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Author Topic: The scale of things.  (Read 4491 times)

Offline Mad Mark

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The scale of things.
« on: 19/12/2005 01:58:21 »
If all of space is expanding then are we as well?
If I was to stand next to myself from say 24 hours ago would I appear several magnitudes bigger than him?

Tomorrow lies outside our universe without it there would be no tomorrow.


 

Offline Mad Mark

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Re: The scale of things.
« Reply #1 on: 19/12/2005 02:57:50 »
Could it also be that we while the scale of the universe changes gravity does not,and remains a constant from the begining of time.
It just appears very week now as it is not in keeping with the scale of the universe.
Would an observer looking out from a singularity observe its event horizon growing in scale with the rest of space while you remain locked in your own scale from the day you fell in?

Tomorrow lies outside our universe without it there would be no tomorrow.
 

Offline Mad Mark

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Re: The scale of things.
« Reply #2 on: 19/12/2005 04:12:36 »
Is our universe a singularity in reverse moving out into its own expanded event horizon that it created.
And will the singularities that our universe  created  someday move out into their own voids created by their expanded event horizons.

Tomorrow lies outside our universe without it there would be no tomorrow.
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Re: The scale of things.
« Reply #3 on: 19/12/2005 08:00:21 »
Come on mad mark your'e really not trying in the mad ideas department.

hopw about this for a mad one courtesy of the late Sir Godfrey Hounsfield

Relativity proves that you can't ever tell the difference between gravity and a uniform acelleration si all gravitating objects could just be expanding continuously at a steady rate  :-)

Learn, create, test and tell
evolution rules in all things
God says so!
 

Offline Mad Mark

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Re: The scale of things.
« Reply #4 on: 19/12/2005 12:14:45 »
When experiments were carried out using atomic clocks traveling at different speeds relative to each other,the only thing measured was the time difference .Had scientists been able to manufacture incredbly accurate identical spheres of gold accurate down to the atomic level then they would have been able to take measurements to see if their scale between them had altered aswell.
As the difference is time is very small so would the change in scale but never the less it would be there. Then the simple math's would give then the rate of expansion in any time frame.

Tomorrow lies outside our universe without it there would be no tomorrow.
 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: The scale of things.
« Reply #5 on: 20/12/2005 00:42:00 »
posted by Mad Mark

If all of space is expanding then are we as well?
If I was to stand next to myself from say 24 hours ago would I appear several magnitudes bigger than him?


______________________________________________________________

The force which is expanding space is to weak a force  to expand individual atoms held within a galaxy because the gravitational force's within a galaxy completely overwhelms it. The only place its effects come into play are in regions between the galaxies where there are no, or very little gravitation forces.

Michael                                      
« Last Edit: 20/12/2005 00:47:51 by ukmicky »
 

Offline Solvay_1927

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Re: The scale of things.
« Reply #6 on: 21/12/2005 22:20:25 »
Mad Mark (or can I just call you "Barking" for short:D) - isn't there a fairly fundamental flaw in your thinking?

If we were expanding at the same rate as the universe, then why would we ever think the universe was expanding? If I measure the height of my house as being 5 times taller than me, then tomorrow it would still be 5 times taller than me - both me and it would have grown by the same proportion.  So I wouldn't detect the expansion.

And if all out measuring instruments were expanding at the same rate, how could we ever measure the expansion of the universe? Surely we wouldn't measure the doppler "red shift" from galaxies receding from us, because the lengthening of the wavelength of the light rays would match the increase in size of the equipment we're using to measure the wavelength. (Does that make sense?)

Or am I misunderstanding what you're suggesting?
 

Offline Mad Mark

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Re: The scale of things.
« Reply #7 on: 23/12/2005 00:26:05 »
If a ball  1 foot in diameter and 5 feet away from another ball also 1 foot in diameter was expanded by a factor of two ,each ball would be 2 feet in diameter with a distance between them of 9 feet. This would still be detected as moving away from each other.
Also even though the space between the galaxies are not subjected to gravity like galaxies are, the expansion of matter is in my (mad)opinion link to time and the inability of matter to exist from were it had previously existed.And the greater the desity of matter the greater the displacement needed for it to exist in the next moment in time.

Tomorrow lies outside our universe without it there would be no tomorrow.
 

Offline Solvay_1927

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Re: The scale of things.
« Reply #8 on: 23/12/2005 22:20:38 »
quote:
If a ball 1 foot in diameter and 5 feet away from another ball also 1 foot in diameter was expanded by a factor of two ,each ball would be 2 feet in diameter with a distance between them of 9 feet. This would still be detected as moving away from each other.


But how do you measure the 9 feet (or 10 feet, as I think it should say)? Using a 1 foot ruler? But the ruler will also have doubled in size (along with everything else in the universe), so you'll still measure the distance between the balls to be 5 "ruler lengths".  And you've no way of telling the ruler length has changed, because anything in the world (or universe) that you could compare it to - including yourself - has also changed in the same proportions.
 

another_someone

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Re: The scale of things.
« Reply #9 on: 24/12/2005 05:38:55 »
quote:
Originally posted by Solvay_1927

But how do you measure the 9 feet (or 10 feet, as I think it should say)? Using a 1 foot ruler? But the ruler will also have doubled in size (along with everything else in the universe), so you'll still measure the distance between the balls to be 5 "ruler lengths".  And you've no way of telling the ruler length has changed, because anything in the world (or universe) that you could compare it to - including yourself - has also changed in the same proportions.




It rather depends upon what happens to the speed of light.

If light speeds up correspondingly (or time slows down), then you're stuck; but if the speed of light remains the same, and time remains the same, then you can measure the transit time for light across the radius of the ball.

Ofcourse, the question you then have to ask yourself is whether the ball has gotten bigger, or light slowed down, or time sped up I don't think you could differentiate those outcomes.
« Last Edit: 24/12/2005 05:39:46 by another_someone »
 

Offline Solvay_1927

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Re: The scale of things.
« Reply #10 on: 24/12/2005 17:50:08 »
Good point, another someone, hadn't thought of that.
 

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Re: The scale of things.
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