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Author Topic: Jupiter..What if it were a Sun ?  (Read 7541 times)

Offline neilep

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Jupiter..What if it were a Sun ?
« on: 10/11/2005 15:43:07 »
Wocha Peeps of awe inspirational goodness,

Recently I watched again 2001 and 2010.

As you probably know Jupiter ends up being the second Sun in our solar system....which is nice.

So....what would be the consequences to us(if any) of Jupiter becoming a sun ?..apart from a well big bright star to look at....would there be any repercussions for good old Earth ?



Men are the same as women.... just inside out !!


 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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Re: Jupiter..What if it were a Sun ?
« Reply #1 on: 10/11/2005 20:33:29 »
I'm not sure it would make any difference. Its gravitational attraction would not alter & it's too far away for us to see it as more than a very large, very bright star.
 

Offline neilep

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Re: Jupiter..What if it were a Sun ?
« Reply #2 on: 10/11/2005 21:19:10 »
Thanks Eth,

Yep, I thought the same...I was wonderingif there would be any latent solar wind or magnetic interfernce or perhaps our Sun would just blow all that lot away.

What about nights ?...would it have any effect on illuminating the planet...albeit 400,000,000-600,000,000 miles away  ?......hmmmmm...methinks me knows the answer already.........no !.....

Mars ?...would it brighten up Mars ?

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Offline Simmer

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Re: Jupiter..What if it were a Sun ?
« Reply #3 on: 11/11/2005 21:08:42 »
Well Jupiter is about a tenth of the diameter of the sun, so about a thousandth of the volume.  I'm guessing that means about 1000th of the power output?

The Sun is about 142 million miles from Mars while the closest Jupiter gets is 344 million miles.

So (if all my assumptions are correct) at closest approach Jupiter would contribute <0.025% as much energy as the Sun to Mars. :)
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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Re: Jupiter..What if it were a Sun ?
« Reply #4 on: 11/11/2005 21:51:43 »
Simmer - I knew that but I didn't want to show off! heh ;)
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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Re: Jupiter..What if it were a Sun ?
« Reply #5 on: 11/11/2005 21:54:49 »
Just 1 little point, though. It's surface area & temperature that determines a star's luminosity, not its volume
« Last Edit: 11/11/2005 21:55:34 by DoctorBeaver »
 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: Jupiter..What if it were a Sun ?
« Reply #6 on: 12/11/2005 01:33:23 »
originally posted by simmer

Well Jupiter is about a tenth of the diameter of the sun, so about a thousandth of the volume. I'm guessing that means about 1000th of the power output?

--------------------------

Ok I know I’m going to be wrong but doesn’t that assume that the density of the two objects is the same. As the sun is larger doesn’t its increased gravitational pull on itself increase the density of its mass making the suns volume much larger than 1000 x that of Jupiter. And as a denser sun is a hotter sun? wouldnt it give out more than 1000x the output or brightness as well.


As i said i'm probably wrong...Do I need to hide away in shame and learn something very basic.[:I] :)


Michael                                      
« Last Edit: 12/11/2005 03:15:01 by ukmicky »
 

another_someone

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Re: Jupiter..What if it were a Sun ?
« Reply #7 on: 12/11/2005 02:53:56 »
quote:

originally posted by Simmer
Well Jupiter is about a tenth of the diameter of the sun, so about a thousandth of the volume. I'm guessing that means about 1000th of the power output?

The Sun is about 142 million miles from Mars while the closest Jupiter gets is 344 million miles.

So (if all my assumptions are correct) at closest approach Jupiter would contribute <0.025% as much energy as the Sun to Mars.



It sounds totally reasonable to me.  My data books say, if I interpret the tables correctly, that the mass of the Sun is 1047 times that of Jupiter.

The other factor is that without the high density of matter in the Sun, created by its enormous gravitational, how would there be sufficient pressure to initiate hydrogen fusion (assuming enough hydrogen exists in Jupiter – it has hydrogen, but is also has many other elements that would get in the way of the fusion reaction, so the question is whether the ratio of hydrogen to other elements is enough to permit fusion)?

If Jupiter were, despite those limitations, to explode into hydrogen fusion, the biggest significance I would have though would have been the impact of that on the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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Re: Jupiter..What if it were a Sun ?
« Reply #8 on: 12/11/2005 14:48:55 »
But if its mass doesn't increase, neither will its gravitational field. Therefore, its gravitational effect on other objects will remain the same.
The only way I can see that it could affect anything else would be by heat. I dare say there would be a significant impact on its own moons (Europa, being very icy, would undoubtedly be greatly affected by warming) but would enough heat reach the asteroid belt to have an effect? I know the sun affects comets further out than the orbit of Jupiter. If there are gas pockets inside asteroids I suppose heat from a Jupiter star would be a factor. But if they're solid rock, I doubt it.
 

another_someone

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Re: Jupiter..What if it were a Sun ?
« Reply #9 on: 12/11/2005 15:34:29 »
quote:
Originally posted by DoctorBeaver

But if its mass doesn't increase, neither will its gravitational field. Therefore, its gravitational effect on other objects will remain the same.
The only way I can see that it could affect anything else would be by heat. I dare say there would be a significant impact on its own moons (Europa, being very icy, would undoubtedly be greatly affected by warming) but would enough heat reach the asteroid belt to have an effect? I know the sun affects comets further out than the orbit of Jupiter. If there are gas pockets inside asteroids I suppose heat from a Jupiter star would be a factor. But if they're solid rock, I doubt it.



I was to some extent wondering this myself.

The point is, it is not only giving off heat, it is actually exploding, and thus burning itself off.  It will consume its own mass, both by the energy of nuclear fusion (which will only be a very small percentage, but greater than zero), but more directly by expelling its hot exhaust (i.e. creating a Jupiter wind akin to the solar wind).  All of these effects would be slight by comparison to the effect of the Sun, but it would have an effect on object that pass close by (i.e. I would guess probably most things that are presently effected by the gravity of Jupiter, which includes the asteroid belt).  Thus, those bodies that are affected by the gravity of Jupiter, will over time have less of Jupiter to affect them (and, Jupiter, being so much smaller than the Sun, will almost certainly burn itself out quicker), but will also be affected by the pressure of the Jupiter wind pushing them away from Jupiter.  Ofcourse, added to this, would be the slight effect of the radiation pressure from the burning Jupiter, but I would guess this to be only a small fraction of the effect (though complementary to it) of the Jupiter wind.
 

Offline neilep

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Re: Jupiter..What if it were a Sun ?
« Reply #10 on: 12/11/2005 20:17:02 »
....But those black monolith things may be very heavy and be an infinite source of power ! ! !...sheesh you guys !!

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another_someone

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Re: Jupiter..What if it were a Sun ?
« Reply #11 on: 12/11/2005 21:09:26 »
quote:
Originally posted by neilep

....But those black monolith things may be very heavy and be an infinite source of power ! ! !...sheesh you guys !!



Well, if they are that heavy, they'd kinda shift the centre of mass of whatever planet they were sitting on, and so alter its axis of rotation quite considerably. :)

Oh, and infinite power sounds to me very like perpetual motion.
« Last Edit: 12/11/2005 21:16:06 by another_someone »
 

Offline Ray hinton

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Re: Jupiter..What if it were a Sun ?
« Reply #12 on: 05/02/2006 22:10:16 »
WELL JUDGING BY THE FACT THAT THE ALIENS ( the big black monolith makers )GOT JUPITER TO GO THERMO-NUCLEAR IN THE FIRST PLACE, I GUESS THEY WOULD HAVE DONE ALL THE MATHS FOR US,LEAVING US TO ENJOY THE COSTA-DEL-MARS.
 

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Re: Jupiter..What if it were a Sun ?
« Reply #12 on: 05/02/2006 22:10:16 »

 

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