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Author Topic: Whats Inside Fundamental Particles?  (Read 7985 times)

Offline dont_panic

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Whats Inside Fundamental Particles?
« on: 10/12/2005 18:40:05 »
What do people think that is inside the fundamental particles- quarks leptons etc.?

Whos agrees with string theory/M-theory...?


 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Re: Whats Inside Fundamental Particles?
« Reply #1 on: 10/12/2005 23:14:06 »
Ever since I was little, back in the 1950s I've always reckoned that it would all turn out to be different ways of knotting up space-time.  OK a couple more levels of complexity have developed since then but it still looks plausible.

Multidimensional strings are a bit like vortices.  The big problem is that we're only used to coping with three space dimensions and simple time and even coping wth the complex numbers needed to explain how electricity and magnertism works can be beyond most people.

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Offline neilep

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Re: Whats Inside Fundamental Particles?
« Reply #2 on: 10/12/2005 23:30:03 »
This is a great question. Even my using my 3 X magnifying glass can not find the answer (except to discover the crack in my lens).....

...but is it ok to assume/presume that how ever small things get that the small thing itself must be made of something too...ad infinitum ?

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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Re: Whats Inside Fundamental Particles?
« Reply #3 on: 11/12/2005 02:21:09 »
I reckon everything is made from energy - except for me coz I haven't got any
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Re: Whats Inside Fundamental Particles?
« Reply #4 on: 11/12/2005 09:58:26 »
Beaver, thats probably true but a bit of a copout because energy has to be expressed in terms of something.  What you say is just an experession that we live in a dynamic moving universe (one of the reasons I don't like singularities!).

The fact that it appears possible to change all sorts of different particles into each other (although there are important rules for doing this) is an indication that there is probably some sort common source of everything.

Another property of the multiverse (as opposed to our universe) is that it will recycle in some way and our universe has a start and an end like all the other univeses that no doubt exist.  Remember we are already aware of different universes spawning from our own in the form of black holes.

As to whether we can gather enough information from within the restrictions of our own universe to prove this, is (and may remain forever) an open question.

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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Re: Whats Inside Fundamental Particles?
« Reply #5 on: 11/12/2005 13:26:27 »
quote:
Remember we are already aware of different universes spawning from our own in the form of black holes.


That's a bit contentious
 

Offline dont_panic

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Re: Whats Inside Fundamental Particles?
« Reply #6 on: 11/12/2005 19:20:56 »
All interesting theorys. I like to here the bizzare as well as the so called 'proven' ones. Beaver, you made me laugh so 10/10 :) thanks guys. Keep um coming if you think of anything else though!
 

Offline neilep

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Re: Whats Inside Fundamental Particles?
« Reply #7 on: 11/12/2005 19:32:40 »
If eveything is made from energy does that mean the Universe is made from Lucozade ?

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Offline Soul Surfer

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Re: Whats Inside Fundamental Particles?
« Reply #8 on: 11/12/2005 23:44:20 »
I define a universe as a volume of the multiverse within which material is constrained.  True it is possible for stuff to go into a black hole but once inside you can't come out so you are in your own little universe

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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Re: Whats Inside Fundamental Particles?
« Reply #9 on: 12/12/2005 00:45:39 »
quote:
True it is possible for stuff to go into a black hole but once inside you can't come out so you are in your own little universe


And squashed
 

Offline padfoot89

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Re: Whats Inside Fundamental Particles?
« Reply #10 on: 12/12/2005 15:35:17 »
And being a particle of infinite density that even  mathematics cannot define......
BLACK HOLE IS INFINITY

lobo
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Re: Whats Inside Fundamental Particles?
« Reply #11 on: 13/12/2005 08:22:17 »
See my comments on what might go on inside black holes elsewhere in the forum padfoot, your statements here and elsewhere are those of a mystic not a scientist. Mathematics has no problems with black holes its the physics that is a bit of a copout!

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Offline Mad Mark

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Re: Whats Inside Fundamental Particles?
« Reply #12 on: 17/12/2005 01:37:32 »
Time.

Tomorrow lies outside our universe without it there would be no tomorrow.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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Re: Whats Inside Fundamental Particles?
« Reply #13 on: 17/12/2005 01:59:13 »
quote:
Beaver, thats probably true but a bit of a copout because energy has to be expressed in terms of something


Isn't energy expressed as something in E=MC^2?
That implies that mass and energy are interchangeable. If that's the case then there's no reason why all the matter in a black hole shouldn't be transformed into energy. Energy takes up zero volume so infinite density becomes irrelevant
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Re: Whats Inside Fundamental Particles?
« Reply #14 on: 17/12/2005 11:18:55 »
Why should you think that energy takes up zero volume?  No texts that I know suggest this.

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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Re: Whats Inside Fundamental Particles?
« Reply #15 on: 17/12/2005 14:03:21 »
Nothing that I've ever read suggests otherwise
 

Offline dont_panic

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Re: Whats Inside Fundamental Particles?
« Reply #16 on: 17/12/2005 20:24:12 »
How could pure energy take up volume?
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Re: Whats Inside Fundamental Particles?
« Reply #17 on: 18/12/2005 00:03:53 »
The most familiar form of enegy without mass is in the form of a photon or photons of electromagnetic radiation.  In the vacuum of space a photon is always moving at the speed of light and so takes up volume purely by its motion, but electomagnetic waves also have a wavelength and cannot exist in spaces defined by conducting boundaries that are smaller than its wavelength.

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another_someone

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Re: Whats Inside Fundamental Particles?
« Reply #18 on: 18/12/2005 00:49:58 »
quote:
Originally posted by dont_panic

How could pure energy take up volume?



Is there such a thing as pure energy?

Energy and mass are interchangeable, but as far as I am aware, energy and mass are both attributes of matter.  Whether matter takes up volume is something else, but can energy exist other than as as an attribute of matter?
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Re: Whats Inside Fundamental Particles?
« Reply #19 on: 18/12/2005 17:58:39 »
Yes electromagnetic radiation is pure radiation and can travel almost indefinitely through the vacuum of space without any reference to matter at all.  Objects with mass can have mass energy as a result of their mass, potential energy as a result of their position in a gravitational field and kinetic enegy as a result of their motion

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Re: Whats Inside Fundamental Particles?
« Reply #19 on: 18/12/2005 17:58:39 »

 

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