# The Naked Scientists Forum

### Author Topic: Where did the big bang occur?  (Read 2187 times)

#### Spannerman

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 26
##### Where did the big bang occur?
« on: 22/02/2010 18:25:42 »
If the universe was created from the big bang, where did the big bang occur? Something cannot be created out of nothing.

#### flr

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 302
• Thanked: 2 times
##### Where did the big bang occur?
« Reply #1 on: 22/02/2010 20:47:17 »
Quote
Something cannot be created out of nothing.

Could "something" + "anti-something" be created out of nothing?
I mean: could it be that there is an anti-universe (made of negative mass? or negative energy?), which "summed" with our universe gives nothing? Not even space and time? (actually space and time only exist if there is some mass, right? - mass =some objects moving at less than c, hence there is a perspective from which time and space can be perceived.)

If all that was created at bing-bang was our universe, then all the energy in our universe today (as radiation or mass) pre-existed in some form before bing-bang.

Quote
Where did bing-bang occurred?
I think it occurred everywhere in our space.
And since then, this everywhere expanded.
« Last Edit: 22/02/2010 20:54:59 by flr »

#### yor_on

• Naked Science Forum GOD!
• Posts: 11993
• Thanked: 4 times
• (Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
##### Where did the big bang occur?
« Reply #2 on: 23/02/2010 05:15:58 »
If we live in a dream Spannerman :) then all we see is an illusion. I'm not stating that we do, but as we find ourselves unable to pinpoint anything at a QM level, that is 'the Heisenberg uncertainty principle defines limits on how accurately the momentum and position of a single observable system can be known at once.' we have definite problems 'down there'. Some other comes from the math we have to use to pinpoint a solution where we find that there are no single solutions, then we have to fall back on 'cutoff's' and 'renormalization' which both are arbitrary paths to a single solution, more or less.

And it all have to do with that there is a certain 'foggyness' intrinsic to our SpaceTime. Even when treating macroscopic objects it seems as we have a certain fuzzyness. Like you can count on different planets orbits to a high precision over a long period of time, but will find it impossible, as I understands it, to pinpoint exactly where that planet will be in its orbit at a certain point in the future.

Then you have the way 'times arrow' adapt to mass, acceleration. Not that your own observation of time, as heartbeats compared to clocks f.ex, would change in your own 'frame of reference' (Earth), even if Earth suddenly was found to travel double the velocity as long as we are taking about free falling (uniform motion).

So there are a lot of things we can't define that precisely that we might want. And the Big Bang is one of them. It was a 'singularity' meaning that we don't really can say what was before it, what made it go 'Bang', and the math we use fall to a stop in front of it. That doesn't mean that there aren't theories, and math too, trying to describe what might have been. What we do know is that it should have happened, we have a lot of evidence for that as we look at background radiation etc. But it was a very long time ago, and all evidence we see today are diluted by times arrow.

===
(But it is promising from the view point of having a 'free will'. Consider if SpaceTime would be perfectly predictable at all 'sizes'. Then I would say that we would have had to worry for our 'free will' too :)
« Last Edit: 23/02/2010 05:32:31 by yor_on »

#### Robro

• Full Member
• Posts: 69
##### Where did the big bang occur?
« Reply #3 on: 26/02/2010 10:16:33 »
It is possible to veiw the universe in a way that allows distant redshift to be seen in a different way other than expansion from a big bang event. I like to veiw the universe as a STABLE universe having no beginning and no end. Observing the universe in this manner skips the need for other dimensions and theoretical creations. Redshift can be satisfactorily explained as increased wavelength due to interactions with cosmic radiation and particles of all kinds. There are too many inconsistancies in the bigbang fabrication of spacetime to make sense. A STABLE universe need not break the speed of light to exist. The bigbang must break ALL the laws to exist!
« Last Edit: 26/02/2010 10:23:27 by Robro »

#### neilep

• Withdrawnmist
• Naked Science Forum GOD!
• Posts: 20602
• Thanked: 8 times
##### Where did the big bang occur?
« Reply #4 on: 26/02/2010 14:37:53 »
It's very difficult for someone like me to understand the concept of something having always existed..is there a simple way to explain how something can have always existed without a need for a commencement point ! ?

#### flr

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 302
• Thanked: 2 times
##### Where did the big bang occur?
« Reply #5 on: 26/02/2010 15:23:37 »
Redshift can be satisfactorily explained as increased wavelength due to interactions with cosmic radiation and particles of all kinds.

There must be a good reason why this isn't the case,right?

#### Robro

• Full Member
• Posts: 69
##### Where did the big bang occur?
« Reply #6 on: 28/02/2010 03:56:37 »
It's very difficult for someone like me to understand the concept of something having always existed..is there a simple way to explain how something can have always existed without a need for a commencement point ! ?
If energy can neither be created nor destroyed, then how could energy be created at a big bang event and later be destroyed in a big rip event? I can more easily visualize an infinite universe than a universe which came into existence from nothing. If there was nothing, there would be no reason or cause or purpose for the universe to suddenly appear. There would have been no energy or potential energy, so nothing could have happened without the potential for it to happen. And with the big rip, all energy must cease to exist because there would no longer be a dimension for any potential energy to manifest itself so it also would be gone, destroyed. All things being equal, I suppose that for me the universe had a beginning, the day I was born.
« Last Edit: 28/02/2010 04:32:21 by Robro »

#### The Naked Scientists Forum

##### Where did the big bang occur?
« Reply #6 on: 28/02/2010 03:56:37 »