Lake.
 

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