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Author Topic: Who Owns My File In The Cloud ? (A Cloud Computing Question)  (Read 5706 times)

Offline neilep

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Dearest Peeps Of Intrinsic Data That Ewe Share So Freely & Well,

As a sheep I of course luff clouds, after all they look like me , without a head and legs and tail !!...

As ewe may know...there is a thing called Cloud Computing...it's when those nice people at Google* have suspended some computers in clouds and thus enabled users like me to put my files on these computers...




....and this is a true bona-fide picture of cloud computing in action.



Cloud Computing In Action Earlier Today.

Here is a link to Wikipedias article on it

What I would like to know though is who now owns those documents that I have put on their computers ?..me ?..them ?..do I share the ownership ?

whajafink ?



Hugs & shmishes


Neil
Every Cloud Has A Silver Commodore Pet
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx





*Other equally good Cloud Computing services are also available but if those nice people at Google wish to send me a few million dollars I'll happily delete this reference to other services .


 

Offline LeeE

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Who Owns My File In The Cloud ? (A Cloud Computing Question)
« Reply #1 on: 03/03/2010 05:26:10 »
You need to check the T&C.
 

Offline Geezer

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Who Owns My File In The Cloud ? (A Cloud Computing Question)
« Reply #2 on: 03/03/2010 05:52:40 »
I don't think you have 100% control of any document, whether it's in a cloud server or a paper document locked in your filing cabinet. There are laws that can require you to reveal it, wherever it is.

Personally, I think the virtual model for storage is the way to go. Leaving sensitive data hanging around on a PC is probably the least secure thing you can do with it. There have been too many cases of employees copying a bunch of sensitive files on to laptops which are subsequently stolen.

"Hey! Hugh! Get off of MacLeod!"
« Last Edit: 03/03/2010 06:09:09 by Geezer »
 

Offline yor_on

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Who Owns My File In The Cloud ? (A Cloud Computing Question)
« Reply #3 on: 03/03/2010 09:33:48 »
I have the total opposite view Geezer. Your original inventions material software etc you should keep locally, not globally. Prime examples of why are Google, Hotmail, all those offering you free 'online scans for 'virus', stinking blog companies, all of them keeping your materials as their own as soon as you 'sign up' for the account. There was a recent story in Sweden of a mother wanting to take down the 'blog' of her son that tragically had died but the company responsible just refused. Stinkers the lot of them, and stupid if you don't know what you're doing. The kids today are getting used to having no privacy, as that is what modern commercialism offers them, behind the BS of never 'selling any information'. How about selling the company f.ex?


When you're leaving your source material in someones else's care, you're in fact telling them that they are free to do what they want, as long as you don't discover it. Trust is nice, but when it comes to planned patents and your companies fiscal and personnel records? You're sure you're that trusting..

The definition for a secure NT Server is "Locked down in a cellar, door closed with no outside access whatsoever and no net, Internet included." And no, it's not mine invention. And how are you ever going to prove that someone snitched your idea? "That bit is mine!!"

Reminds me of how the States fought Zimmerman's free algorithms for secure cryptography (open and closed keys) and how NSA tried to force all companies using such to leave a 'back door'. Kind'a stinks, especially since there been a lot of complaints against the way European companies ,strangely enough, always in the last minute, gets outbid by American companies.

So no, use local storage and encrypt it too. Keep your backups elsewhere, not on the Internet. Strange how commercial companies try to encompass the idea we once had of a free and sharing Internet community, but in such a commercial way :) at the same time as they otherwise try to regulate us ordinary users as much as they are allowed by their respective states.
« Last Edit: 03/03/2010 09:51:18 by yor_on »
 

Offline neilep

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Who Owns My File In The Cloud ? (A Cloud Computing Question)
« Reply #4 on: 03/03/2010 12:09:32 »
You need to check the T&C.

Thanks LeeE

Terms & Conditions ?..I don't recall seeing any..I just signed in.....I'll go check but I do enjoy my google docs.
 

Offline neilep

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Who Owns My File In The Cloud ? (A Cloud Computing Question)
« Reply #5 on: 03/03/2010 12:12:44 »
I don't think you have 100% control of any document, whether it's in a cloud server or a paper document locked in your filing cabinet. There are laws that can require you to reveal it, wherever it is.

Personally, I think the virtual model for storage is the way to go. Leaving sensitive data hanging around on a PC is probably the least secure thing you can do with it. There have been too many cases of employees copying a bunch of sensitive files on to laptops which are subsequently stolen.

"Hey! Hugh! Get off of MacLeod!"

Thanks Geezer.....I appreciate your comment and I do think that in part, people in the future may use more on-line cloud servers and perhaps retain the most delicate of data elsewhere perhaps. Although, i know there are laws which can force one to reveal the documents my question is one of who actually owns them once they've been uploaded to the cloud.
 

Offline neilep

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Who Owns My File In The Cloud ? (A Cloud Computing Question)
« Reply #6 on: 03/03/2010 12:27:46 »
I have the total opposite view Geezer. Your original inventions material software etc you should keep locally, not globally. Prime examples of why are Google, Hotmail, all those offering you free 'online scans for 'virus', stinking blog companies, all of them keeping your materials as their own as soon as you 'sign up' for the account. There was a recent story in Sweden of a mother wanting to take down the 'blog' of her son that tragically had died but the company responsible just refused. Stinkers the lot of them, and stupid if you don't know what you're doing. The kids today are getting used to having no privacy, as that is what modern commercialism offers them, behind the BS of never 'selling any information'. How about selling the company f.ex?


When you're leaving your source material in someones else's care, you're in fact telling them that they are free to do what they want, as long as you don't discover it. Trust is nice, but when it comes to planned patents and your companies fiscal and personnel records? You're sure you're that trusting..

The definition for a secure NT Server is "Locked down in a cellar, door closed with no outside access whatsoever and no net, Internet included." And no, it's not mine invention. And how are you ever going to prove that someone snitched your idea? "That bit is mine!!"

Reminds me of how the States fought Zimmerman's free algorithms for secure cryptography (open and closed keys) and how NSA tried to force all companies using such to leave a 'back door'. Kind'a stinks, especially since there been a lot of complaints against the way European companies ,strangely enough, always in the last minute, gets outbid by American companies.

So no, use local storage and encrypt it too. Keep your backups elsewhere, not on the Internet. Strange how commercial companies try to encompass the idea we once had of a free and sharing Internet community, but in such a commercial way :) at the same time as they otherwise try to regulate us ordinary users as much as they are allowed by their respective states.


Thanks Yoron

I feel totally refuelled with my daily injection of cynicism. I have to say, I too am about as cynical as they get and make sure that the things I keep on the cloud are not too sensitive.

But do you think that  it's really possible that Google and Yahoo etc etc have a modus operandi that pursues the scrutiny of every document stored on their server for their commercial interest ?
 

Offline yor_on

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Who Owns My File In The Cloud ? (A Cloud Computing Question)
« Reply #7 on: 03/03/2010 13:14:49 »
Nope, not normally, and in a sea of mackerel the barracuda disappear :)
But It's a typical freehanded 'great brother syndrome' from all of them.
"We are offering you a service and therefore you should be grateful."

BullShit, I'm doing them a service by using their phreaking system, therefore increasing their revenue, but that does not include allowing them to treat my intellectual, or otherwise, property as their own.

And the blog systems and Email providers stinks of overblown ego today. And what they promise you today won't be valid tomorrow. NSA have already, at least I think it was them, tried to get access to Google's database, where all your mail will be kept, no matter if you yourself have 'deleted' them from your account they will still exist there ready for retrieval. I think they lost, this time, but who knows? NSA won't tell you :) And if Goggle had to 'adapt' to NSA? What's surprising with that. Those buggers already did it with a country having over one million people in what's called 'concentration camps', defined as such by their own inhabitants nota bene, not me. And then have the stomach to complain when they find the same regime hacking their Chinese database.. Are they *** Awh, those poor geniuses, they didn't 'know' did they :)

If you want to look at it as cynical you're free to do so, I call it common sense. People are more and more becoming their work, and free thought seems soon to become only a memory..

WT* :)
Ranting ain't I ::))

My problem Neil, is that I'm all to trusting, just as you :)

==
I can see a lot of ways to manipulate those mails for *information purposes*, just looking who's name will link to whom etc..There are really *fast* computers available now that can read, and also draw conclusions, helped by very sophisticated software. Today, not SF..

The digital information and disinformation war is just in its cradle. And how many consider their words in their mails? Or make the effort to encrypt. Did you know that most states want it to become illegal to encrypt, and that they already limit the encryption you're allowed. As for the encryption available in the browsers I don't remember how many bits there was but I know that not all of those encryption 'bits' available for you was 'secure' as the browsers companies (American) had to make the first (40 first bits? in a 128 bit 'secure') 'keys/bits' open for NSA so they wouldn't have to much trouble deciphering them, every bit in a encryption doubles the possibilities... And even though this is some time ago (eight/ten years?) it wouldn't surprise me if it still was valid in one way or another.

Take a look here for phones.
Phones
===

Grumpy? Why?
ME???
« Last Edit: 03/03/2010 14:04:14 by yor_on »
 

Offline LeeE

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Who Owns My File In The Cloud ? (A Cloud Computing Question)
« Reply #8 on: 03/03/2010 14:49:15 »
"Hey! Hugh! Get off of MacLeod!"

Groan!!  :D
 

Offline Geezer

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Who Owns My File In The Cloud ? (A Cloud Computing Question)
« Reply #9 on: 03/03/2010 20:07:23 »
Yoron,

The black helicopter that's loitering over your house doesn't happen to say Google on the side by any chance?   

;D

 

Offline yor_on

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« Reply #10 on: 05/03/2010 14:32:19 »
Haven't dared to look Geezer :)
You know how it is, just turn on the telly and see...

Did you know that EEC have made a new record in idiocracy. Craving that all communication over the I-net have to be saved, Germany have suddenly realized that it's against the constitution :) Sweden don't seem to have one any more? Ah well, it's all about yourself and what you accept, ain't it?

And the same argument always come up in this kind of discussions, don't it?
"If you don't have anything to hide? Why are you complaining?"

Gestapo probably said the same when they came around four AM to collect you :)
And a lot of others 'services' trust in it too. We're actually dismantling most of the progress we have when it comes to the individual rights today, Makes it hard for us to complain about other, uglier, regimes don't it? As we have the same system soon enough, just hidden in a silk glove. Read in the paper today about a guy, Yung i think his name was? Tortured and executed because he had the effrontery to call a friend in South Korea to complain over the rice prices in Northern Korea? Well, we're not there. But as we dismantle the protection for individuals rights to  f.ex privacy, free speech, and all those other rights we think is our birth right, your 'law' won't put any obstacles in the way when times get harder.

People don't seem to notice it?
Ranting again :)
Don't know why.

==

What P**es me off is the fact that our constitution have come out of misery and blood over hundreds of years, but some ego-driven politicians can dismantle them over mere decades. And we, 'the people' don't even have enough history in us to see what we're loosing.
« Last Edit: 05/03/2010 14:47:34 by yor_on »
 

Offline Geezer

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Who Owns My File In The Cloud ? (A Cloud Computing Question)
« Reply #11 on: 05/03/2010 22:13:43 »
Unfortunately, the bad guys have learned how to use technology too. I suppose if everyone would just behave themselves, we would not need all this intrusive stuff.

"Utopia! Utopia! Wherefore art thou Utopia?"

TZG
 

Offline yor_on

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Who Owns My File In The Cloud ? (A Cloud Computing Question)
« Reply #12 on: 06/03/2010 01:03:35 »
They've been there since the beginning :)
And the harm they do is the price we pay for being free.

It's like everywhere else.
 

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Who Owns My File In The Cloud ? (A Cloud Computing Question)
« Reply #12 on: 06/03/2010 01:03:35 »

 

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