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Author Topic: What makes outer space super cold?  (Read 13394 times)

Offline jsaldea12

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What makes outer space super cold?
« on: 23/03/2010 06:35:29 »
What makes outer space super cold?


Outer space is some 2 to 3 kelvin super cold. What makes it super cold?
It could be that vacuum outer space is INHERENTLY SUPER-COLD..that only extremely sparse atoms in plasma state inhibits outer space.Where air molecules are abundant, like in surface of earth, temperature is made warm, while in altitude, like the top of Mt. Everest, where air molecules are sparse, ice develops. The same principle is followed in air con and ref,freon is compressed out to create sparse freon in inlet to mae air con and ref cold.

Thus, the principle: the more vacuum is space, the more cold it becomes..because cold is inherent in vacuum.


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« Last Edit: 23/03/2010 10:06:09 by BenV »


 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Re: What makes outer space super cold?
« Reply #1 on: 23/03/2010 09:10:20 »
The space itself does not possess any temperature it is the particles and radiation in it and pass through it that can be said to have a temperature.  The low temperature that you are referring to is the temperature of the cosmic microwave background.  very high energy cosmic rays are also passing through space and intercepting the earth.  these represent things with effective temperature of billions of degrees K.  the background light of the stars also represents a particular energy level and near the sun of course the radiation from the sun and the particles of the solar wind.
 

Offline yor_on

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What makes outer space super cold?
« Reply #2 on: 26/03/2010 02:59:44 »
You're right Jsaldea. All temperature is a result of motion as far as I know, and the less thingies that can move the less heat there will be. but if you remember those Rindler observers uniformly accelerating, seeing virtual energy become 'real'. Now, what would that do the temperature in the Space they were observing, relative another observer, being at rest with their origin of departure (earth) observing that 'same' spot of space as they, seeing only cold emptiness there?

It seems, if this idea is true, that we really really :) only can describe our Universe as being 'frame dependent' if so. That is, you will see what you see depending on your frame of reference, and what you see will be real for your frame, which then should mean that either have the same spot of space two 'temperatures'. One for the observer at rest with Earth and the other relative the Rindler observer, simultaneously if we then play God, remembering that both observers of that spot also ideally would be able to observe each other, which then should place them in the same SpaceTime continuum.

Or else, possibly, that 'light' as a property is an expression of something we don't really can call 'propagating' in a 'empty perfect space', or, that it's times arrow possibly creating it giving us one description uniformly moving (Earth) and another when uniformly accelerating at a constant one G. There is also the alternative that it really could be seen as 'different SpaceTimes' of course, but to me it shouldn't be possible for the observers to constantly observe each other if so?

In fact this is one of the most confusing things I can think of, similar to the way a photon is intrinsically timeless, massless but still always having the same speed, uncaring about your frame of reference relative it, and constantly existing in our observation through its interactions with particles. As Fontwell thought of lights velocity, this fact is a result of different time and distance relative your movement through space as measured against another frame.

It all seem to speak about the same fact though, that what you see yourself as observing always will be a result of your 'frame of reference', uniformly moving (free falling sort of:) earth or uniformly accelerating rocket in this case. And what really takes my breath away is that those two frame still are able to observe each other as well as the same spot of space, but still seeing two different 'realities' there.

 

Offline Geezer

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What makes outer space super cold?
« Reply #3 on: 26/03/2010 05:06:43 »
It's not that it's really cold. It is really quite normal.

We live in an environment that is anything but normal. We take that for granted, but we should not.
 

Offline jsaldea12

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What makes outer space super cold?
« Reply #4 on: 01/04/2010 07:49:30 »

Outer space is 99.99% vacuum. Particles in outer space  are in the average of 1 per 100,000 square meters. Thus such extremely sparse particles, called in state of plasma, generates heat energy of 2.7 K. What really intriguing is why do we not recognize there exists  cold, super-super cold  which is overwhelmingly  outer space that is vacuum. That is because vacuum is Vacuum is inherent in the making of cold. The more vacuum, the more , super vacuum, the more cold. Suppose the absolute zero Kelvin is attainable (and this is possible) in isolated area of unlimited, unlimited  wide outer space, thus, Kelvin temperature drops to absolute zero, in that absolute zero K, THERE IS NO HEAT ENERGY EXISTS, but will SUPER COLD EXIST?  Yes. It I common sense to think that cold, the opposite of heat exists and it exists in space, the more vacuum is the space,  the more cold is, and inversely heat energy is reduced, usi8ng Kelvin measurement, the point is  both exist, heat and cold exist.. I am in favor of using Centigrade/Celsius measurement of temperature which has both positive and negative temperature, balance, than Kelvin which pertains to heat energy only.

 Outer space is not perfect void, it is completely occupied by spacetime of Dr. Einstein, which has skein, fabric which has no mass, indivisible, not only does spacetime occupies outer space but even interior of atoms! Matters, particles, movement of particles gives heat energy, but spacetime is not divisible particles! Thus,  vacuum spacetime, vacuum of particles, having no mass, is  cold, inherently cold... .

Thus, the question, if absolute zero Kelvin is attained,  heat energy cannot not exist,  but WILL COLD exist?


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Offline JP

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What makes outer space super cold?
« Reply #5 on: 01/04/2010 09:16:59 »
I've moved this thread because the idea of "super cold" seems like a new theory, since it doesn't exist in mainstream physics.  It also makes no sense in mainstream physics.  Heat is roughly the amount of internal energy an object has. An object is cold when it doesn't have much heat energy (it's not a precise term, so you're free to define "much").  There's no need to define something called cold since that concept is entirely described by the amount of heat energy something has.
 

Offline Geezer

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What makes outer space super cold?
« Reply #6 on: 01/04/2010 17:48:36 »
Generally, I think it's the lack of heat that does it  ;D
 

Offline Bored chemist

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What makes outer space super cold?
« Reply #7 on: 01/04/2010 18:49:42 »
"the question, if absolute zero Kelvin is attained,  heat energy cannot not exist,  but WILL COLD exist?"
Since the laws of physics prevent absolute zero being stained the question has no meaning.
Cold clearly exists (that's why I just put the heating on), but only as a relative term.
 

Offline Geezer

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What makes outer space super cold?
« Reply #8 on: 01/04/2010 20:25:34 »
"the question, if absolute zero Kelvin is attained,  heat energy cannot not exist,  but WILL COLD exist?"
Since the laws of physics prevent absolute zero being stained the question has no meaning.
Cold clearly exists (that's why I just put the heating on), but only as a relative term.


I don't think cold exists. Thermal energy (heat) exists.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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What makes outer space super cold?
« Reply #9 on: 01/04/2010 22:03:46 »
OK, so why did I put the heating on?
Cold clearly does exist- it's the relative absence of heat.
 

Offline Geezer

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What makes outer space super cold?
« Reply #10 on: 01/04/2010 22:23:00 »
OK, so why did I put the heating on?
Cold clearly does exist- it's the relative absence of heat.

Okdoky.

So is "cold" negative thermal energy?
 

Offline Geezer

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What makes outer space super cold?
« Reply #11 on: 01/04/2010 22:34:32 »
...or try this.

If I take all the heat out of something, it's temperature drops to 0K

What temperature does it reach if I take all the cold out?
 

Offline jsaldea12

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What makes outer space super cold?
« Reply #12 on: 02/04/2010 01:36:36 »
But is not conceived higgs field, which occupies all outer space (uncannily like the making of spacetime) zero K temperature or below. Thus, if absolute zero K is that conceived, will  heat energy exist , or super cold energy?


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Offline Bored chemist

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What makes outer space super cold?
« Reply #13 on: 02/04/2010 11:18:06 »
OK, so why did I put the heating on?
Cold clearly does exist- it's the relative absence of heat.

Okdoky.

So is "cold" negative thermal energy?

"it's the relative absence of heat."
 

Offline Geezer

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What makes outer space super cold?
« Reply #14 on: 02/04/2010 18:02:07 »
OK, so why did I put the heating on?
Cold clearly does exist- it's the relative absence of heat.

Okdoky.

So is "cold" negative thermal energy?

"it's the relative absence of heat."


Certainly a new one on me. A reference perhaps?
 

Offline jsaldea12

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What makes outer space super cold?
« Reply #15 on: 03/04/2010 02:22:04 »
Dr. Einstein, in a speech, in 1920, quote, “The space-time theory and the kinematics of the special theory of relativity were modelled on the Maxwell-Lorentz theory of the electromagnetic field. This theory therefore satisfies the conditions of the special theory of relativity, but when viewed from the latter it acquires a novel aspect. For if K be a system of co-ordinates relatively to which the Lorentzian ether is at rest, the Maxwell-Lorentz equations are valid primarily with reference to K. But by the special theory of relativity the same equations without any change of meaning also hold in relation to any new system of co-ordinates K' which is moving in uniform translation relatively to K. Now comes the anxious question: Why must I in the theory distinguish the K system above all K' systems, which are physically equivalent to it in all respects, by assuming that the ether is at rest relatively to the K system? For the theoretician such an asymmetry in the theoretical structure, with no corresponding asymmetry in the system of experience, is intolerable. If we assume the ether to be at rest relatively to K, but in motion relatively to K', the physical equivalence of K and K' seems to me from the logical standpoint, not indeed downright incorrect, but nevertheless inacceptable”.

As as can be gleaned, Dr. Einstein spoke of “K” a number of times. What is that “K”? Is that Kelvin? At rest? Complete rest…absolute zero Kelvin.
Thus, if absolute zero Kelvin is attained in outer space/aether/spacetime, according to Dr. Einstein, it is therefore zero heat energy but WILL SUPER COLD REMAIN?
It may be inacceptable but it is NOT DOWNRIGHT INCORRECT:THAT COLD EXISTS, the more vacuum, the more cold. Outer space is awesomely unlimited 99.99% vacuum, OVERWHELMINGLY COLD  than HEAT.

It is amazing that the scientific world does not recognize that cold exists. Perhaps the super-heat Big Bang theory has substantially something to do with it, that everything started from heat which is incorrect. Spacetime came into being before Big Bang..

I believe we should recognize that cold exists by itself.


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Offline jsaldea12

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What makes outer space super cold?
« Reply #16 on: 03/04/2010 02:50:08 »
Heat energy, kinetic and potential,  is based on thermodynamic that such kinetic and potential heat energy is inherent on molecules, repeat molecules. But spacetime/ aether is not molecules, it has no mass, is indivisible, though, intersectable skein, fabric of outer space VACUUM. This spacetime, which is not making of molecules, is not in motion, is the one creating that cold property of the universe.


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Offline Bored chemist

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What makes outer space super cold?
« Reply #17 on: 03/04/2010 12:58:13 »

OK, so why did I put the heating on?
Cold clearly does exist- it's the relative absence of heat.

Okdoky.

So is "cold" negative thermal energy?

"it's the relative absence of heat."


Certainly a new one on me. A reference perhaps?
"Noun
cold (plural colds)
A condition of low temperature."
from
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cold
 

Offline BenV

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What makes outer space super cold?
« Reply #18 on: 03/04/2010 15:37:29 »
It is amazing that the scientific world does not recognize that cold exists. Perhaps the super-heat Big Bang theory has substantially something to do with it, that everything started from heat which is incorrect. Spacetime came into being before Big Bang..

I believe we should recognize that cold exists by itself.

Well let's start with a definition of cold.  I'm happy with the current one, but what's your definition?
 

Offline Geezer

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What makes outer space super cold?
« Reply #19 on: 03/04/2010 19:18:44 »

"Noun
cold (plural colds)
A condition of low temperature."
from
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cold


Ah, right.

We can raise the temperature of something that is at 0K by adding heat. Will we be able to lower the temperature below 0K by adding cold?

I think the example you cite may be a tad subjective and therefore, of little scientific value. After all, one individual might consider a particular air temperature as cold while another might consider it rather hot.

We might use the term to describe something that is at 0K of course, but it seems unlikely we will ever be able to apply it. Anything that is above 0K is, at least, slightly hot.
« Last Edit: 03/04/2010 22:38:03 by Geezer »
 

Offline jsaldea12

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What makes outer space super cold?
« Reply #20 on: 04/04/2010 01:58:45 »
It appears because cold is not recognized to exist, it has no clear definition. But the centigrade/Celsius measurement is more balance, because of positive and negative measurement..

The definition of temperature pertains only to molecular properties, kinetics and potentials. What is MISSED is that there exists spacetime which has skein, fabric, which spacetime  is not molecular, is indivisible, no mass, and without characteristic movement of molecules, it could be motionless that is why outer space is frictionless, does not hinder light.. Outer space, spacetime, is vacuum. If a molecule were the size of pingpong, it would occupy 1,000 square miles, more or less.  Thus, vacuum in outer space, proportionate to molecule  is immeasurably large. What heat energy can be generated by a molecule in that area? But vacuum outer space is inversely immeasurably large. Thus, it appears that the 2.7K which is actually super-super cold is the  unrecognized cold temperature of outer space.

I think Dr.Einstein has inkling of the existence of that cold property of vacuum outer space  in that speech of 1920..that repeated “K”..Kelvin.

Thus, reiterating, what is missing in our concept of  temperature is the existence of spacetime, which is vacuum, the source of cold. To make it complete, balance, the definition and concept of temperature must have positive and negative, balance. Positive – heat, cold – negative.

It could be that heat and cold intersect one another that heat can be there at smallest amount at bottom absolute zero k, in like matter intersecting cold can be there in smallest amount as heat temperature rises, because there is always space, vacuum though heated. It is like bar magnet, Positive and negative intersect one another that no matter how many cut and cut the bar magnet, there is always positive and negative each cut bar magnet.


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Offline jsaldea12

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What makes outer space super cold?
« Reply #21 on: 07/04/2010 01:38:17 »
In 2007, Larry  Rodnick discovered “the biggest expanse of nothing in outer space, inside the void, there is hardly any galaxies, planets, or black holes, just mostly empty space spanning an area that’s  a billion light-years across.”.

In that vast area of void, is it not very probable that an isolated portion therein is  completely void of particles, thus attaining absolute zero Kelvin in which  no heat energy exist  but will there be cold, super-super cold  in that area?


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Offline JP

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What makes outer space super cold?
« Reply #22 on: 07/04/2010 03:54:13 »
If you put a thermometer in deep space, far away from matter particles, you'd eventually measure a very low temperature (once the thermometer had radiated away its heat energy).  What's new or interesting about this?
 

Offline jsaldea12

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What makes outer space super cold?
« Reply #23 on: 07/04/2010 04:43:23 »
As stated, if in absolute zero Kelvin,  no heat energy/property  exists, will  cold, super-super cold property not exist also or will such cold property exist? The point is both heat and cold property exist in the universe..


Jsaldea1`2
 

Offline JP

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What makes outer space super cold?
« Reply #24 on: 07/04/2010 05:40:46 »
The fact that it is very cold in deep space isn't in doubt.  You can call something very hot or cold if you want, but you're only measuring heat energy, which is the measurable quantity of interest.
 

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What makes outer space super cold?
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