# The Naked Scientists Forum

### Author Topic: What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?  (Read 21955 times)

#### UndergroundRisingUnited

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• Posts: 40
##### What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« on: 11/05/2010 19:19:15 »
if matter is energy at a slow vibration, what happens with no vibration?
would matter not vibrating be super dense?
can vibration replace dark matter in equations?
« Last Edit: 12/05/2010 09:29:54 by JP »

#### Soul Surfer

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• keep banging the rocks together
##### Re: What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #1 on: 11/05/2010 19:41:42 »
I do not know about the slow vibration that you mention maybe you could add a reference.  Matter is localised energy that does not need to travel at the speed of light. Matter has a wavelength that depends on its momentum this wavelength first defined and proved by deBroglie (q.v.) describes how precisely it can be localised and in theory becomes zero if the momentum is zero

#### UndergroundRisingUnited

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##### Re: What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #2 on: 11/05/2010 23:04:23 »
light for instance, travels as both particles and waves, so it can not mean matter only travels in wave lengths, matter is condensed energy, its density determines its vibration i.e. wavelength.  its vibration that produces these waves, ok. what you describe sounds like newton laws of force.

#### JP

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##### Re: What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #3 on: 12/05/2010 09:28:51 »
I noticed you posted the same topic again in the New Theories section of the site: http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=31521.0

In order to consolidate things, I'm going to delete the thread in the New Theories section for now, since it has zero replies.  Would you rather keep this thread in the Physics and Astronomy forum or move it to the New Theories forum?  (This forum is applicable if you want to discuss what mainstream physics says about your question, whereas the New Theories section is useful if you want to propose a theory outside of the mainstream.)

I've also rephrased your title in the form of a question, as is forum policy.  You're free to change it if you prefer a different question.

Cheers,
JP (moderator)
« Last Edit: 12/05/2010 09:30:33 by JP »

#### UndergroundRisingUnited

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 40
##### What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #4 on: 12/05/2010 16:58:33 »
I noticed you posted the same topic again in the New Theories section of the site: http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=31521.0

In order to consolidate things, I'm going to delete the thread in the New Theories section for now, since it has zero replies.  Would you rather keep this thread in the Physics and Astronomy forum or move it to the New Theories forum?  (This forum is applicable if you want to discuss what mainstream physics says about your question, whereas the New Theories section is useful if you want to propose a theory outside of the mainstream.)

I've also rephrased your title in the form of a question, as is forum policy.  You're free to change it if you prefer a different question.

Cheers,
JP (moderator)
ok no problem, posted twice looking for answers. thanks

#### Soul Surfer

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• keep banging the rocks together
##### What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #5 on: 13/05/2010 00:10:18 »
URU

quote

light for instance, travels as both particles and waves, so it can not mean matter only travels in wave lengths, matter is condensed energy, its density determines its vibration i.e. wavelength.  its vibration that produces these waves, ok. what you describe sounds like newton laws of force.

unquote

agreed light is both particles and waves as described.  the rest is rubbish. matter wave as described by de Broglie have nothing to do with physical vibrations  see  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matter_wave for a full description of wavelength and frequency.  all this is thoroughly proved experimentally.

#### UndergroundRisingUnited

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##### What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #6 on: 13/05/2010 01:45:00 »
URU

quote

light for instance, travels as both particles and waves, so it can not mean matter only travels in wave lengths, matter is condensed energy, its density determines its vibration i.e. wavelength.  its vibration that produces these waves, ok. what you describe sounds like newton laws of force.

unquote

agreed light is both particles and waves as described.  the rest is rubbish. matter wave as described by de Broglie have nothing to do with physical vibrations  see  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matter_wave [nofollow] for a full description of wavelength and frequency.  all this is thoroughly proved experimentally.

i think i confused you:
forgetting about light....Matter it self is composed of atoms, atoms are energy. particles make up atoms and when you smash atoms together you get energy and particles. (e=mc2)
So if matter is composed of atoms, there is the empty space in between the nucleus and the electrons orbiting the nucleus.
This causes the slow vibration which emits wavelengths all depending on density.
If there is no space no vibration i theorize, super dense matter.
LIKE THE SINGULARITY

#### Geezer

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##### What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #7 on: 13/05/2010 07:41:30 »

atoms are energy

How true. As Woody Allen put it, "It's like anything else."

#### JP

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##### What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #8 on: 13/05/2010 08:41:16 »
You're wrong about density defining the quantum vibration of particles, so the rest of your claim doesn't hold.  Vibration isn't a very precise term to use, but basically a quantum particle acts like a wave, and the amount of wiggle in that wave is what I think you mean by vibration.  In that case, the vibration is defined by the momentum and energy of the particle, not density.

Quote
If matter is energy at a slow vibration, what happens with no vibration?
Matter isn't energy with a slow vibration.  Furthermore, there is no such thing as matter that isn't vibrating, since even particles with the least possible energy still vibrate.

Quote
would matter not vibrating be super dense?
No.  Matter can't stop vibrating.  Also, even if it's vibrating slowly, that doesn't mean that it's super dense.

Quote
can vibration replace dark matter in equations?
Vibration is a property of matter.  Dark matter is matter that we can't see.  The two are different physical things, so they can't be interchanged in equations.  I think what you mean to ask is if dark matter could be explained as regular matter that's just vibrating slowly.  The answer is basically no.  There are a lot of properties that dark matter needs to satisfy: it needs to not emit electromagnetic waves and it has to have other properties which match observations of the universe.  Some of it could be slowly-vibrating matter, but that alone isn't enough of a description to define dark matter.

It sounds like the kind of matter you're describing falls within the idea of cold dark matter.  If you wanted to read up on it, you could check the wiki link here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_dark_matter

#### UndergroundRisingUnited

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 40
##### What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #9 on: 13/05/2010 09:52:43 »
You're wrong about density defining the quantum vibration of particles, so the rest of your claim doesn't hold.  Vibration isn't a very precise term to use, but basically a quantum particle acts like a wave, and the amount of wiggle in that wave is what I think you mean by vibration.  In that case, the vibration is defined by the momentum and energy of the particle, not density.

Quote
If matter is energy at a slow vibration, what happens with no vibration?
Matter isn't energy with a slow vibration.  Furthermore, there is no such thing as matter that isn't vibrating, since even particles with the least possible energy still vibrate.

Quote
would matter not vibrating be super dense?
No.  Matter can't stop vibrating.  Also, even if it's vibrating slowly, that doesn't mean that it's super dense.

Quote
can vibration replace dark matter in equations?
Vibration is a property of matter.  Dark matter is matter that we can't see.  The two are different physical things, so they can't be interchanged in equations.  I think what you mean to ask is if dark matter could be explained as regular matter that's just vibrating slowly.  The answer is basically no.  There are a lot of properties that dark matter needs to satisfy: it needs to not emit electromagnetic waves and it has to have other properties which match observations of the universe.  Some of it could be slowly-vibrating matter, but that alone isn't enough of a description to define dark matter.

It sounds like the kind of matter you're describing falls within the idea of cold dark matter.  If you wanted to read up on it, you could check the wiki link here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_dark_matter [nofollow]
THE PROOF IS EASY TO EXPERIMENT...
ALL MATTER HAS A RESONATE VIBRATION, LIKE A SINGER BREAKING A GLASS, AT RIGHT FREQUENCY THE MASS LONGER CAN CONTAIN ITS STATE.
LET ME KNOW IF YOU NEED ME TO BE ANY MORE CLEAR, AND BEFORE YOU SAY NO, LOOK FOR PROOF OR EXPERIMENT YOURSELF.
YOU ARE NOT HELPING OTHER WISE.
IF DARK MATTER IS MATTER WE CANT SEE EXPLAIN WHY WE SEE ANYTHING, WE SEE A SHORT SPAN OF THE LIGHT SPECTRUM (IN BETWEEN ULTRA AND INFRA),
IF DARK MATTER IS JUST MATTER THAT CANT BE SEEN THEN ONE COULD SEE IT IN XRAY OR INFRA RED, THE FACT WE CANT SEE IT IN ANY SPECTRUM IS PROOF THERE IS MORE TO IT THAN JUST MATTER WE CAN NOT SEE.
EVERYTHING IS ENERGY

(Matter isn't energy with a slow vibration.  Furthermore, there is no such thing as matter that isn't vibrating, since even particles with the least possible energy still vibrate.) THIS CONTRADICTS IT SELF FOR EXAMPLE...

#### UndergroundRisingUnited

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 40
##### What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #10 on: 13/05/2010 10:00:24 »
since even particles with the least possible energy still vibrate.

THEY EMIT SOUND WAVES VIBRATING,
THE DENSITY OF THE MASS DETERMINES THE FREQUENCY.
MANY BODIES OF MASS CONTAIN MULTIPLE ELEMENTS.
THE ELEMENT ALONE IN MASS, IS A MASS AS FAR AS DENSITY OR ATOMIC WEIGHT.

#### JP

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##### What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #11 on: 13/05/2010 10:32:28 »
It's not that you're being unclear.  It's that you're claiming things to be facts which have no evidence to support them or flat out contradict experiments.  Soul Surfer and I have tried to point out where your theory has errors, but you don't seem to want to discuss them.  Therefore, I'm moving this topic to the "New Theories" board.

-JP (moderator)

#### UndergroundRisingUnited

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 40
##### What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #12 on: 13/05/2010 18:12:36 »
It's not that you're being unclear.  It's that you're claiming things to be facts which have no evidence to support them or flat out contradict experiments.  Soul Surfer and I have tried to point out where your theory has errors, but you don't seem to want to discuss them.  Therefore, I'm moving this topic to the "New Theories" board.

-JP (moderator)
Always open for discussion, which facts dont you believe what experiments have been contradicted?

#### UndergroundRisingUnited

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 40
##### What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #13 on: 13/05/2010 19:35:51 »

atoms are energy

How true. As Woody Allen put it, "It's like anything else."
play with this one in your mind;
1+1=1

#### Geezer

• Neilep Level Member
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• "Vive la résistance!"
##### What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #14 on: 13/05/2010 19:42:48 »

#### UndergroundRisingUnited

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 40
##### What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #15 on: 13/05/2010 22:18:43 »

1+1=1

1+1=10
.... 1 apple + 1 apple = all part of the same vast cloud we call the universe.
everything is connected, everything is one thing.

#### Geezer

• Neilep Level Member
• Posts: 8328
• "Vive la résistance!"
##### What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #16 on: 13/05/2010 23:53:43 »
10+10=100

#### UndergroundRisingUnited

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• Posts: 40
##### What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #17 on: 15/05/2010 02:33:21 »
?????Waiting to continue topic????

#### UndergroundRisingUnited

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 40
##### What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #18 on: 15/05/2010 19:26:32 »
if this theory works it is a way to describe everything, yet as always yields only more questions as the branches of thought lead to the trunk of truth.
Dark matter is the variable of gravity from dark matter, there really is no such thing it is a made up phrase to describe why the universe does not fall apart, for gravity is not sufficient to hold it all together.
In computer models of a galaxy, the entire entity falls apart with out the addition of the variable of gravity from dark matter.

So if instead of gravity from dark matter that makes things coalesce, perhaps it is their frequency.
And if matter is condensed it heats (star), if there is a large enough mass of matter perhaps gravity will condense it to a point where it can longer heat and at 0 kelvin become super dense matter (the stuff in the middle of black holes.)
And if the big bang is supposed to be super dense matter exploding into what we know now, then where did it explode?

#### JP

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##### What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #19 on: 16/05/2010 04:34:55 »
I don't think you'll get a lot of response to your theory because you're not basing it on science.  It's not really worth debating the scientific merits of a new theory when it doesn't have a basis in science.

It's true that dark matter is a big question in current theories, but if you want to replace current theories with a new one, it has to (a) agree with current observations and (b) predict or explain something unknown.  Predicting and explaining generally also means needing equations and quantitative values.

Since you asked, here are a few problems with what you're saying:
Quote
ALL MATTER HAS A RESONATE VIBRATION, LIKE A SINGER BREAKING A GLASS, AT RIGHT FREQUENCY THE MASS LONGER CAN CONTAIN ITS STATE.
There's no evidence for this.

Quote
LET ME KNOW IF YOU NEED ME TO BE ANY MORE CLEAR, AND BEFORE YOU SAY NO, LOOK FOR PROOF OR EXPERIMENT YOURSELF.
Science doesn't work by assuming you're right until someone else disproves it.  You need to provide the proof if you want your ideas to be accepted.

Quote
IF DARK MATTER IS MATTER WE CANT SEE EXPLAIN WHY WE SEE ANYTHING, WE SEE A SHORT SPAN OF THE LIGHT SPECTRUM (IN BETWEEN ULTRA AND INFRA),
IF DARK MATTER IS JUST MATTER THAT CANT BE SEEN THEN ONE COULD SEE IT IN XRAY OR INFRA RED, THE FACT WE CANT SEE IT IN ANY SPECTRUM IS PROOF THERE IS MORE TO IT THAN JUST MATTER WE CAN NOT SEE.
EVERYTHING IS ENERGY
"See" is just a term that's used to mean that we can't observe it in any range of the electromagnetic spectrum, be that light, radio waves, infra red, etc.

Quote
THEY EMIT SOUND WAVES VIBRATING,
No, they don't.  You can't emit sound in space, for example.

#### UndergroundRisingUnited

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 40
##### What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #20 on: 16/05/2010 08:00:20 »
I don't think you'll get a lot of response to your theory because you're not basing it on science.  It's not really worth debating the scientific merits of a new theory when it doesn't have a basis in science.

It's true that dark matter is a big question in current theories, but if you want to replace current theories with a new one, it has to (a) agree with current observations and (b) predict or explain something unknown.  Predicting and explaining generally also means needing equations and quantitative values.

Since you asked, here are a few problems with what you're saying:
Quote
ALL MATTER HAS A RESONATE VIBRATION, LIKE A SINGER BREAKING A GLASS, AT RIGHT FREQUENCY THE MASS LONGER CAN CONTAIN ITS STATE.
There's no evidence for this.

Quote
LET ME KNOW IF YOU NEED ME TO BE ANY MORE CLEAR, AND BEFORE YOU SAY NO, LOOK FOR PROOF OR EXPERIMENT YOURSELF.
Science doesn't work by assuming you're right until someone else disproves it.  You need to provide the proof if you want your ideas to be accepted.

Quote
IF DARK MATTER IS MATTER WE CANT SEE EXPLAIN WHY WE SEE ANYTHING, WE SEE A SHORT SPAN OF THE LIGHT SPECTRUM (IN BETWEEN ULTRA AND INFRA),
IF DARK MATTER IS JUST MATTER THAT CANT BE SEEN THEN ONE COULD SEE IT IN XRAY OR INFRA RED, THE FACT WE CANT SEE IT IN ANY SPECTRUM IS PROOF THERE IS MORE TO IT THAN JUST MATTER WE CAN NOT SEE.
EVERYTHING IS ENERGY
"See" is just a term that's used to mean that we can't observe it in any range of the electromagnetic spectrum, be that light, radio waves, infra red, etc.

Quote
THEY EMIT SOUND WAVES VIBRATING,
No, they don't.  You can't emit sound in space, for example.
Your arguments are a joke, if you are just going to say no to everything said, you mite as well believe the sun revolves around the earth.
study your facts before you make claims.
Quote
ALL MATTER HAS A RESONATE VIBRATION, LIKE A SINGER BREAKING A GLASS, AT RIGHT FREQUENCY THE MASS LONGER CAN CONTAIN ITS STATE.
There's no evidence for this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonance#Atomic.2C_particle.2C_and_molecular_resonance [nofollow]

....you can hear the sounds of space in the static....

("Science doesn't work by assuming you're right until someone else disproves it") This is exactly how science works Einstein.

#### UndergroundRisingUnited

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 40
##### What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #21 on: 16/05/2010 20:10:47 »
if matter is energy at a slow vibration, what happens with no vibration?
would matter not vibrating be super dense?
can vibration replace dark matter in equations?
can vibration replace dark matter in equations?
can vibration explain why gravity seems so weak?

Dark matter does not define any thing except that gravity alone can not hold the universe together.

Can vibration/oscillation explain the behavior of quantum particles, and can resonate vibration be partially responsible for the coalescence of matter?

#### Bored chemist

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##### What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #22 on: 17/05/2010 06:56:58 »
Are we feeding a troll here?

#### UndergroundRisingUnited

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 40
##### What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #23 on: 17/05/2010 19:09:31 »
I simply asked a question looking for intelligent discussion, to find an answer.
The answers I am seeing seem to make more of an effort to humiliate than to teach or learn.
All of the argument received so far, have been made with false claims so easily disputed they waste every ones time?
It is to the find truth I ask.

#### UndergroundRisingUnited

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 40
##### What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #24 on: 17/05/2010 19:10:23 »
1.I don't think you'll get a lot of response to your theory because you're not basing it on science.  It's not really worth debating the scientific merits of a new theory when it doesn't have a basis in science.

THIS THEORY, QUESTION IS OBVIOUSLY BASED IN SCIENCE, SHOULD I ASK A CHEF?

2.It's true that dark matter is a big question in current theories, but if you want to replace current theories with a new one, it has to (a) agree with current observations and (b) predict or explain something unknown.  Predicting and explaining generally also means needing equations and quantitative values.

AGAIN DARK MATTER IS ONLY A VARIABLE.

3.There's no evidence for this.

MRI FOR ANOTHER EXAMPLE

4."See" is just a term that's used to mean that we can't observe it in any range of the electromagnetic spectrum, be that light, radio waves, infra red, etc.

AGAIN DARK MATTER IS ONLY A VARIABLE, YOU CAN ONLY SEE A VARIABLE ON PAPER.

5."Furthermore, there is no such thing as matter that isn't vibrating, since even particles with the least possible energy still vibrate."

YOUR CLAIM IS FALSE.  THE PROOF IS HERE.

"At the very lowest temperature possible—Absolute Zero (0 degrees Kelvin or 0o K)—all motion stops and the atoms and molecules do not vibrate or even spin."
http://www.school-for-champions.com/science/matter_states.htm [nofollow]

#### The Naked Scientists Forum

##### What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #24 on: 17/05/2010 19:10:23 »