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Author Topic: Concept of self-sustaining motor assembly  (Read 12145 times)

jsaldea12

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Concept of self-sustaining motor assembly
« on: 04/03/2010 08:20:04 »



 
                 CONCEPT OF SELF-SUSTAINING MOTOR ASSEMBLY


Presented here is original basic concept of Self-Sustaining AC & DC, Vertical & Horizontal Motor Assembly.

With reference to Figure 1, is  shown the  perspective  of  simple vertical variation of either AC or DC  self-sustaining motor  assembly A. As shown, the electric motor 1 and elongated generator 2 have common shaft 3, common two bearings 4, common frame 5, and common stand 6. At top of the shaft is attached a pulley 7 and string 8 with loose end 8-a. Shown further is the internal electrical line 9 connecting the generator 2 to electric motor 1. Also an output electrical line 10 of generator 2.The electric motor 1 has WIDER WIDTH 1-a than the generator 2., thus with longer leverage, stronger torque, capable of overcoming mass resistance that, even though the, advisably, hi-speed electric motor has, say, one HP, it is capable of driving,  rotating, the much larger, say  six HP generator 2 because of compensating  longer leverage. As illustrated, the bottom shaft 3-a has oval shaped (or with installed roller bearing)  sitting over the water-cool adjustable base 11.

The simple operation is as follows: Roll the adequate string 8 with loose end 8-a to pulley 7, then pull the string 7 until completely loosen. But in the process, adequately cause the common electric motor 1 and generator 2 to rotation, and for generator 2 to produce electricity, part of such electrical output is channeled to the electric motor 1 thru internal line 9 to cause said electric motor 1 to rotation and drive the generator 2 to rotation synchronously, and for the generator 2 to produce electricity to self-feed electric motor 1, etc. The other part of electrical output of generator 2 is channeled to its output line 10 for outside purposes, such as lighting household, driving electric fans, etc.

With reference to Figure 2 is shown horizontal variation of AC & DC motor assembly B. shown are the electric motor 1,generator 2, the common shaft 3, common two bearings 4, common frame 5, common horizontal stand 6, pulley 7, string 8 with loose end 8-a, the internal line 9 of generator 2 to electric motor 1 and to output line 10. The electric motor 1 has wider width 1-a than the  generator 2. There is no need for base11.  The simple operation is the same with Figure 1.  This horizontal variation can be converted into electric fan by installing a fan at shaft end 3-d.

This self-sustaining motor assembly can replace windmill and sun light energy devices. There are many variations, as filed pending with Bureau of Patents, Philippines, re-variations with independent driving electric motor,  with overlooking magnet preferably neo-magnet.,  with step-up, step-down feature, with driving gasoline prime mover, battery prime mover, either. DC brush or brushless.

Manufacturers are invited to construct at liberty and to market as cheaply as possible  this  one of the cheapest CLEAN ENERGY device, so that its very potential contributions at this accelerating  energy crisis will be realized.

jsaldea12   
2.28.10.
jsaldea12@yahoo.com
Jose S. Aldea, Inventor, .Chairman – Capiz Scientists & Inventors Society - Philippines
Alfredo A. Bisnar, Associate   

Geezer

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Concept of self-sustaining motor assembly
« Reply #1 on: 04/03/2010 21:04:15 »
I am sure the patent offices in many countries will be happy to receive the fees you will have to pay, and keep on paying, to maintain the patent for this device.

However, be warned. Just because they allow you to patent it, that does not mean they believe it will work. That is not their responsibility.

This appears to be a device that produces energy without energy input. Unless you are able to revise many fundamental scientific laws, it is not going to work. You will find many previous patents for similar devices. None of them worked either.

Unless you want to be pursued by a bunch of very angry investors, I suggest you abandon this notion very soon.

jsaldea12

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« Reply #2 on: 05/03/2010 00:26:37 »
 I am releasing  that FREELY because it is very urgently needed now, …should have released much earlier, ….just finally doing my share, trying to save earth, humanity, us, a filipino contribution..


The principle behind the concept of wider width electric motor is as follows:

With a lever, a 50 lbs force thrust can lift a 500 lbs weight at the opposite lever. With a long lever handle, a vise can easily unscrewed a nut of  big truck. With the  wider width electric motor, compared to generator, the longer leverage  will be stronger to capably cause the generator to rotate. thus, a 1 HP electric motor, (advisably hi-speed), will COMPENSATINGLY be capable to rotate a 7HP generator to produce self-sustaining electricity.


Jsaldea12


3.6.10


Geezer

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« Reply #3 on: 05/03/2010 01:05:42 »
thus, a 1 HP electric motor, (advisably hi-speed), will COMPENSATINGLY be capable to rotate a 7HP generator to produce self-sustaining electricity.


Trust me. A motor producing 1 HP is never going be able to drive a generator that produces 7 HP. It won't even be able to generate 1 HP because it cannot be 100% efficient.

I suggest you take a look at this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion

jsaldea12

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« Reply #4 on: 05/03/2010 04:02:15 »
Yes, I have taken that, too, into consideration. An electric motor and generator  could be, each 85-90% plus  efficient. But with the longer leverage, more output,it can ably compensate.

There is too a more efficient variation: with overlooking neo magnet lifting disk overlooking the receiving metallic disk installed on top of uppermost shaft.

Please permit me to refer to “youtube”  free energy generators” There are many  self-rotating machines, proving it can be done,  it is not against the law of physics.

Unless we try to construct it, then we will never know.


Jsaldea12

3.6.10

Bored chemist

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« Reply #5 on: 05/03/2010 06:59:30 »
Learn some science.

Geezer

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« Reply #6 on: 05/03/2010 16:55:35 »

Unless we try to construct it, then we will never know.


Then I suggest you get on with it rather than just talking about it. It doesn't look too complicated, so it should not take long to get it working.

Let us know when you can prove it generates more power than it consumes.

jsaldea12

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« Reply #7 on: 05/03/2010 22:32:20 »

Do you believe you can pull a ship with a pulley? Archimedes proved that. I am just giving the concept/principle how it can be done..at this time whe it is badly needed. IT CAN BE DONE YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE IT LIKE I DO. REGARDS.


jsaldea12

3/7/10

Geezer

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« Reply #8 on: 06/03/2010 00:41:51 »
All talk, no action.

teragram

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« Reply #9 on: 06/03/2010 00:54:49 »
If the motor and the generator were of identical diameters, and the same in all respects, the voltage produced by the generator at a particular speed would be the same as the voltage applied to the generator (this implies the machines are perfect: a physical impossibility). If as stated the motor part was of a greater diameter, it would produce a greater torque for the same input voltage and current, but would rotate at a lower speed. The voltage produced by the generator part would therefore be lower, although a greater current may be available. Again assuming perfection, the power produced would be the same, not greater. In practice of course, as neither machine is perfect, the POWER generated must be less than the power supplied.
Increasing the torque from a motor whilst reducing it’s speed does not lead to an increase in power output, this is after all what the gearbox in a car does.

jsaldea12

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« Reply #10 on: 06/03/2010 04:00:37 »
Have no funding to construct. . But bad is the Capiz State University,  my DOST  required partner,  the engineers of said University have been expressing reluctance  how to go about with the construction, besides no funding from dilly-dallying DOST.. That is why it is believed that professional manufacturers of electric motors can do it easily, they  have the machinery, and technical  human proficiency..

There are electric motors which are high speed, even 100,000 RPM, up, to compensate the longer leverage, wider circumference of rotation, and to enable to synchronize rotation with, lower speed,  smaller circumference of rotation of  smaller-width generator. This is for AC variations. For DC variations, no problem, we can use, especially, neo-magnets, makes no difference whether the rotation is fast or slow. Reiterating, the conceived variation DC self-sustaining motor assembly can and will replace windmills and solar panels as source of clean energy..

The horizontal variation (see Figure 2) can even be converted into simple electric fan. Just attach a fan, and we have an electric  fan for free.

My long research and experiments with magnet-lift is that it helps reduce friction, re-gravity friction, that efficiency is  increased , but with the conceived wider width electric motor overcoming mass inertia/resistance, the torque is definitely increased, stronger considerably, increase efficiency considerably..  .

With both magnet-lift feature and LONGER LEVERAGE feature  combined, the conceived self-sustaining motor assembly is not only possible…it is real.


Jsaldea12


3.8.10

..

Bored chemist

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« Reply #11 on: 06/03/2010 10:32:46 »
LOL
I think we should adopt Homer Simpson's opinion on this matter.
"In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics"

Incidentally, the USPO certainly won't take the fee to patent this. They stopped wasting their time on perpetual motion machines ages ago. Their criterion is that if you send them one and it's still going a year later they will talk to you about it. AFAIK they have never been taken up on this.
I think most countries patenting authorities take a similar view.

If, as I suggested, Jsaldea learned some science he would know that a lever increases the force but reduces the distance through which that force moves. The work done is the same at both ends of a lever because the two effects cancel out.
Levers are useful, not magical.

jsaldea12

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« Reply #12 on: 07/03/2010 00:34:08 »

Let me explain why all the experiments on self-sustaining motor failed, as shown in the book?  Even though the generator generates electricity to self-feed the electric motor and for the electric motor to self-drive the generator, ultimately, the generator stops. Do we know why? It is because the driving electric motor is smaller while the generator is larger, (that the synchronous smaller electric motor is installed to hang into the larger generator). thus, correspondingly, the torque that can be created by the electric motor is smaller than the created torque of the generator. In other words, the leverage of the electric motor is shorter than the leverage of the generator that the generator has excess mass leverage. As a result, the force of the electric motor is reduced and reduced, due to mass inertia/resistance caused by that excess torque of the generator, on every synchronized rotation,. .

Also, note that there are common two bearings and one common shaft for electric motor and common generator, unlike in the experiments in the books, electric motor and generator, have, each, two bearings, or  total of 4 bearings and separate shafts.

Jsaldea12

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Geezer

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« Reply #13 on: 07/03/2010 05:15:14 »
See:

Relationship between torque, power and energy

in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque

Bored chemist

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« Reply #14 on: 07/03/2010 10:59:10 »
"Let me explain why all the experiments on self-sustaining motor failed, as shown in the book?  Even though the generator generates electricity to self-feed the electric motor and for the electric motor to self-drive the generator, ultimately, the generator stops. Do we know why? "

Yes, we know why; the first and second laws of thermodynamics.
Learn about them and save yourself a lot of wasted time and effort.

jsaldea12

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« Reply #15 on: 07/03/2010 20:36:12 »
Have you seen an electric motor with installed wide kitchen knife sharpening grinder. Try to roll the grinder. Note that with a light stroke with your hand, the grinder rotates easily.. That light stroke could be just 1/30 of one HP and yet that  electric motor could be 1/2 HP. Then why is it impossible to make self-sustaining generator when it equally requires only little effort to make a well-oiled (bearing) generator roll/rotate? The answer is that, as I stated, ALL EXPERIMENTS TO CONSTRUCT SELF-SUSTAINING MACHINE HAS SMALLER ELECTRIC MOTOR THAN THE GENERATOR IT DRIVES. Because the generator has excess leverage, it has excess mass inertial resistance that on every rotation causes the generator to lessen its output until it stops.

..Read again the applicable second law on thermodynamics (though this law pertains to heat). That conceived leverage will tilt the equilibrium towards continuity of motion. Read, too, the first law of motion of Newton because  o such is based the law of physics..


Jsaldea12


3.10.10

Geezer

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« Reply #16 on: 07/03/2010 21:56:47 »
Have you considered a career in entertainment? Alas, Stanley Unwin is no longer with us, so there could be an opportunity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=323kQis2zbM

Bored chemist

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« Reply #17 on: 07/03/2010 21:57:33 »
Once again Jsaldea, I wonder if it's arrogance or stupidity that stops you learning about physics and saving yourself a lot of effort.

Someone really should lock this thread; it's never going to go anywhere useful.

jsaldea12

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« Reply #18 on: 08/03/2010 00:04:40 »
Can you not realize we are trying to save ourselves…at this time of worsening energy crisis. That is why I am releasing this concept for FREE …inviting professional manufacturers of electric motors who have the money,  machineries, and technical expertness.

Reiterating: NO ONE HAS EXPERIMENTED WITH WIDER WIDTH ELECTRIC MOTOR, compared to generator, thus, with longer, stronger leverage, stronger torque, to overcome mass inertia resistance, to capably cause generator to rotate, leading to self-sustaining  . 


Jsaldea12

3.10.10

Geezer

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« Reply #19 on: 08/03/2010 01:31:50 »
Jsaldea:

We would all like to save the planet.

We can help you understand why your scheme cannot possibly work, but somehow I think we would be wasting our time because you do not seem to be in the least bit interested in learning anything from other posters.

What exactly is your point in posting this topic? If you are not interested in receiving honest criticism of the concept, why bother posting it at all? It seems as if you just using TNS to try to get free publicity. Be advised, that is not acceptable use of this forum.

Geezer (Moderator)


jsaldea12

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« Reply #20 on: 08/03/2010 02:40:16 »


I do accept honest criticism. Thank you.

jsaldea12


3.10.10

Geezer

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« Reply #21 on: 08/03/2010 04:15:35 »
I don't think so.

Did you make any attempt to understand the link I posted regarding the relationship between torque and power? If you had, you might begin to  understand why your proposal is completely useless.

There are people on this forum who will try to help you understand, but they will not waste their time if they think you are not listening. So far, everything you have said makes it apparent the only person you are listening to is JSAldea.

Bored chemist

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« Reply #22 on: 08/03/2010 06:57:26 »


I do accept honest criticism. Thank you.

jsaldea12


3.10.10
My criticism was that you don't understand the basic thermodymamics here.

If you really accepted that criticism then you would have learned some and realised that this idea was never going to work.
You didn't, so once again I'm left with the same question.
Are you too stupid, too lazy or too conceited to learn more?

jsaldea12

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« Reply #23 on: 08/03/2010 10:30:26 »
Will you let me elaborate/explain deeper without getting into such lousy words of bored chemist?


It is quoted, “Loosely speaking, torque is a measure of the turning force on an object such as a bolt or a flywheel. For example, pushing or pulling the handle of a wrench connected to a nut or bolt produces a torque (turning force) that loosens or tightens the nut or bolt”.

..If we hold the wrench at the middle of the handle, to unloosen a nut of arrow of vehicle, there is that portion of the handle up to its end, not held, not utilized, not included in the the torque.. It is like smaller electric motor with shorter diameter, compared to larger generator with longer diameter, thereby electric motor has shorter torque while generator has longer torque. The excess length of diameter of generator, the excess torque, is the one I would like to point out that creates mass inertia resistance, that on every rotation, reduces and reduces the force of shorter torque created by electric motor. That is why ALL experiments to construct self-sustaining generator failed because smaller electric motors are used, compared to larger generator. So far no one has experimented with conceived wider width electric motor, compared to generator. There is no harm in trying. It might be true.think what it could mean at this time of worsening energy crisis. In youtube, re-free energy generators,there are many self-sustaining generators but not one has wider width electric motor..please see john Christy. This wider-width concept is just what is needed.


Jsaldea12

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2.10.10


BenV

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« Reply #24 on: 08/03/2010 10:37:12 »
But as everyone keeps trying to explain to you, your "wide-width concept" will not work.  Yes, you can get increased torque with a lever, but the work it does doesn't increase, and the power will not increase.  It really is as simple as that.

I understand Bored Chemist's frustration - you seem completely unwilling to listen or to learn about the physics involved.

Please look into the physics, then come back when you understand why you are wrong.


 

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