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Offline chris

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Cannabis
« on: 06/11/2002 22:12:36 »
The following news flash just came up on the doctors.net.uk site - I thought people here might be interested, particularly in view of the MS question asked by another visitor previously...

"A cannabis medicine could be available in Britain next year following the success of trials, it was announced yesterday.
Trials of a cannabis spray have shown that it can reduce pain, spasticity and sleep disturbance.

The drug was compared with a placebo in the trial involving 350 patients, many of them suffering from multiple sclerosis, developer GW Pharmaceuticals said.

The company said it was undertaking a further five sets of phase III trials.

Dr Philip Robson, medical director of GW medical director, said: "The results show statistically significant reductions in neuropathic pain, which is recognised as being difficult to treat and is often particularly distressing.

"There were also significant improvements in other symptoms in patients with MS, notably spasticity and sleep disturbance. "



 

Offline george

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Re: Cannabis
« Reply #1 on: 13/11/2002 20:19:19 »
I'm sorry but I just don't agree with the concept of 'legalising' cannabis. True, some people might get some benefit from its medicinal purposes, or perhaps they are just too zonked out on it to notice, nor care any more that they are ill, but what sort of message does it send out to 'healthy' people that this drug is now legal. Look at the problems associated with the other 2 legal drugs - alcohol and cigarettes. Nothing but trouble.

I say keep hash illegal. It's a recipe for disaster. And won't it encourage people to smoke ? Studies have shown that hash smoke is far worse for you than plain tobacco. Everyone will be wandering around like a zombie.

George
 

Offline Donnah

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Re: Cannabis
« Reply #2 on: 12/04/2003 17:43:54 »
Well let's not throw out the baby with the bath water!  While I agree that alcohol and cigarettes are detrimental, I have seen ill people reap huge benefits from the use (as opposed to abuse) of mj.  

Get someone drunk and put them behind the wheel of a vehicle and chances are they will put the "pedal to the metal" and roar down the road.  Get someone stoned on mj and put them behind the wheel and they will likely putt along at about 15km/hr.  While I disagree with driving while under the influence of anything that alters perception, there will probably always be abusers.  Why not make alcohol (made by man) illegal and mj (made by Mother Nature) legal?  

Anyone got any information on how smoking affects driving?
« Last Edit: 14/04/2003 00:27:22 by Donnah »
 

Offline NakedScientist

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Re: Cannabis
« Reply #3 on: 13/04/2003 23:35:33 »
GW Pharmaceuticals have announced 'Sativex', an aerosol dispenser for THC (tetrahydrocannabinol, the active ingredient in marijuana). The aerosol is designed to dispense the drug sublingually (beneath the tongue), thus avoiding the need to smoke hash to derive the pharmacological benefits. It also has the added advantage of a)being legal as it will be available on prescription, and b) you avoid marijuana-induced lung disease.

Good eh ?

Incidentally, the source of the THC used in the spray is 40,000 hash plants that the company have been licensed to cultivate at a secret location in SE England ! Bet there are 1 or 2 hippies would love to know the location of that 'farm' !

TNS
« Last Edit: 14/04/2003 09:09:12 by NakedScientist »
 

Offline Exodus

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Re: Cannabis
« Reply #4 on: 14/04/2003 00:32:46 »
Donnah, i don't agree with drugs and don't do them. I've spoken to people and from what i can make out, surely if someone smoked and drove, they would have slower reactions or be likely to make rash decisions?

Thats Economics...
 

Offline pat

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Re: Cannabis
« Reply #5 on: 14/04/2003 09:10:21 »
Seconded.
 

Offline Donnah

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Re: Cannabis
« Reply #6 on: 16/04/2003 06:38:15 »
Slower reactions and difficulty making decisions?  Quite possibly.   As I said, I disagree with driving while impaired (altered perception) in any way, shape or form.    

What about cell phones, and other distractions?  I saw a woman driving who was smoking a cigarette, drinking coffee, and talking on the phone.  This left me wondering what appendages were left to operate her car[V].
 

Offline chris

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Re: Cannabis
« Reply #7 on: 16/04/2003 10:49:42 »
Surprising - it's usually phone, lipstick and nail varnish being applied to various bits of the body, commonly whilst stopped at the traffic lights (which are usually green), with an angry hoard of motorists sitting frustradely behind.

Men are just content to pick their noses...!

Chris
 

Offline Donnah

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Re: Cannabis
« Reply #8 on: 17/04/2003 04:48:16 »
Thanks for that bit of enlightenment, Chris:D.

Do you suppose that if men quit checking out women so much [:p] that women would be less concerned with their looks[:X]?
« Last Edit: 17/04/2003 04:58:43 by Donnah »
 

Offline chris

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Re: Cannabis
« Reply #9 on: 17/04/2003 12:00:22 »
Nope.
 

Offline shug

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Re: Cannabis
« Reply #10 on: 26/10/2003 13:15:27 »
quote:
Originally posted by Exodus

Donnah, i don't agree with drugs and don't do them. I've spoken to people and from what i can make out, surely if someone smoked and drove, they would have slower reactions or be likely to make rash decisions?

Thats Economics...



They tend to drive slower and more safely. Thats according to US Dept of Transportation research carried out in real life situations in the Netherlands.
See newbielink:http://www.ukcia.org/research/driving.htm [nonactive]

The Netherlands have never reported any problem with cannabis and driving despite their 25 years or tolerating use.

Even the UK's Dept of Transport failed to find any evidence that cannabis is detrimental to driving.
"The main conclusion from this report is that there is insufficient evidence of the accident risk associated with cannabis"
See newbielink:http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_rdsafety/documents/page/dft_rdsafety_504567-12.hcsp [nonactive]

Hugh Robertson
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Norwich NR3 3WB
 

Offline Donnah

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Re: Cannabis
« Reply #11 on: 26/10/2003 21:50:50 »
I have recovered from fibromyalgia, and one herb helped me tremendously.  It eased pain, relaxed muscle spasms, enabled me to get the sleep my body required to heal, and gave me a much needed mental break.  It was gentle on my body, unlike the morphine, codeine and Fiorinal that were injected or prescribed.  I wholeheartedly support the legalization of this amazing plant.  Marijuana is good medicine and to bring relief and pleasure into a pain-filled world is the right thing to do.
 

Offline chris

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Re: Cannabis
« Reply #12 on: 27/10/2003 11:02:45 »
I have had a look at the report by the Dept. of Transport which seems to tell a slightly different story that the somewhat subjective and biased interpretation offered by shug :

"Evidence of impairment from the consumption of cannabis has been reported by studies using laboratory tests, driving simulators and on-road observation. The laboratory tests generally indicate acute impairment of memory, attention and psychomotor control. Both simulation and road trials generally find that driving behaviour shortly after consumption of larger doses of cannabis results in (i) a more cautious driving style; (ii) increased variability in lane position (and headway); and (iii) longer decision times. Whereas these results indicate a 'change' from normal conditions, they do not necessarily reflect 'impairment' in terms of performance effectiveness since few studies report increased accident risk. However, the results do suggest 'impairment' in terms of performance efficiency given that the increased compensatory effort resulting from cannabis use limits the available resources to cope with any additional, unexpected or high demand, events.

In conclusion, cannabis impairs driving behaviour..."[/i]

A car is a potentially lethal weapon. It is totally irresponsible to suggest that people drive better when they have taken cannabis. This is a misinterpretation of the facts. It's like building an atomic bomb and then claiming it's safe - simply because no one has tested it properly by the time you make the claim.


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Offline shug

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Re: Cannabis
« Reply #13 on: 27/10/2003 19:17:17 »
quote:
Originally posted by chris

I have had a look at the report by the Dept. of Transport which seems to tell a slightly different story that the somewhat subjective and biased interpretation offered by shug :



I didn't interpret, I quoted from their conclusion. If there is a problem, why is it not shown by the research. There are 5-7 million users in the UK alone - where are the bodies? There aren't any and there is no evidence that cannabis makes you a dangerous driver.

If you read further you'll see the bit you quoted means - cannabis drivers drive further behind the vehicle in front. Shocking dangerous behaviour!



Hugh Robertson
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Norwich NR3 3WB
 

Offline chris

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Re: Cannabis
« Reply #14 on: 27/10/2003 22:32:23 »
Yes, it also states that "the results do suggest 'impairment' in terms of performance efficiency given that the increased compensatory effort resulting from cannabis use limits the available resources to cope with any additional, unexpected or high demand, events"...

...indicating that even if they are miles behind the car in front, a person under the influence of cannabis has a reduced capacity to react sufficiently fast to counter the unexpected.

Would you be happy to have a surgeon operate on you, under emergency conditions requiring rapid responses to changing circumstances, whilst under the influence of a drug ?



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Offline Donnah

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Re: Cannabis
« Reply #15 on: 27/10/2003 23:17:12 »
I think that people should refrain from driving while under the influence of cannabis, alcohol, fatigue or any of the numerous other factors that can reduce the capacity to react appropriately.  Cannabis is useful, so is morphine, but neither of them belongs in the driver's seat.  Drunk or stoned drivers are easy to spot on the road, and the stoned ones are usually too far away and going too slow to scare me, but the drunks are very aggressive and frightening.  What I'm driving at is that cannabis abusers are, in my mind,  a much lesser evil than alcohol abusers.
« Last Edit: 27/10/2003 23:21:13 by Donnah »
 

Offline bezoar

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Re: Cannabis
« Reply #16 on: 28/10/2003 04:27:31 »
You know, I can't remember the name of the drug but the THC in pill form is already in use in the US for our AIDS and cancer patients as an appetite stimulant.  And heroin used to be the drug of choice for child birth.  And CocaCola used to have cocaine in it.  Any drug, in the proper place with good control has its merit.  And abuse is abuse, whether legal or illegal, prescribed or street drug.  

Had a case recently with a lawyer where a woman was taking prescribed drugs for pain and got into an accident that resulted in a fatality.  Seems they recently put her on Oxycontin (long acting morphine).  Trying to use it sparingly, she broke the pill in half and took it, thereby destroying the time release mechanism and giving herself a big dose of morphine all at once.  Fell asleep at the wheel and killed someone.  Normally, this woman functioned on doses of medication that would have put all of us to sleep, however no one cautioned her not to break the pills, and she hadn't developed a tolerance to the morphine yet.  Bad news for the other driver.
 

Offline Donnah

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Re: Cannabis
« Reply #17 on: 28/10/2003 17:25:19 »
Very sad.  Now she's got more pain to live with.  

Recently I had to swerve into the next lane to avoid a driver whose driving pattern was that of a person heavily sedated.  Lucky for me the driver beside me saw and moved over, giving me an escape route.  When I reported her license number, the police told me that they could phone the registered owner and discuss the issue, but could only charge her if I could identify the driver.  In this case I feel that making her aware of how badly she was driving may be enough.

I have a friend who is a single parent with cancer.  She's frequently on morphine but still has to get her children to and from school, pick up groceries and all those good things.  I'd like to see a better support system for people like her.
 

Offline shug

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Re: Cannabis
« Reply #18 on: 28/10/2003 19:49:10 »
quote:
Originally posted by chris

Yes, it also states that "the results do suggest



I've heard hundreds of suggestions. Please provide peer-reviewed cites that prove, not "suggest", to back up your opinions.



Hugh Robertson
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Offline chris

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Re: Cannabis
« Reply #19 on: 28/10/2003 22:14:58 »
Mate - it's exactly the same reference that you quoted from earlier on in this piece but is the bit that you forgot to mention - maybe the hash is affecting your memory ;)

"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
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Offline shug

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Re: Cannabis
« Reply #20 on: 29/10/2003 19:19:08 »
quote:
Originally posted by chris

Mate - it's exactly the same reference that you quoted from earlier on in this piece but is the bit that you forgot to mention - maybe the hash is affecting your memory ;)



I didn't forget it, it is not evidence, merely a suggestion. Please provide some science to back up your personal opinion.
Thanks

Hugh Robertson
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drkev

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Re: Cannabis
« Reply #21 on: 29/10/2003 21:43:35 »
Now this is a situation I have been in before....

When people talk about the legalisation of Cannabis someone always says "Yeah but Alcohol is legal and that's more dangerous" or "But Tobacco is legal"

The legalisation of a drug should not be based upon the fact that another possibly more dangerous drug is legal. The deciscion must be purely based upon the merits of the Cannabis itself.

Now that we have moved that aside, here is some of what I have learned during the research of this drug.

The main ingredients in Cannabis that we must concern ourselves with when considering the medical benefits of Cannabis are the Cannabinoids of which there are over 60 including: Tetra hydra cannabinol, Cannabidol propyl analogue etc

All the Cannabinoids have analgesic properties, anti spasmodic effects and act as anti convulsants. They also have an anti emetic effect and appetite stimulant properties.

However cannabis can produce adverse mood effects leading to anxiety, depression and paranoia.

Cannabis can produce acute psychosis, confusion and amnesia.

Cannabis use causes increased heart rate by 20%-100%. Postural blood pressure is also affected.

However, the risk of overdose is nil as the acute toxicity risk very low.

When cannabis is smoked, 4 times the amount of tar is deposited on the lungs when compared to tobacco.

Use of cannabis has been linked to bronchitis, increased abnormalities in bronchial tissue when compared to smokers, erythema and is 3 times more carcinogenic than tobacco.

There have also been cases of cancer found in the digestive tracts of young people with a history of cannabis use. This is significant because this is rarely found in people under the age of 60 even among tobacco smokers.

THC also inhibits reproductive function resulting in decreased fertility in Men.

My essay is 4500 words long so I do not wish to reproduce it here!!!

Instead I hope I have introduced you to some of the FACTS.

Without more research on the harmful effects of this drug I do not support legalisation.

Live long and Love life

Kevin Fisher
 

Offline NakedScientist

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Re: Cannabis
« Reply #22 on: 30/10/2003 00:24:28 »
Dear Kevin

your essay sounds interesting - how would you like to submit it, or a shortened version, to the Naked Science articles section on the site ?

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/articles/article/columnmenu.htm

TNS
 

drkev

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Re: Cannabis
« Reply #23 on: 30/10/2003 12:48:31 »
I will abridge it and send it for your approval with full references in case people want to research it further.

Live long and Love life

Kevin Fisher
 

Offline NakedScientist

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Re: Cannabis
« Reply #24 on: 30/10/2003 14:41:27 »
Dear Kevin

yes please, that sounds great. Please endeavour to include some diagrams and images with it (please note, it is your responsibility to secure copyright permissions on all images and diagrams that you submit).

If it is too long it is always possible to turn it into a series of articles, each inn turn tackling a different aspect of the pharmacology of cannabis.

This will be good CV points if we can get it published for you.

TNS
 

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Re: Cannabis
« Reply #24 on: 30/10/2003 14:41:27 »

 

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